Targaryen Fathers evaluations: Best & Worst

[EggBlue]

in your opinion, who is the best dad among the Targaryen kings and princes? and who is the worst? why?

to me, as far as bringing up good children goes , Daemon Targaryen seems the obvious choice . as for worst, the first one who comes to mind might be Aegon IV but Jaeharys I was a terrible dad (especially to his daughters ) ,too. 

[Curled Finger]

Aegon V didn't force his kids to marry politically, but look at the mess that caused!  I agree, if the outcome proves the dad, Daemon had some great kids and step kids.  Kind of subjective question forces us to weigh and value what we personally think is important.  So my 1st thought was Aegon 5, damn the consequences.    Your mention of Jaehaerys is interesting--he was a misogynist in a time his sister wife wielded a great deal of power in her own right, not his shadow.  Still he caved to pressure and removed his daughters from the succession.   He paid dearly for that decision.   As king I would expect my children to behave as royalty.   I wouldn't like it if my daughter killed herself drunk horse racing or played spin the bottle with groups of boys beneath her station.  Of course, I wouldn't like losing my sons to stupid wars either.  Viserys loved Rhaenyra and made it well known she would succeed him, but was it the right thing to do?  Had Rhaenyra never known or expected rather, she could have the top spot, would the realm have bled the way it did?  Does that make Viserys a good or bad father--Hell, take that to good or bad king even.   Aegon IV was a pig, Aegon I was the most disinterested parent as many seemed to be.  Bet it's hard to be a royal child.  

Then there is poor Maegor who only wanted a son and heir.  

[EggBlue]

50 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

Aegon V didn't force his kids to marry politically, but look at the mess that caused!  I agree, if the outcome proves the dad, Daemon had some great kids and step kids.  Kind of subjective question forces us to weigh and value what we personally think is important.  So my 1st thought was Aegon 5, damn the consequences.    Your mention of Jaehaerys is interesting--he was a misogynist in a time his sister wife wielded a great deal of power in her own right, not his shadow.  Still he caved to pressure and removed his daughters from the succession.   He paid dearly for that decision.   As king I would expect my children to behave as royalty.   I wouldn't like it if my daughter killed herself drunk horse racing or played spin the bottle with groups of boys beneath her station.  Of course, I wouldn't like losing my sons to stupid wars either.  Viserys loved Rhaenyra and made it well known she would succeed him, but was it the right thing to do?  Had Rhaenyra never known or expected rather, she could have the top spot, would the realm have bled the way it did?  Does that make Viserys a good or bad father--Hell, take that to good or bad king even.   Aegon IV was a pig, Aegon I was the most disinterested parent as many seemed to be.  Bet it's hard to be a royal child.  

Then there is poor Maegor who only wanted a son and heir.  

ah , yes . Aegon V was a good father. he let his children find love in their own ways. he even accepted his gay son which is a big progress in that time. he was the king who literally had domestic bliss. and he could almost keep it together and have it all , at least for some time. ...now, the question of consequence goes for Viserys I too. he loved his daughter and he made it clear, he loved all his children and honestly , he might be the family man of the Targaryens... problem is he was never the King! as the King he failed to prove his heir's worth and position . he had the power to send his wife away and establish his daughter's position in his court better.. even try to mend the relationship between siblings, but he failed in that which actually makes it like he failed his children too . Jaeherys I ,on the other hand, was somewhat the opposite. he was just the king, not the father. he couldn't communicate his values to his daughters and punished them for it. and Aegon I just loved his 6 soil and water children way better than his 2 flesh and blood sons . ..  now that I think about it , Jaeherys II was a bad father too and you could even say a hypocrite one. also, it seems prince Viserys was so overwhelmed with helping his brother that he failed to see all his 3 children were unhappy with the marriage of the 2, not to mention he made Aegon IV. 

[Floki of the Ironborn]

There were NO good Targaryen fathers.

Aegon I picked favourites so that Aenys was a pushover and Maegor was a neglected monster. Both those guys turned out to be awful parents in different ways. Aenys might have been nice, but he failed to defend his kids and protect them. Maegor was an abomination, and possibly the result of his mom's eldritch experiments given how his "kids" all turned out.

As has been mentioned before, Jaehaerys was an awful dad when it came to his daughters, but don't forget that he preferred to ship his inconvenient son as far from the capital as possible when he wouldn't play ball and be the son he wanted.

Viserys was another weakling like Aenys. Too spineless to make sure his daughter would be recognised as the heir, and too dumb to realise that having more kids would screw her over.

Daemon Targaryen was, far as I can tell, an absentee dad. Anything good about his kids didn't come from him. He was a better father to Nettles than he was to any of his kids.

Given how his kids turned out, I'd say Aegon III ranks as a pretty awful dad. You've got the arrogant brat Daeron, the holy lunatic Baelor, and a girl who f***ed around and let the rest of Westeros find out the consequences: more than five generations of Blackfyres (thanks, Daena and Aegon IV). And since Aegon IV is included, let's also put Viserys II up there as a terrible father, given that he was so clueless that he married his daughter to the one brother she didn't love.

Daeron II, on the surface, seems like a decent enough dad, but aside from Baelor, his kids were comprised of an antisocial and selfish introvert, a madman who was allowed to breed children, and an egotistical douchebag who killed his own brother rather than admit he was himself a shitty dad.

Speaking of the egotistical douchebag, Maekar was such a bad father that even Dunk the Lunk calls him out on it and gets away with it. Only reason Aegon V turned out halfway decent was because Dunk wisely kept him far away from Summerhall.

Aegon V, well, he's already been covered above.

Jaehaerys II, a selfish asshole who only cared about screwing his own sister in yet another disgusting display of Targaryen incest. Which, it must be said, further tampered with the Targaryen gene pool and produced yet more lunacy into the world of Westeros.

Which brings us to Aerys II, the Mad King. Nothing more need be said about him.

And of course, Rhaegar. The man who was so obsessed with fulfilling a prophecy that he abandoned his wife and kids to go have sex with a teenage girl while the world burned around him. Jon Snow should be kissing Robert Baratheon's tombstone for sparing him the grief of having Rhaegar as a dad!

I legitimately can't think of any single decent Targaryen father, but that's fine with me, because House Targaryen is a curse upon the world. Fire consumes, fire destroys, till there is nought left but ash. How can we be surprised when the Targaryens did the same thing to themselves and their own family tree?

[Skahaz mo Kandaq]

7 hours ago, EggBlue said:

in your opinion, who is the best dad among the Targaryen kings and princes? and who is the worst? why?

to me, as far as bringing up good children goes , Daemon Targaryen seems the obvious choice . as for worst, the first one who comes to mind might be Aegon IV but Jaeharys I was a terrible dad (especially to his daughters ) ,too. 

Most were acceptable fathers for their time.  Like all noblemen, they used their children as game pieces for political gain.  Much like Rickard Stark did with Lyanna and Brandon.   

[Hrulj]

None of them were anywhere close to approaching good. The worst was Aegon V. All of his kids were wastes of breath without an ounce of responsibility ingrained into them, or sense of duty to anything greater than their own lusts and pleasures. 

 

Yeah sure to modern sensibilities he's a great dad, but as ruling monarch you can't let your kids do whatever they want. They have duties to complete. 

[Daeron the Daring]

I tend to think Jaehaerys I was a good father of his age. Given the age they lived in, when adultery was a great sin as well as not being a believer, his point of view is kind of understandable. We aren't supposed to put modern standards on him, or anyone else we discuss here. The only thing he was included regarding his daughters was the exile of Saera. I mean, Saera ran away, Jaehaerys just didn't let him return or anyone meet her.

In my opinion being a parent to a boy is much easier than to a girl, especially if you're the dad. 

We have no reason to assume Aegon I or Aenys were bad fathers. Aegon I especially had to be obsessed with his sons, given how everything he built was up to them to upkeep and expand, and also because they were boen so late he might have lost hope on having one. 

If we look at Jaehaerys' sons, Baelon and Aemon, I guess we have no reason to assume Aemon was a bad father. Baelon on the other hand seemed to have been giving a damn about everything after Alyssa's death, except for his duty as princ and crown prince. 

Viserys I was a bad father, Aegon II as well. Daemon is a different story, we have no reason to assume he was a bad father, and he was pretty caring when Mysaria got pregnant. Otherwise, his relation with his children isn't portrayed. 

His sons Aegon III and Viserys II were both kinda bad fathers (altough Aegon III died when Daeron I was 12, Baelor even younger, and one can say Viserys might have had no control over Aegon, no matter how much/hard he tried.) 

Aegon IV was potentially the worst. 

Daeron II seems to be a good one, maybe the best. 

Baelor Breakspear seems to had been an idol to his son Valarr, most likely a good father. Maekar also seems to had been a caring father, also protective (of Aerion, for example, at Ashford). Daeron the Drunken died too early to be a father figure, Aerion too (they both would've been terrible fathers), Aegon V is debatable, (but you can say he was a good one). Jaehaerys II we might say was a bad father, but again, there's that prophecy thing. Aerys II and Rhaegar were both terrible. Ugh. Did I miss anyone? 

[EggBlue]

2 hours ago, Daeron the Daring said:

Daemon is a different story, we have no reason to assume he was a bad father, and he was pretty caring when Mysaria got pregnant. Otherwise, his relation with his children isn't portrayed. 

yeah , Mysaria's pregnancy and his treatment of Nettles(who I believe to be one of his bastards from his time in step stones ) seem to show him as a potential good father . he also stopped his adventures and stayed at Driftmark with Laena when his twins were born and then he took them both with him to Dragonstone when he also seemed settled( settled for Daemon means he didn't hop on his dragon and fly into the sunset for months) .. so there's that..

2 hours ago, Daeron the Daring said:

Baelor Breakspear seems to had been an idol to his son Valarr, most likely a good father.

that guy was good at everything

2 hours ago, Daeron the Daring said:

Jaehaerys II we might say was a bad father, but again, there's that prophecy thing. Aerys II and Rhaegar were both terrible. Ugh. Did I miss anyone? 

Jaehaerys II is also an interesting case. I can't make up my mind about the guy. he ordered his kids to get married against their will due to the prophecy . but we know that prophecies are  important to Targaryens . prophecies and dreams literally saved them from the Doom.

which brings us to Rhaegar.. as always you can never be sure about him! it seems he ran off with a younger girl for half a year just a couple of months after his son's birth which makes him a terrible dad. but the boy was his promised prince if nothing else, why would he just go? what was the rush to make the third head? why didn't he think everything through? and his journey before abduction .. he only took half a dozen confidants which makes me think he was trying to do something about the prophecy.. perhaps something to aid his just-born promised prince..perhaps to protect him?... and all that aside , he was such an absent dad in Rhaenys's life ..so , why would she run to his room when she is scared? was he a good father to her?!! just doesn't make sense..

[EggBlue]

all the answers made me think of something else... How can a king be a good father? where is the balance? 

[Jaenara Belarys]

On 12/13/2021 at 7:25 PM, Floki of the Ironborn said:

Jaehaerys II, a selfish asshole who only cared about screwing his own sister in yet another disgusting display of Targaryen incest. Which, it must be said, further tampered with the Targaryen gene pool and produced yet more lunacy into the world of Westeros.

 

Come on, Floki......incest is wincest. 

Spoiler

I'm joking of course. Incest is gross, but considering this is a book I'm willing to put up with it. Asides that, I mostly agree. 

 

[Apoplexy]

On 12/14/2021 at 2:01 PM, EggBlue said:

all the answers made me think of something else... How can a king be a good father? where is the balance? 

I would say by taking the time to know your children and trying to find ways to keep them happy and securing power/alliances at the same time. It wont be easy of course, but not impossible. Assuming children are your property to do with as you please is a definite red flag. 

[Apoplexy]

On 12/14/2021 at 2:00 PM, EggBlue said:

Jaehaerys II is also an interesting case. I can't make up my mind about the guy. he ordered his kids to get married against their will due to the prophecy . but we know that prophecies are  important to Targaryens . prophecies and dreams literally saved them from the Doom.

I think the question is who was he trying to save and how. The PtwP was a vague character and it wasn't clear what that person would do. To force his children to marry when they didn't want to do so for some prophesy that was vague to begin with seems shitty to me. Especially when he married for love against his father's wishes. Fleeing valyria before the doom was much more tangible and did not involve making other people martyr themselves for 'the greater good'.

On 12/14/2021 at 2:00 PM, EggBlue said:

which brings us to Rhaegar.. as always you can never be sure about him! it seems he ran off with a younger girl for half a year just a couple of months after his son's birth which makes him a terrible dad. but the boy was his promised prince if nothing else, why would he just go? what was the rush to make the third head? why didn't he think everything through? and his journey before abduction .. he only took half a dozen confidants which makes me think he was trying to do something about the prophecy.. perhaps something to aid his just-born promised prince..perhaps to protect him?... and all that aside , he was such an absent dad in Rhaenys's life ..so , why would she run to his room when she is scared? was he a good father to her?!! just doesn't make sense..

I find Rhaegar terrible. We don't know how exactly he convinced Lyanna to run away, but I presume there was a lot of taking advantage of a naive young girl involved there. I can understand being unhappy in his marriage to Elia, but he was a father to her children and should've looked after their prospects. Rhaenys probably ran to his room because she was told fathers were supposed to be protectors. And when she gets married her husband would be her protector. I doubt it says anything good about Rhaegar as a father.

[EggBlue]

4 hours ago, Apoplexy said:

Rhaenys probably ran to his room because she was told fathers were supposed to be protectors. And when she gets married her husband would be her protector. I doubt it says anything good about Rhaegar as a father.

good point

[frenin]

On 12/14/2021 at 2:43 AM, Curled Finger said:

Does that make Viserys a good or bad father-

Depends entirely if you're Aegon or Rhaenyra.

 

On 12/14/2021 at 2:43 AM, Curled Finger said:

Aegon V didn't force his kids to marry politically

Yes he did, he not only forced Rhaelle Targaryen to marry Ormund Baratheon, he offered her as hostage.

Aegon was spineless, almost as bad as his spoiled brats.

 

 

On 12/14/2021 at 3:52 AM, EggBlue said:

Aegon V was a good father.

Again, poor Rhaelle wants to know why you're forgetting about her.

 

On 12/14/2021 at 4:25 AM, Floki of the Ironborn said:

There were NO good Targaryen fathers.

Aenys was objectively a good father tho.

Till the wars of religion, his kids lived a happy normal (by their standards) life. Then ofc he fucked up big time as King but that's another story.

 

 

On 12/14/2021 at 4:25 AM, Floki of the Ironborn said:

Daeron II, on the surface, seems like a decent enough dad, but aside from Baelor, his kids were comprised of an antisocial and selfish introvert, a madman who was allowed to breed children, and an egotistical douchebag who killed his own brother rather than admit he was himself a shitty dad

You're being quite unjust here.

Your sons being introvert and having mental issues, it's not only not a stain as to how you raised them but it's fine.

The idea that a someone with mental issues shouldn't be allowed to breed is quite 19th century.

And Maekar was the most curious of them all.

Yes, Daeron II is another objectively good father.

 

 

 

On 12/14/2021 at 6:25 PM, Daeron the Daring said:

tend to think Jaehaerys I was a good father of his age.

People of his age condemned him for his treatment to his daughters however.

I mean Jaeharys is a bad father to his daughters, the phrase "He was better with roads than with his daughters" it's not there so we think that he might have a point. Then again, Alyssane shares a no small portion of the blame.

To this day I don't know what the endgame with Viserra was.

 

 

 

On 12/14/2021 at 9:00 PM, EggBlue said:

prophecies and dreams literally saved them from the Doom.

And got them Summerhall or a guy drinking wildfire because he'd be a dragon.

 

On 12/14/2021 at 9:01 PM, EggBlue said:

all the answers made me think of something else... How can a king be a good father? where is the balance? 

Daeron II for the most part seemed to have been a pretty good father.

His kids were in fact used for political alliances but they were not otherwise pressured to do anything, he offered both Rhaegel and Aerys the shelter they needed, another parent like Aegon or Jaeharys would have forced their martial ideas on them.

 

 

 

 

 

[Floki of the Ironborn]

1 hour ago, frenin said:

 

The idea that a someone with mental issues shouldn't be allowed to breed is quite 19th century.

 

I don't know what came over me to make such a remark. I can only apologise. 

[frenin]

1 hour ago, Floki of the Ironborn said:

I don't know what came over me to make such a remark. I can only apologise. 

No worries, the world they live in is shitty, so from time to time, we fans get carried away.

[Odej]

On 12/18/2021 at 7:02 PM, Apoplexy said:

Rhaenys probably ran to his room because she was told fathers were supposed to be protectors. And when she gets married her husband would be her protector. I doubt it says anything good about Rhaegar as a father.

As someone who works with children and has a lot of them in the family I definitely don't think that's what happened. Rhaenys was 2-3 years old at the time and children that age are too young to understand that a father is a protective figure with just words. Especially a father she spent months apart and always having her mother around. Kids at this age don't understand that they can't put their hand in the fire because they're going to get hurt, no matter how well we explain, until they get hurt doing it if we don't pay attention. Experience and memory are very important in developing a sense of protection. 

If a 2-3 kid has an absent father who works all day, even if her mother or someone else told them that he is their protector, the lack of conviviality and memories in which the child actually felt safe with him won't make that child see their father this way. My guess is Rhaenys sought refuge in her father's bed because of some fond memory in her subconscious where she felt protected by him.

[Apoplexy]

7 minutes ago, Odej said:

As someone who works with children and has a lot of them in the family I definitely don't think that's what happened. Rhaenys was 2-3 years old at the time and children that age are too young to understand that a father is a protective figure with just words. Especially a father she spent months apart and always having her mother around. Kids at this age don't understand that they can't put their hand in the fire because they're going to get hurt, no matter how well we explain, until they get hurt doing it if we don't pay attention. Experience and memory are very important in developing a sense of protection. 

If a 2-3 kid has an absent father who works all day, even if her mother or someone else told them that he is their protector, the lack of conviviality and memories in which the child actually felt safe with him won't make that child see their father this way. My guess is Rhaenys sought refuge in her father's bed because of some fond memory in her subconscious where she felt protected by him.

How children are socialized matters a lot. Even at age 2-3, children are certainly conscious of the words that are repeated to them and aware of social roles. Ask any person that has grown up in a patriarchal household. Mothers are supposed to nurture, fathers protect. Distant and emotionally unavailable is how fathers are supposed to be in patriarchal societies. Even 50 yrs ago fathers were expected to be little more than disciplinarians, providers and protectors. 

And it is just as likely that Rhaenys just ran into the first room she saw without thinking too much about it.

[Odej]

24 minutes ago, Apoplexy said:

How children are socialized matters a lot. Even at age 2-3, children are certainly conscious of the words that are repeated to them and aware of social roles. Ask any person that has grown up in a patriarchal household. Mothers are supposed to nurture, fathers protect. Distant and emotionally unavailable is how fathers are supposed to be in patriarchal societies. Even 50 yrs ago fathers were expected to be little more than disciplinarians, providers and protectors. 

All this is very correct. My point is, in a dangerous situation a little girl like Rhaenys and even a adult would be looking for someone or some place where she remembers fell safe and no for a place or a person that someone told her it's safe, but she had never felt that way about it. In situations like that our emotions determine our behavior more than reason.

 

24 minutes ago, Apoplexy said:

And it is just as likely that Rhaenys just ran into the first room she saw without thinking too much about it.

This is definitely more likely, but since the coments before was about Rhaenys/Rhaegar and why she hided under her father's bed that's my opinion.

[EggBlue]

53 minutes ago, Odej said:

As someone who works with children and has a lot of them in the family I definitely don't think that's what happened. Rhaenys was 2-3 years old at the time and children that age are too young to understand that a father is a protective figure with just words. Especially a father she spent months apart and always having her mother around. Kids at this age don't understand that they can't put their hand in the fire because they're going to get hurt, no matter how well we explain, until they get hurt doing it if we don't pay attention. Experience and memory are very important in developing a sense of protection. 

If a 2-3 kid has an absent father who works all day, even if her mother or someone else told them that he is their protector, the lack of conviviality and memories in which the child actually felt safe with him won't make that child see their father this way. My guess is Rhaenys sought refuge in her father's bed because of some fond memory in her subconscious where she felt protected by him.

thanks for your comment. another issue is that lots of Martin's child characters don't seem to act according to their age . take 3-4 year old Rickon for example... there are not many kids around me so I can't be sure ... but, doesn't he seem more 5-6? so, shouldn't we age Rhaenys up a little with the same pattern in order to analyze her behavior?

38 minutes ago, Apoplexy said:

And it is just as likely that Rhaenys just ran into the first room she saw without thinking too much about it.

yes , that's one of the most realistic things of course.