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The Complete Witcher saga vs. Wheel of Time vs. Malazaan vs. Memory, Sorrow & Thorn


Arakan

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Greetings good people! It’s been a good while since I dwelled in the realm of epic fantasy but the mood came back and now the question is: what should I read? 

My general problem with the whole Genre (much more so than with SF) is the issue „interesting concept/world but subpar execution“, meaning: many authors have really great ideas but are simply bad writers. And no matter how good the concept, if the execution is bad, I cannot continue reading. 

I recently read quite a lot of Dan Simmons (Hyperion Cantos, Ilium/Olympos, The Terror, Drood) and whoa, that man can write. 

If we take literary quality into account which of those 4 sagas would be my best bet?
 

 

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If you're looking for literary quality, why confine yourself to those series? NK Jemisin, Jack Vance, Gene Wolf, Guy Gavriel Kay, et al, are all worthwhile.

If you really would like a comparison, my personal preference is The Witcher series followed by The Wheel of Time series. I can't properly rank MST because each time I try to read those books I get so bored I stop about 100-250 pages into the first book.

I think The Witcher series would be your best bet. Particularly since there's much less of a time investment to it.

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I haven't read MS&T, but I wouldn't consider any of the other 3.  Maybe the Witcher, but you're reading a translation that doesn't always hold up.

If Dan Simmons is where you just came from, NK Jemisin would be a great follow up.  If you haven't read Robin Hobb, I think her prose is some of the best out there, regardless of genre.  The Acts of Caine my Matthew Stover is also up there.  I'd also consider the Long Price Quartet, as it has very unique prose, though I didn't love the story, many on here love it.  I'd read any of those before the ones you've mentioned.

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You've asked a supremely difficult question when you decided to narrow it down to literary quality, let me tell you. This kind of literature is rarely expertly written. Authors excel – need to excel – in other departments, that’s how it is. I don’t think that any one of them approaches Simmons’ literary quality, wit and creativity.

That being said I think your safest bet would be Tad Williams. Let me explain.

I believe that Sapkowski just strait out loses out here. For couple of reasons. First of all it’s a translation. It loses a lot of its charm in the process, especially when it comes to dialogues. Secondly, Sapkowski just loses steam along the way. His short stories are very good, some of the – excellent. In the saga however Sapkowski’s pen just drops in quality from book to book and it’s clearly visible that not only he’s losing control of the plot, he’s losing control of his writing as well. 

Robert Jordan is just, to put it honestly and straightforwardly before you, not a good writer when it comes to style. His prose is stock of fantasy literature. When you ask yourself a question: How does a Tolkienesque epigonic fantasy literature look like? You most probably instinctually imagine either Jordan or (worse case) Terry Goodkind. So that’s that.

Erikson is a beast all on his own. It takes a peculiar authorial gift to be able to produce what he made. It has a lot of quality in places, to be sure, but, in my honest opinion, it’s just way too bloated to be considered good overall. Erikson knows how to write well and he shows it from time to time, but in between these moments you just… slog through, you know?

If it’s literary quality you want you should just drop pretences and go read some Guy Gavriel Kay.

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First of all, thank you for the answers :). Second, the reason why I narrowed it down to those four is because 1) I liked the (recently watched) first Witcher season on Netflix more than I expected, 2) WOT and MST are classics of the genre so I somehow feel compelled to at least give them a chance and 3) I read so often that Malazaan is really „crazy in a positive sense“ and „it all pays off in the end even if it is really more of an anthology series“ that I felt quite intrigued 

Gene Wolf also comes to mind and his Book of the New Sun but I fear this one I can only read in translation as so many subtleties would be lost on me if I read it in non-native English. I tried it once and soon gave up. Doesn’t help that I don’t really have a clue what this story is actually about.

In the end of course it’s never black and white, i.e. what one author lacks in craftsmanship they can make up in a meaningful exploration of their ideas and concepts. For example I liked Bakker‘s PoN series quite a lot even though he isn’t the best writer out there but the concept of his world in general and the philosophical ideas he tried to discuss were very intriguing (even the Aspect Emperor series was good/great if we forget about the last two books). 

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1 hour ago, Lessingham said:

I don’t think that any one of them approaches Simmons’ literary quality, wit and creativity.

I agree very much and sometimes it‘s difficult to understand why some authors rise to a certain fame level and others, well, don’t. The Hyperion Cantos is out there as one of the best works the Sci-Fi genre has to offer. Not only supremely well written but well thought out world, philosophical concepts and asking very interesting thought-provoking questions. 

Maybe all it needs is a well-budgeted streaming Series ;)  

 

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1 hour ago, IFR said:

If you really would like a comparison, my personal preference is The Witcher series followed by The Wheel of Time series. I can't properly rank MST because each time I try to read those books I get so bored I stop about 100-250 pages into the first book.

You know what they say: the first couple hundred pages are often the hardest ;)

1 hour ago, aceluby said:

I haven't read MS&T, but I wouldn't consider any of the other 3.  Maybe the Witcher, but you're reading a translation that doesn't always hold up.

I heard that the German translation (my mother tongue) of the Witcher is quite ok and was „approved“ by the author. In General my rule is: if it’s non-English/non-German literature I by default take the German translation (last example: Three Body Problem). Reasoning: Translation and Synchronisation markets for literature/TV are Standard in Germany as the vast majority of works are Non-German anyway, meaning very high levels of experience and professionalism. The English literature world is so vast in itself that only the very best get translated to English. 

1 hour ago, Lessingham said:

That being said I think your safest bet would be Tad Williams. Let me explain.

I believe that Sapkowski just strait out loses out here. For couple of reasons. First of all it’s a translation. It loses a lot of its charm in the process, especially when it comes to dialogues. Secondly, Sapkowski just loses steam along the way. His short stories are very good, some of the – excellent. In the saga however Sapkowski’s pen just drops in quality from book to book and it’s clearly visible that not only he’s losing control of the plot, he’s losing control of his writing as well. 

Robert Jordan is just, to put it honestly and straightforwardly before you, not a good writer when it comes to style. His prose is stock of fantasy literature. When you ask yourself a question: How does a Tolkienesque epigonic fantasy literature look like? You most probably instinctually imagine either Jordan or (worse case) Terry Goodkind. So that’s that.

Erikson is a beast all on his own. It takes a peculiar authorial gift to be able to produce what he made. It has a lot of quality in places, to be sure, but, in my honest opinion, it’s just way too bloated to be considered good overall. Erikson knows how to write well and he shows it from time to time, but in between these moments you just… slog through, you know?

A second vote for MST by exclusion. And with regards to RJ, this is what I fear. It’s a behemoth of a saga (12000 pages?). Jesus sometimes I wish those sagas could be heavily edited, distilled so to speak, reworked etc taking the best, leaving the worst/nonsense and applying improved skills. 

Anyway, conclusion: MST it is, followed by the Witcher (in German). Thank you people :)

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I disagree The Witcher series quality drops from book to book. I do agree the first two volumes, which happen to be short stories collections, are the best, but out of the other five books I value The Tower of Swallow and Lady of the Lake the most (minus the ending), and the latter also has the best single battle description I ever read (and this includes Heroes by Abercrombie - by the way, he's your next possibly obvious choice). Sapkowski is definitely a good writer, and though The Witcher series has its flaws, it is a smooth read from beginning to end, especially if you are able to avoid issues with English translation, which differs in quality I'm told.

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5 hours ago, Arakan said:

Greetings good people! It’s been a good while since I dwelled in the realm of epic fantasy but the mood came back and now the question is: what should I read? 

My general problem with the whole Genre (much more so than with SF) is the issue „interesting concept/world but subpar execution“, meaning: many authors have really great ideas but are simply bad writers. And no matter how good the concept, if the execution is bad, I cannot continue reading. 

I recently read quite a lot of Dan Simmons (Hyperion Cantos, Ilium/Olympos, The Terror, Drood) and whoa, that man can write. 

If we take literary quality into account which of those 4 sagas would be my best bet?
 

 

Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn.

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3 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn.

Thank you Scot. I think I will give it a try. Reading about it right now, I get the feeling that MST is the spiritual forebear of ASOIAF (in a good way). Wot would be in so far interesting as I heard a lot of good stuff about its worldbuilding. But then a teenage savior to save the world…maybe I am already old and cynical but that seems to me too clear cut black and white. Do not like. Apologies if I am wrong. 

If WOT wouldn’t be such a gigantic time effort I would try it anyway. But 12,000 pages is a hell of a commitment. 

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31 minutes ago, Arakan said:

Thank you Scot. I think I will give it a try. Reading about it right now, I get the feeling that MST is the spiritual forebear of ASOIAF (in a good way). Wot would be in so far interesting as I heard a lot of good stuff about its worldbuilding. But then a teenage savior to save the world…maybe I am already old and cynical but that seems to me too clear cut black and white. Do not like. Apologies if I am wrong. 

If WOT wouldn’t be such a gigantic time effort I would try it anyway. But 12,000 pages is a hell of a commitment. 

WOT is also a bloody slog.  

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Memory, Sorrow and Thorn is the most consistent of the four series mentioned, though The Witcher is actually shorter overall (seven slim volumes compared to two massive and one utterly gargantuan one, not counting the sequels).

Malazan probably has the highest highs of the four series, but you have to wade through a certain level of morass to get there, and Book 1 is particularly problematic. However, Books 2 and 3 are probably the best of the series, so that's a much shorter time commitment to get to grips with the best of the series (if you dislike 2 and 3, the chances of liking the rest of the series I think are minimal).

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2 hours ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

WOT is also a bloody slog.  

Well I guess it depends on the kind of slog ;). I am not a plot fetishist per es. Yes I like myself a good, coherent ending to a story but I am more of a road trip guy. In the end, every so complicated story can be reduced to „two or more antagonistic factions fight for dominance“ anyway. That’s epic fantasy (and human history) in a nutshell. I love character studies (with psychological insights), tension through dialogue (think Tarantino‘s Inglorious Basterds tavern scene*), natural exploring of another world (emphasis on natural, otherwise just artificial forced exposition**).

*one of my favorite scenes in ASOIAF is the arrival of Jaime at the siege of Riverrun after the Red Wedding and the utter tension/hate between the River Lords/Freys/Lannisters at the war council (Martin at his best)

**natural: Brienne learning about land and people while searching for Sansa
   bad: Tyrion/fAegon in Essos

 

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Joe Abercrombie should be in this group. Two complete trilogies, a few standalone novels, and one collection of short stories. If you want a road trip/quest, the first trilogy has a whopper. 

Another one to consider is Daniel Abraham's The Dagger and the Coin series - five books and he stuck the landing perfectly. Good prose, excellent dialog, some epic road trips, and oh, such scheming. 

And last but in no way least, Robin Hobb's the Farseer Trilogy. Grit and heartbreak aplenty, you'll never forget it. 

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