The Wheel of Time: The Wheel Weaves as Jeff Bezos Wills (Book Spoilers)

[Scott_N]

34 minutes ago, Poobah said:

Also maybe I'm just a total philistine or whatever but I don't really understand the complaints about lighting? I mean conceptually I understand that things can be lit well and that there is an art to doing it, but as a casual viewer who's not really in the know or invested in it the main thing I'm concerned with is if I can see the actors, with a side of "is the mood right?" and I think the show's done ok on those fronts.

I know what you mean but did you watch that video Ran posted? It's less about good/bad lighting but type of lighting and the ramifications of that choice. It did make sense to me and explained the misgivings I shared but, because I know nothing about the subject, could not articulate.

[Ran]

Just now, fionwe1987 said:

I'd spoilered this, but I believe they made the Waygate OP only, and added that but about the Black Wind being attracted to channeling, to give a plausible reason for why they couldn't just go back and talk Mat into coming with them.

That makes a lot of sense to me, that this is just another awkward thing to do with working around Barney Harris leaving the show.

[karaddin]

2 hours ago, Scott_N said:

It does not come naturally to me, but I will try to adopt an approach similar to karaddin's because if I want to find fault with the show it's just too easy. But here I am still kind of enjoying it so it must have something going for it.

It didn't come naturally to me at first either, but came with getting older and realizing that my brother seemed to enjoy things a lot more with this attitude than I was having. So I gave it a try and it works as long as there's something to enjoy. When something is just too bad, then... We walk out like we did after Rise of Skywalker lol.

1 hour ago, IFR said:

No one wants you to not enjoy it. When news that the show was doing well with viewership, most of us offered congratulations to the cast and crew and the audience who does like the show.

You've said something to this effect a couple of times and I've got no reason not to take you at your word, so something's definitely causing misunderstandings between what you're saying and how I'm interpreting what you're saying - your posts on the show read to me like an assertion of this being objectively trash and that enjoyment of it is an indictment of anyone that does. Which is clearly not your intent. I suspect some others might have picked up a similar vibe that's led to some of us thinking you don't want anyone to enjoy it.

I really enjoyed this episode. Love the way that Lan introducing Nynaeve to his 'family' sows seeds both for her adoption of the Malkieri people as her own but also for her to have the connections with them to call on them to ride with Lan.

Unlike a number of you I actually thought Rand's realization and acceptance really worked for me. Being in denial of something is not the same as knowing the thing and hiding it. The denial can work on a deeply subconscious level with your brain outright blocking you from being aware for the sake of your own mental safety, even for situations which are really obvious once you look directly at it and see 2+2=4. Maybe that just resonates more for me because I've lived it. It took machin shin voicing the fears of his subconscious plus being confronted by the thought of Egwene's life being unnecessarily endangered to make him look at the maths.

The blight wasn't at all how I pictured it, but I think it's objectively more like the actual book descriptions than what I was imagining lol. I thought it worked. It looks creepy and disgusting and full of rot.

[Ran]

Just now, Scott_N said:

I know what you mean but did you watch that video Ran posted? It's less about good/bad lighting but type of lighting and the ramifications of that choice. It did make sense to me and explained the misgivings I shared but, because I know nothing about the subject, could not articulate.

It's like 3-4 minutes on the topic of lighting and sets and so on.

[Werthead]

18 minutes ago, fionwe1987 said:

I'd spoilered this, but I believe they made the Waygate OP only, and added that but about the Black Wind being attracted to channeling, to give a plausible reason for why they couldn't just go back and talk Mat into coming with them.

They wouldn't have released the publicity image then. Also, they still need to explain how Fain used the Waygate if it's OP only.

[fionwe1987]

Just now, Werthead said:

They wouldn't have released the publicity image then. Also, they still need to explain how Fain used the Waygate if it's OP only.

Yes, but I think they'll explain it away as something forgotten by the Aes Sedai and the Ogier since the Ways went dark, but actually, it was always possible to open it without the One Power. 

That ability is rather crucial for some later storylines, so I expect this is information that Fain will give Moiraine when he's captured (probably in season 2). 

[Werthead]

I will say, like the Tower of Joy, this was a sequence I'd been waiting to see realised on screen for twenty-odd years and it was reasonably epic, even if both realisations were different from the book (the Tower of Joy is probably my favourite scene from the last three seasons of GoT).

I only read LotR five years before the films came out, so whilst seeing those images on screen was huge, there wasn't quite the same weight of history behind it.

[IFR]

23 minutes ago, karaddin said:

You've said something to this effect a couple of times and I've got no reason not to take you at your word, so something's definitely causing misunderstandings between what you're saying and how I'm interpreting what you're saying - your posts on the show read to me like an assertion of this being objectively trash and that enjoyment of it is an indictment of anyone that does. Which is clearly not your intent. I suspect some others might have picked up a similar vibe that's led to some of us thinking you don't want anyone to enjoy it.

I couldn't account for why people would interpret my message as such. I point out plot holes and writing problems and express what is clearly my opinion. Usually I phrase things as "I think" and "in my opinion" and such.

My experience here is that there has actually been more hostility from those who enjoy this show. You'll note that I've been accused of cultural insensitivity for thinking Lan looked ridiculous in the grieving ritual. I obviously was not making fun of Korean grieving rituals, I was making fun of Lan in this show behaving so out of joint with his book iteration. It was needless to make this an attack on whether I'm properly sensitive to every custom of our world.

Further, there was criticism that I objected to the weepy warrior trope the writers are going for, that preferring what was actually in the book is somehow advocating for toxic masculinity or whatever.

I thought it would be a waste of time to get into a long meta debate on what values we as an audience are obligated to have in order to enjoy storytelling in the 21st century, so I didn't respond to these comments.

At any rate it's a bit puzzling why people are confused at those not thrilled about this show. I don't think anyone, even the fans, are claiming the show is great, or even close to great. It's a B-level show. Some people think it's a cut above the other B-level shows. Some think it's not.

[Corvinus85]

30 minutes ago, Werthead said:

I will say, like the Tower of Joy, this was a sequence I'd been waiting to see realised on screen for twenty-odd years and it was reasonably epic, even if both realisations were different from the book (the Tower of Joy is probably my favourite scene from the last three seasons of GoT).

I only read LotR five years before the films came out, so whilst seeing those images on screen was huge, there wasn't quite the same weight of history behind it.

The fight between Tigraine and the Companions did remind me of how GoT did Arthur Dayne vs Ned and his companions.

[David Selig]

I thought this episode was a big improvement on the last two and overall joint-best with Episode 4. Sure, there is plenty to nitpick and complain about changes, but within the context of the show itself only it worked much, much better than the previous two episodes. About time the show focused more on its main characters and give their actors a chance to show off their skills. Josha was quite impressive in the final reveal.

The opening scene was way over the top unrealistic in every aspect, but there is no actual realism in TV action scenes anyway, so I'd take a spectacular one like this one over more "realistic" and more boring ones any day.

[Ran]

I liked the musical beats at a couple of points this episode, even if they went with scenes that I wasn't necessarily on board with. The bit where Nyn is dressing and preparing to leave but talks with Lan -- the one where he say that line about having had nothing to die for  -- was a nice, wistfully romantic tune. There was another, but can't recall what it was -- maybe with Rand and Egwene.

 

[Lord Patrek]

Volume 3 of the soundtrack drops today:

 

[Gertrude]

I'm not sure why this episode of all of them is hitting me as kind of emblematic of the problems with this show. I've been enjoying it thus far and want to like it and for it to do well. I did have certain expectations that I was holding without realizing it. I expected the Perrin decisions to pay off more than they have, I was expecting the reveal to be worth hiding, I was expecting Loial to do something - anything - in the Ways. I was hoping we'd get to know the EF5 a bit more through the show and this final chance for them to be together was pretty underwhelming. I wasn't expecting Lan and Nyneave to get together for some reason, so that is throwing me off. I guess it's just another little expectation of Lan keeping her at arm's length because he's got no future. Just a lot of little hopes and expectations and this episode seemed to burn through and nothing landed for me. I really disliked Machin Shin, for instance. The serpent ring without a stone looks horrible and is impractical - it would snag on everything. Now that the dam has broke, even the little things grate more than they should.

[Myrddin]

I enjoyed this episode more than the previous two, though it did feel almost too much going on. We had to stop several times because my non-book reader wife kept asking what happened/was explained. That's good because she was engaged, but bad because important stuff was thrown in as an off comment. She still wasn't sure what Machin Shin was even after they left the Ways.

And I've had to point out each and every "whistling" hint throughout the series. I appreciate them trying to keep Fain on the downlow, but it is too subtle. At least Perrin spotted him. Made sense he dismissed it, given they're halfway across the world.

Speaking of Perrin, I liked how he spotted the guide stone in the dark first. Again, subtle nod. Also, I was sure it was Egwene who sent the Trolloc flying before Rand's flashbacks. 

If anything, the show is too subtle and expects people to pick up on every detail, which I guess is like the book experience in many ways.  

[Werthead]

Reasonable explanation for why Rand realised he was the DR so soon when he didn't really accept it in the novels until the end of Book 3.

[AncalagonTheBlack]

The new season of Witcher has better production, lighting\camera work/ music and action, with better actors.

What i want to know is , where did all the bumper Bezos money/budget go towards in in WoT? Cause i can't see it in the show.

[Arakasi]

Werthead had said I guess a bit about CGI costs and bottlenecks in the Covid world but I think maybe as few as like 5-6 cgi aided shots would have done a lot to make the world feel bigger. Like the open in this last episode was good but what if it had started from the edge of that plateau looking down into armies fighting and they then shift the view to Tigraine coming up over the hill. That would show somewhat of the battle going on.  There are other times that could have helped Tar Valon look bigger and show more of the scale of the world. If you asked a non book reader how big the area they’ve covered is they’d likely say maybe like Spain or France. Which is a good sized area but the Westlands is supposed to be bigger than Europe.

The set quality has been really good but the set scale has been small and I wish they felt bigger. An extra boulevard in TV for the parade, another facing for Fal Dara, more distance between the city and the gap, etc. Scenes that showed more people. I know they can’t just get a bunch of extras these days and maybe CGI is just more expensive but there just isn’t a lot of people in any shot. 

[Arakasi]

10 minutes ago, AncalagonTheBlack said:

The new season of Witcher has better production, lighting\camera work/ music and action, with better actors.

What i want to know is , where did all the bumper Bezos money/budget go towards in in WoT? Cause i can't see it in the show.

I’ll have to watch it now that it’s out but in whole I was rather disappointed with season one of Witcher. It made the sets they had in WoT seem quite big other than maybe the last episode.  And other than that one amazing fight Geralt had in like the 1st episode I was fairly underwhelmed til the fall of Cintra in the last two episodes. Hopefully season two has more even production quality.

[Poobah]

2 hours ago, Werthead said:

Reasonable explanation for why Rand realised he was the DR so soon when he didn't really accept it in the novels until the end of Book 3.

I think there's still plenty of room down the road for him to feel angst over his destiny and want to run from the weight of responsibilities and people wanting to attach themselves to and/or control him. I do wish they'd dropped a few more hints that he'd been carrying some shit for the past six episodes instead of committing so hard to the deception/misdirection/mystery, but the way it's presented in the show makes sense from his perspective - obviously we know that there's a long road ahead and that Moiraine is mistaken/misinformed but as far as Rand would be concerned this is it, they're off to face the Dark One now and if he doesn't own up to what he suspects now then he's getting all of his friends killed for nothing.

That said I also think that with the accelerated pace of the show they really don't have time to have him moan and flee his destiny too much because they just don't have the seasons for it to seem like a complete arc when by the end of next season he's likely gonna be holding Callandor and ruling Tear.

[SpaceChampion]

When Loial is describing the horrible ways to die in the Ways, and Rand stops him saying "That's alright, Loial. We understand." Pretty sure that line was going to be Mat's before they were forced to change it.

Regarding Agelmar, didn't seem hostile to Moiraine to me.  He was being a dick to his sister really.  Shienar is suppose to be more patriarchial, and he was patronizing her.  That probably pissed Moiraine off.  Agelmar apologized, but didn't sound like he understood for what he was supposed to be sorry for.