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Aerys and Wildfire? How likely?


AlaskanSandman
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34 minutes ago, AlaskanSandman said:

 

 
There is also the issue of Barristan not thinking Aerys would burn the Yunkishmen instead of cutting him down. Barristan served Aerys and knew him longer than Jamie. 
 

Sorry, I don't see the point of the argument. 

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12 minutes ago, LynnS said:

Sorry, I don't see the point of the argument. 

Thought it was evident but Barristan not thinking of Aerys as handling people by burning them alive is a better tell of character than Jamie. If Barristan knew Aerys was burning people alive, he would think as much when wondering what Aerys would do. Yandel tells us for 2 years Aerys was burning people and obsessed with fire.

 

Plus, like I said, you have the Starks, who never once think of cruel Aerys burning Rickard. 

 

The only sources for this are coming from Lannisters and Yandel who is writing for the Lannisters.

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1 minute ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Thought it was evident but Barristan not thinking of Aerys as handling people by burning them alive is a better tell of character than Jamie. If Barristan knew Aerys was burning people alive, he would think as much when wondering what Aerys would do. Yandel tells us for 2 years Aerys was burning people and obsessed with fire.

Jaimie may be a soiled knight but I don't think he has any reason to give a false account.  Barristan knew that Aerys was mad and he's somewhat reluctant to discuss that with Dany.  Initially, he watches her for signs of madness. I don't think Barristan is necessarily a more reliable narrator in this case.

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1 minute ago, LynnS said:

Jaimie may be a soiled knight but I don't think he has any reason to give a false account.  Barristan knew that Aerys was mad and he's somewhat reluctant to discuss that with Dany.  Initially, he watches her for signs of madness. I don't think Barristan is necessarily a more reliable narrator in this case.

He's not discussing it with Dany though. He's contemplating it to himself in his head. He can be as honest as he wants or memory allows.

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20 minutes ago, LynnS said:

Ok I'll take this as the last word on it.

You're welcome to disagree of course. Just didn't convince me with that. If it was Tywin's plan, then Jamie would have as much reason to give a false account as he would about the Red Wedding. Would Jamie go telling everyone that it was the Lannisters and not House Frey that committed that act of sacrilege? Does Jamie tell people he's banging his sister? Jamie is steeped to his eye balls in lies, so him not having a reason to lie doesn't run concurrent with his life thus far. Would Jamie tell the 7 Kingdoms he pushed Bran from a tower and crippled him for catching him banging his sister?  Did Jamie not lie to Tyrion about his wife actually loving him? So his father could humiliate Tyrion by having him watch his wife raped. 

 

Where as Barristan's worse lie is pretending to be an old beggar to protect Dany and Aerys II.

 

Im not sure its even comparable who is a more reliable person. 

 

Edit- Sorry, Barristan did keep Lewyn Martells paramour a secret for him. So he did lie there, or in his mind, not lie, but just didn't say anything.

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19 minutes ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Im not sure its even comparable who is a more reliable person. 

You want to make it about Jaime's character.  I think the argument has become worn out and it's a minor difference in how we perceive the character.   I don't think it's worth the time to rag the puck any further.  We are not going to get anywhere else on it.  Time to let it go. :cheers:

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1 minute ago, LynnS said:

You want to make it about Jaime's character.  I think the argument has become worn out and it's a minor difference in how we perceive the character.   I don't think it's worth the time to rag the puck any further.  We are not going to get anywhere else on it.  Time to let it go. :cheers:

Well of course I do, that's why I started the thread to question the narrative of Aerys. As the Lannisters are likely behind most stuff. 

They certainly helped start the Dance of Dragons and were on the side of the Greens. 

 

You're most certainly welcome to disagree and not respond. Its my thread though and theory, so its what im here for :)

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6 hours ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Yet Cat, Ned, Rob, Sansa, or Jon never think of or mention cruel Aerys burning Rickard alive while Brandon watched and was hung. For such a cruel act, the Starks are pretty careless about the Targaryen's. 

I think this mostly has to do with Ned, who was clearly traumatized by the tragedies inflicted upon his family. He just didn't want to talk or think about the Rebellion very much, especially not about Rickard, Brandon or Lyanna's role in it. It is just too painful for him. He spent the next decade hiding in the North, as far away from Kings Landing as he could get. From there, it does follow that Ned's children don't think about these incidents much, because they hardly know anything about them. Even Catalyn didn't find out what happened to Brandon until her talk with Jaime. It seems to me like Ned just never wanted to talk to anyone about what happened to his family, an understandable and human impulse.

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4 hours ago, Nathan Stark said:

I think this mostly has to do with Ned, who was clearly traumatized by the tragedies inflicted upon his family. He just didn't want to talk or think about the Rebellion very much, especially not about Rickard, Brandon or Lyanna's role in it. It is just too painful for him. He spent the next decade hiding in the North, as far away from Kings Landing as he could get. From there, it does follow that Ned's children don't think about these incidents much, because they hardly know anything about them. Even Catalyn didn't find out what happened to Brandon until her talk with Jaime. It seems to me like Ned just never wanted to talk to anyone about what happened to his family, an understandable and human impulse.

That is the best logic for that one in going against Jamie and the Lannister's lying.

My case wasn't built on that sole bit though. There is Barristan not thinking about Aerys burning people, or him handling the Yunkish by cutting them down. Which would fit Bran's beheading report, and reports from Yandel at the start, before Yandel claims he switched in 280ac. 

There is also the fact that all accounts of Aerys burning people only come from Lannisters and Yandel who writes in favor of House Lannister and never depicts them badly. 

You can also compare it to how Tywin handles Rob. He uses the opportunity of Jeyne Westerling to sow discord between Rob and House Frey. Losing him men, and eventually his life. Jeynes parents were poisoning her so she couldn't have kids. 

Yet, the in world history will record Rob as a usurper who broke oaths and got killed for it by the Frey's. 

Tywin is very much the sneaky type, and he had been slighted many times by Aerys. Tywin is also the only one who got what he wanted out of the War. Cersei married to the King. Aerys and Rhaegar and what ever they wanted died with them, Ned and Robert never got Lyanna back, and lost Rickard and Brandon in the process. Tywin, who seemingly just sat at a war, against the guy who had slighted him repeatedly. Aerys may even be Tyrion's kid, with those mismatched eyes. Or maybe not. Thats a theory someone long ago put out there. 

This is still a new theory though so im feeling it out and checking for more info. Im thinking about doing a bigger one covering Aerys and Tywin, and the Freecities. As I believe they were both tied up in affairs in Essos, that are playing out currently in the story with the slave trade. 

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On 12/11/2021 at 10:41 PM, AlaskanSandman said:

How likely is it that Wildfire wouldn't burn the Throne Room to the ground?

Wildfire doesn't literally burn forever. The Blackwater is not still on fire. So the question would be how much wildfire can you burn in the throne room without destroying everything.

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Too costly, yet Aerys left the treasury flowing with gold. Who paid for all that WIldfire?
 

GRRM can't math.

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How did they control the fire to only burn Rickard, and not the floor, roof, and everything around it?

Does stone also burn? And the fire doesn't have to be high enough to reach the roof, just to reach Rickard. He himself was not said to have been engulfed in flames and on fire, instead he was cooked inside his armor.

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Is this just a Lannister narrative repeated by Yandel? Or is there truth to it?

Jaime was an eyewitness, and in his POV chapters we get no indication he was lying about that

On 12/11/2021 at 11:10 PM, AlaskanSandman said:

When thinking of how Aerys would handle a situation. He says Aerys would be horrified and them cut to pieces. Not burned alive, cut to pieces.

Come on. Swordsmen cut down people in battles, and Robert killed his enemies via a warhammer in battle. Executions happen for people who are already prisoners (and would be carried out by the King's Justice, not Robert), which the Yunkish referred to here are not.

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Jamie, a renowned liar bedding his sister.

He's already admitted to that by the time of A Storm of Swords.

On 12/13/2021 at 7:40 AM, AlaskanSandman said:

 

There is also the issue of Barristan not thinking Aerys would burn the Yunkishmen instead of cutting him down.
 

Which I've just explained is a poor argument.

On 12/13/2021 at 8:49 AM, AlaskanSandman said:

Does Jamie tell people he's banging his sister?

Yes, he confessed it to Cat & Brienne (the latter of which hears the story of Aerys burning Rickard), and then later to Ilyn Payne. He wants to tell all of Westeros, claim Cersei's children as his own, and openly marry her like a Targaryen.

On 12/13/2021 at 9:16 AM, AlaskanSandman said:

They certainly helped start the Dance of Dragons and were on the side of the Greens.

They were on the side of the Greens, but I don't think can be blamed for starting the Dance. All but one of the Great Council went along with the Greens. The Hightowers were the main instigating force, with Criston Cole also drawing first blood (I don't believe Beesbury died in a dungeon).

 

17 hours ago, AlaskanSandman said:

There is Barristan not thinking about Aerys burning people, or him handling the Yunkish by cutting them down. Which would fit Bran's beheading report

Beheading people is not referred to as "cutting down". Normally a person being beheaded already has their body lowered so the axe can descend rather than having to cut horizontally.

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3 hours ago, FictionIsntReal said:

Wildfire doesn't literally burn forever. The Blackwater is not still on fire. So the question would be how much wildfire can you burn in the throne room without destroying everything.

GRRM can't math.

Does stone also burn? And the fire doesn't have to be high enough to reach the roof, just to reach Rickard. He himself was not said to have been engulfed in flames and on fire, instead he was cooked inside his armor.

Jaime was an eyewitness, and in his POV chapters we get no indication he was lying about that

Come on. Swordsmen cut down people in battles, and Robert killed his enemies via a warhammer in battle. Executions happen for people who are already prisoners (and would be carried out by the King's Justice, not Robert), which the Yunkish referred to here are not.

He's already admitted to that by the time of A Storm of Swords.

Which I've just explained is a poor argument.

Yes, he confessed it to Cat & Brienne (the latter of which hears the story of Aerys burning Rickard), and then later to Ilyn Payne. He wants to tell all of Westeros, claim Cersei's children as his own, and openly marry her like a Targaryen.

They were on the side of the Greens, but I don't think can be blamed for starting the Dance. All but one of the Great Council went along with the Greens. The Hightowers were the main instigating force, with Criston Cole also drawing first blood (I don't believe Beesbury died in a dungeon).

 

Beheading people is not referred to as "cutting down". Normally a person being beheaded already has their body lowered so the axe can descend rather than having to cut horizontally.

1. Its described as not easily being put out and has to typically burn it self out. Obviously fires don't burn forever

2. That's funny. Debateable though

3. Its described as seeping into metal, which is less porous than metal, so yes. It would burn too. 

4. Other than the indication that Jamie is a liar by character, just like the rest of his family. Jamie also doesn't think about Tysha being really in love with Tyrion and what a jerk Jamie and his father is. Instead he thinks of Cersei boning Kettleblack or who ever. People backing Jamie just makes me laugh. I wonder if Hitler saved some folks, if it would wipe out his life time of bad deeds.

5. And what? He's thinking about how he should handle the Yunkish who just sent back the envoy's head in response. What prisoner are you talking about? He's talking about Ordering him cut down, not cutting him down himself. No one claimed Aerys or Robert executed their own prisoners. Aery's doesn't demand them burned, he would demand them cut down. Its a show of character from Barristan's pov about the king he knew. Aerys II, who he never once thinks about burning anyone alive. Prisoners, enemies on the field, or anything.

6. No Jamie has not publicly admitted to that. That is way false. Admitting to one or two people is hardly coming clean to the Realm. Not even remotely close.

7. You tried.

8. Please, again, he tells 3 people and you assume he would tell the realm, and that the realm would except it. Ha. He has no dragons to cow the Septons and the Faith. It aint happening. 

9. No House Lannister didn't stoke the Dance of Dragons at all....sure.

 

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The Dance of the Dragons

On the night of the death of King Viserys I Targaryen, Tyland gathered with the other members of the small council in Queen Alicent Hightower's chambers. There, they discussed the succession until dawn. During the meeting, Tyland pointed out that many of the lords who had sworn to defend the succession of Princess Rhaenyra back in 105 AC were long dead. He remarked that it had been twenty-four years, and that he himself swore no such oath, as he had been a child at the time.[2][7]

At the start of the Dance of the Dragons Ser Tyland was named master of coin by Dowager Queen Alicent Hightower. Upon his appointment, Tyland acted at once to seize the royal treasury. The crown's gold was divided into four parts. One part was entrusted to the care of the Iron Bank of Braavos for safekeeping, another sent to Casterly Rock and a third to Oldtown. The remaining wealth was used by the greens for bribes and gifts and hiring sellswords.[2][7]

 

 

 

10. We're not talking about cutting down people as being beheading people. We're talking about them being the same as far as using blades to end someone, rather than burning them alive. Why didn't Aerys just fling wildfire from pots or use it some other way as Tyrion did. He never once does. 

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4 hours ago, FictionIsntReal said:

Yes, he confessed it to Cat & Brienne (the latter of which hears the story of Aerys burning Rickard), and then later to Ilyn Payne. He wants to tell all of Westeros, claim Cersei's children as his own, and openly marry her like a Targaryen.

This would be wonderful for the High Sparrow who would love nothing more than for Jamie to come clean to the realm (Which he obviously hasn't done as thats what the High Sparrow wants), So he can kill Jamie and Cersei. Or just strip them of their thrones and titles and what not and make them part of the faith.

 

Is Jamie really that stupid? 

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2 hours ago, AlaskanSandman said:

1. Its described as not easily being put out and has to typically burn it self out. Obviously fires don't burn forever

Is that incompatible with burning Rickard Stark? And I don't know whether it was with wildfire or regular fire, I just don't think it was infeasible to use wildfire.

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2. That's funny. Debateable though

There is abundant evidence that numbers aren't his strong suit (I'm not good at numberical estimation either):
https://nobodysuspectsthebutterfly.tumblr.com/tagged/grrm%20can't%20math
Regarding the treasury being full under Aerys but empty under Robert, the expenditures attributed to Robert just can't explain it. Hence theories that Littlefinger must be responsible for the huge gap in funds.
https://racefortheironthrone.wordpress.com/2017/08/28/by-popular-demand-who-stole-westeros/

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3. Its described as seeping into metal, which is less porous than metal

I assume you meant to write that metal is less porous than stone.

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4. Other than the indication that Jamie is a liar by character, just like the rest of his family. Jamie also doesn't think about Tysha being really in love with Tyrion and what a jerk Jamie and his father is.

Jaime is more stupid than dishonest, particularly compared to his family. And Jaime didn't really know Tysha, he just accepted Tywin's account that Tysha as a commoner was basically just a whore latching onto Tyrion.

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People backing Jamie just makes me laugh. I wonder if Hitler saved some folks, if it would wipe out his life time of bad deeds.

This is ironic, because I'm usually anti-Jaime. He's never done anything to redeem himself from his attempted murder of Bran, or his attacking Ned Stark's men in King's Landing. The latter bit makes me roll my eyes at his later claim that he would never send an assassin after Bran rather than doing the killing himself, regarding it as a retcon and the reveal of Joffrey as the culprit to be nonsensical. My point is just that he was an eyewitness to Aerys, and nothing from his POV chapters indicates he lied to Brienne about Aerys.

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5. And what? He's thinking about how he should handle the Yunkish who just sent back the envoy's head in response.

Yes, who are not prisoners and are capable of killing people (like the envoy).

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What prisoner are you talking about?

BRANDON AND RICKARD STARK! Also, Qarlton Chelsted was burned alive (around the time Dany was conceived).

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He's talking about Ordering him cut down, not cutting him down himself. No one claimed Aerys or Robert executed their own prisoners.

Your quote refers to Robert taking up his warhammer! That's for personally enacting violence!

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Aery's doesn't demand them burned, he would demand them cut down.

He would demand PRISONERS burned and ENEMIES IN THE FIELD cut down.

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Its a show of character from Barristan's pov about the king he knew. Aerys II, who he never once thinks about burning anyone alive. Prisoners, enemies on the field, or anything.

Where does Barristan's POV tell us what Aerys would do with PRISONERS?

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6. No Jamie has not publicly admitted to that.

You asked if he tells "people". Cat, Brienne & Ilyn Payne qualify as "people". Jaime WANTS to publicly admit it, but Cersei stops him.

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he tells 3 people and you assume he would tell the realm, and that the realm would except it.

 

Where did I say I thought the realm would accept (not "except") it?

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9. No House Lannister didn't stoke the Dance of Dragons at all....sure.

I provided an argument for why the Lannisters were not responsible for the Dance, you provided no argument for why they were. You didn't try. And then in reply you provided evidence that Tyland acted ably in his capacity as Master of Coin (something he also did under Aegon III).

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10. We're not talking about cutting down people as being beheading people.

WE aren't but YOU are. You said the line about cutting the Yunkish down supports Bran's thought of Aerys having a prisoner beheaded, even though the Yunkish aren't prisoners and would react with violence if someone tried to behead them.

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Why didn't Aerys just fling wildfire from pots or use it some other way as Tyrion did. He never once does. 

What are you talking about? Aerys never faced a naval attack like Tyrion did. The army at his gates was Tywin's... and Aerys let him as his salvation rather than his enemy. We know from Tyrion that Aerys REALLY DID stash wildfire underneath King's Landing, just as Jaime indicated.

1 hour ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Is Jamie really that stupid? 

Basically.

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Cersei has the pyromancers burn the entire Tower of The Hand in AFFC, without it even getting to Maegor's Keep.   I'm not sure why pyromancers couldn't produce a wildfire execution in the giant throne room without burning the place down.  

This is from the wiki here:  

After the wedding feast of King Tommen I Baratheon and Margaery Tyrell is held in the Small Hall, Cersei leads the guests outside to watch as the pyromancers set the Tower of the Hand on fire. Fifty pots of wildfire placed inside the tower along with logs and casks of pitch are set alight. The Tower of the Hand is ruined. The greater part of Tyrion's possessions, which were still in the tower, are also destroyed.[1]

 

I admit, I hadn't noticed the lack of the word 'wildfire' in certain places when discussions and thoughts of Aery's burnings came up throughout the novels, but still, I wouldn't doubt that Aerys did use wildfire, too.  I would think the executions with the green goo is what lead to the idea of burning the whole city down with it, like a serial killer upping his game.  

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57 minutes ago, Lady Fevre Dream said:

Cersei has the pyromancers burn the entire Tower of The Hand in AFFC, without it even getting to Maegor's Keep.   I'm not sure why pyromancers couldn't produce a wildfire execution in the giant throne room without burning the place down.  

This is from the wiki here:  

After the wedding feast of King Tommen I Baratheon and Margaery Tyrell is held in the Small Hall, Cersei leads the guests outside to watch as the pyromancers set the Tower of the Hand on fire. Fifty pots of wildfire placed inside the tower along with logs and casks of pitch are set alight. The Tower of the Hand is ruined. The greater part of Tyrion's possessions, which were still in the tower, are also destroyed.[1]

 

I admit, I hadn't noticed the lack of the word 'wildfire' in certain places when discussions and thoughts of Aery's burnings came up throughout the novels, but still, I wouldn't doubt that Aerys did use wildfire, too.  I would think the executions with the green goo is what lead to the idea of burning the whole city down with it, like a serial killer upping his game.  

That definitely a great example of them doing a controlled burn, somewhat. The Tower was completely destroyed, and may sit on bedstone, unattached to the actual castle. Using in the castle might be a different story. Certainly a good point though. 

 

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On 12/11/2021 at 11:41 PM, AlaskanSandman said:

Is this just a Lannister narrative repeated by Yandel? Or is there truth to it? How likely is it not to burn the castle down? How did they control its burn?

He's crazy but lucid enough to avoid using the stuff inside the castle.  It's much too wild to use indoors.  It isn't called wild without reason. 

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2 hours ago, FictionIsntReal said:

 

 

2 hours ago, FictionIsntReal said:

 

 Is that incompatible with burning Rickard Stark? And I don't know whether it was with wildfire or regular fire, I just don't think it was infeasible to use wildfire.

Thats fair

There is abundant evidence that numbers aren't his strong suit (I'm not good at numberical estimation either):
https://nobodysuspectsthebutterfly.tumblr.com/tagged/grrm%20can't%20math
Regarding the treasury being full under Aerys but empty under Robert, the expenditures attributed to Robert just can't explain it. Hence theories that Littlefinger must be responsible for the huge gap in funds.
https://racefortheironthrone.wordpress.com/2017/08/28/by-popular-demand-who-stole-westeros/

It being empty under Robert and not Aerys though is an example of Peter's work, doesn't disprove Aerys being skimp with money and keeping the treasury full. We never hear of him spending money on anything, just plans that he never followed through with.

I assume you meant to write that metal is less porous than stone.

Typo is was meant to be an Its. Its more porous than metal, meaning the stone is porous and definitely absorb it and catch fire. Most definitely if a sword will.

Jaime is more stupid than dishonest, particularly compared to his family. And Jaime didn't really know Tysha, he just accepted Tywin's account that Tysha as a commoner was basically just a whore latching onto Tyrion.

Him not knowing would go against him confessing to Tryion. He knew 

This is ironic, because I'm usually anti-Jaime. He's never done anything to redeem himself from his attempted murder of Bran, or his attacking Ned Stark's men in King's Landing. The latter bit makes me roll my eyes at his later claim that he would never send an assassin after Bran rather than doing the killing himself, regarding it as a retcon and the reveal of Joffrey as the culprit to be nonsensical. My point is just that he was an eyewitness to Aerys, and nothing from his POV chapters indicates he lied to Brienne about Aerys.

 

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A Storm of Swords - Jaime V

"Gold armor?" Her voice sounded far off, faint.
He floated in heat, in memory. "After dancing griffins lost the Battle of the Bells, Aerys exiled him." Why am I telling this absurd ugly child? "He had finally realized that Robert was no mere outlaw lord to be crushed at whim, but the greatest threat House Targaryen had faced since Daemon Blackfyre. 

 

 
 
And yet, Jamie also recalls this, when he's not delusional from having his hand cut off and a fever. He also calls her an absurd ugly child and questions why he's bothering with his practiced lie, and yes, it is practiced. Later, Jamie thinks completely different than the story he told Brienne.
 

 

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A Feast for Crows - Jaime I

The day had been windy when he said farewell to Rhaegar, in the yard of the Red Keep. The prince had donned his night-black armor, with the three-headed dragon picked out in rubies on his breastplate. "Your Grace," Jaime had pleaded, "let Darry stay to guard the king this once, or Ser Barristan. Their cloaks are as white as mine."
Prince Rhaegar shook his head. "My royal sire fears your father more than he does our cousin Robert. He wants you close, so Lord Tywin cannot harm him. I dare not take that crutch away from him at such an hour."
Jaime's anger had risen up in his throat. "I am not a crutch. I am a knight of the Kingsguard."

 

 

So which is it? Is Aerys afraid of Robert as his greatest threat since the Blackfyres, or does he fear Tywin Lannister far more than he ever feared Robert Baratheon. This doesn't do well to prove Jamie as either honest, or a reliable narrator. He tells Brienne one thing, but literally thinks another. Its his practiced lie.

 

Yes, who are not prisoners and are capable of killing people (like the envoy).

Ok, that's nice and dandy, but we're not talking about they Yunkai's character in killing the Envoy. We're debating Barristan's thoughts on how Aerys would handle the Yunkai for killing his envoy.

BRANDON AND RICKARD STARK! Also, Qarlton Chelsted was burned alive (around the time Dany was conceived).

Hmm. Not sure why your yelling or using exclamation marks but ok. We we're talking about how Aery's would handle the Yankai, not his Stark captives. Hence the confusion.

Your quote refers to Robert taking up his warhammer! That's for personally enacting violence!

Umm, yes, we're not debating whether or not Aery's would use violence like cutting someone down. We're debating the likely hood of him actually burning people alive.

 

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History

Thoros was born in the Free City of Myr, the youngest of eight children, and he was given to a red temple of R'hllor at a young age. He earned his priesthood but was never overly pious due to his tastes for fighting, drinking, and women. Thoros was sent to King's Landing in hopes he could convert the fire-obsessed King Aerys II Targaryen, but he was unsuccessful and started to question his own faith.[2]

 

 

Aery's isn't interested in the Red Priest and their burning people alive. Not sure why he'd be so interested in Pyromancers.

He would demand PRISONERS burned and ENEMIES IN THE FIELD cut down.

Say's who?  Tryion uses wildfire to burn men in battle.

Where does Barristan's POV tell us what Aerys would do with PRISONERS?

He doens't, he thinks about the what he'd do the to Yunkai who killed his envoy. Its still a tell of his character imo.

You asked if he tells "people". Cat, Brienne & Ilyn Payne qualify as "people". Jaime WANTS to publicly admit it, but Cersei stops him.

 

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A Storm of Swords - Jaime IX

His sister fought back tears. "Jaime, you're my shining knight. You cannot abandon me when I need you most! He is stealing my son, sending me away . . . and unless you stop him, Father is going to force me to wed again!"

Jaime should not have been surprised, but he was. The words were a blow to his gut harder than any that Ser Addam Marbrand had dealt him. "Who?"
"Does it matter? Some lord or other. Someone Father thinks he needs. I don't care. I will not have another husband. You are the only man I want in my bed, ever again."
"Then tell him that!"
She pulled her hands away. "You are talking madness again. Would you have us ripped apart, as Mother did that time she caught us playing? Tommen would lose the throne, Myrcella her marriage . . . I want to be your wife, we belong to each other, but it can never be, Jaime. We are brother and sister."

 

 
No, that's not what happened. They are talking about telling his father so she wont have to marry someone else. You totally made that up lol telling their father who would keep it a secret to not lose the throne, is not the same as telling the realm. Even remotely.

Where did I say I thought the realm would accept (not "except") it?

What are you the grammar police? lol Jamie doesn't want to tell the realm, and the realm would not "Accept" it. Lol

I provided an argument for why the Lannisters were not responsible for the Dance, you provided no argument for why they were. You didn't try. And then in reply you provided evidence that Tyland acted ably in his capacity as Master of Coin (something he also did under Aegon III).

No you havn't, and yes i have.

 

WE aren't but YOU are. You said the line about cutting the Yunkish down supports Bran's thought of Aerys having a prisoner beheaded, even though the Yunkish aren't prisoners and would react with violence if someone tried to behead them.

No I said it supports the notion that Aery's didn't burn people. You're twisting words like you did with Jamie supposedly wanting to tell the realm but Cersei stopping him.

What are you talking about? Aerys never faced a naval attack like Tyrion did. The army at his gates was Tywin's... and Aerys let him as his salvation rather than his enemy. We know from Tyrion that Aerys REALLY DID stash wildfire underneath King's Landing, just as Jaime indicated.

For all we know Pycell stashed them on order of Tywin Lannister. And no one is saying Wildfire can only be used for naval battle. I said launching pots of it. Not setting the Blackwater on fire cause you poured Wildfire in it. Two separate strategies. 

Basically.

Basically, Jamie is not a reliable narrator and a known liar and murderer. Aery's may not have been burning anybody any more than he supposedly feared Robert as the greatest threat since the Blackfyres. 

Edited by AlaskanSandman
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