Corvinus85 Posted December 22, 2021 Share Posted December 22, 2021 1 hour ago, Gertrude said: A reactor has made predictions about the finale. I like this reactor because she's smart and thinks about and engages with the show. Some of her predictions make me smile, but she's got some good ones too. By watching the shorts and looking at the stills, she's pieced together that the leaf is an Ogier key, which I think is pretty impressive. It makes me frustrated that the show has all this info included, but not in the actual story. I know, if I'm patient I'm sure it will all be revealed when it's relevant, but ... it's sooooo close. It's right there! When was the leaf shown? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maithanet Posted December 22, 2021 Share Posted December 22, 2021 15 hours ago, fionwe1987 said: But after last night, I'm a bit more hopeful I can continue to enjoy the show, if they continue to at least give some semblance of an exploration of the story. They need to improve, absolutely, but they don't need to be a perfect adaptation to be a good and fun show, just as the books didn't have to be perfect writing to be what they were, either. I consider WoT to be a middle tier fantasy series. It does some things very well but has huge flaws that prevent me from recommending it to anyone. The show thus far has flaws of it's own, but at least doesn't suffer from most of WoT's shortcomings. It's too early to tell whether the shows own flaws are just growing pains or real continuous problems. IMO it's still possible that the show could be better than the books. EDIT: Not that I expect dedicated book fans to share that opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gertrude Posted December 22, 2021 Share Posted December 22, 2021 11 minutes ago, Corvinus85 said: When was the leaf shown? Not in the show, it was in the x-ray still shots connected to that episode. Fain is holding it at the gate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denvek Posted December 22, 2021 Share Posted December 22, 2021 17 minutes ago, Corvinus85 said: When was the leaf shown? Padan Fain is holding it when he comes out of the Fal Dara gate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fionwe1987 Posted December 23, 2021 Share Posted December 23, 2021 7 hours ago, Maithanet said: I consider WoT to be a middle tier fantasy series. It does some things very well but has huge flaws that prevent me from recommending it to anyone. The show thus far has flaws of it's own, but at least doesn't suffer from most of WoT's shortcomings. It's too early to tell whether the shows own flaws are just growing pains or real continuous problems. IMO it's still possible that the show could be better than the books. EDIT: Not that I expect dedicated book fans to share that opinion. I can't particularly say I disagree. There's definitely areas where the show already improves from the books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceChampion Posted December 23, 2021 Share Posted December 23, 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gertrude Posted December 23, 2021 Share Posted December 23, 2021 Oh, well if the Amazon guy is saying it, it must be true! :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sologdin Posted December 23, 2021 Share Posted December 23, 2021 Quote a claim that's backed up by Nielsen's reporting of 1.16 billion minutes of watch time for the premiere. is that a lot? it seems like a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darryk Posted December 23, 2021 Share Posted December 23, 2021 15 hours ago, Maithanet said: I consider WoT to be a middle tier fantasy series. It does some things very well but has huge flaws that prevent me from recommending it to anyone. I agree with this, I love the overall story of WoT but I don't consider the books sacrosanct and there are a myriad of ways they can be improved upon. It's not as easy as adapting ASOIF. GRRM wrote much better dialogue and characters; the GoT showrunners didn't really need to change much, they changed things anyway cause they were egomaniacs, but the books translated pretty well to screen. With WoT, I expected a lot of changes, because the plotting, dialogue and characterizations are nothing special in the books. I think my disappointment with the series so far as mainly been the dialogue, the "fake feeling" that a lot of the production has, inconsistent writing, and some other things. One thing I really love about the books that I thought would have translated well to screen is the atmosphere and sense of history, but the show seems to rush through things so much that it's not really giving the world the life it has in the books. But, I'll continue watching, and I'm glad the series seems to be doing well with people who haven't read the books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IFR Posted December 23, 2021 Share Posted December 23, 2021 Spoilers have been leaked for the finale, and...oh my. It is certainly going to get a reaction. Things are about to get interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fionwe1987 Posted December 23, 2021 Share Posted December 23, 2021 5 hours ago, sologdin said: is that a lot? it seems like a lot. The premier was about 180 minutes long, give or take. 1.16 billion watched minutes averages to about 6.5 million viewers..not bad, but hardly insane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arakasi Posted December 23, 2021 Share Posted December 23, 2021 I have not read any spoilers other than watched the teaser but from reading the book and the mess that is the ending of EotW I am 100% sure there is no green man and no Aginor/Balthamel. Having these bid bag guys show up and be killed one minute later by a guy who doesn’t matter to the story seems rather obvious. I guess Ishamael will be the only one there and it will just be against him. My question/thought is if they’re willing to kill Moiraine now. I don’t think any of the kids are at risk. Edit: On the forsaken in episode five they show eight dolls representing the forsaken. Pretty sure to me that means they cut five of them. Aginor, Balthamel and Messana are obvious choices since their story arcs aren’t really important. That still leaves them two more to cut and I assume Sammael is one of them. But you can easily cut Belahl or Semirhage too. Grandael is also cuttable if they cut out most of the politicking in the western kingdoms. She really only does that and turn the generals. If they keep the Seanchan more major that could keep Semirhage. To me the only important ones are Ishamael, Lanfear, Moghedien and then Asmodean and Demandred to a lesser extent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maithanet Posted December 23, 2021 Share Posted December 23, 2021 1 hour ago, Arakasi said: I have not read any spoilers other than watched the teaser but from reading the book and the mess that is the ending of EotW I am 100% sure there is no green man and no Aginor/Balthamel. Having these bid bag guys show up and be killed one minute later by a guy who doesn’t matter to the story seems rather obvious. I guess Ishamael will be the only one there and it will just be against him. My question/thought is if they’re willing to kill Moiraine now. I don’t think any of the kids are at risk. Edit: On the forsaken in episode five they show eight dolls representing the forsaken. Pretty sure to me that means they cut five of them. Aginor, Balthamel and Messana are obvious choices since their story arcs aren’t really important. That still leaves them two more to cut and I assume Sammael is one of them. But you can easily cut Belahl or Semirhage too. Grandael is also cuttable if they cut out most of the politicking in the western kingdoms. She really only does that and turn the generals. If they keep the Seanchan more major that could keep Semirhage. To me the only important ones are Ishamael, Lanfear, Moghedien and then Asmodean and Demandred to a lesser extent. I was actually wondering if someone went to the trouble of analyzing the statues of the Forsaken onscreen to determine who was who. I saw Modhedien for sure, and I thought I saw Lanfear and Ishamael, but I am not an expert of what each of the Forsaken looks like. The men especially all kind of blend together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arakasi Posted December 23, 2021 Share Posted December 23, 2021 Yeah I’ve sort of been looking for that too as I’m sure someone has done an analysis on it. Maybe we can at least find out the male/female ratio. Knowing if there is 3 women or 4 women is a big difference. If it is four then we know who they are and the men have to be I think Ishamael, Asmodean, Demandred and Rahvin. If it’s 3 women we have to figure which of Grandael or Semirhage got cut and which of Belahl or Sammael got added. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gertrude Posted December 23, 2021 Share Posted December 23, 2021 Oh, I think I've seen threads trying to identify them and if I remember, there are 4 and 4. Ishamael was named, and the other most agreed on statue was Graendal because of her ... ahem ... qualities. I think one also had a lute. edit: here's a thread I found. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted December 23, 2021 Author Share Posted December 23, 2021 Ishamael, Graendal, Semirhage, Moghedien, and Lanfear all seem pretty certain. I wouldn't be surprised if they have Moghedien do a bunch of Mesaana's stuff in the Tower. Hard to imagine they wouldn't use Demandred and Asmodean as well. Leaves a wild card male Forsaken. Be'lal or Rahvin would be my guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arakasi Posted December 23, 2021 Share Posted December 23, 2021 That thread seems to indicate definites as the four women minus Messana. Then for men the only to me musts are Ishamael and Asmodean. So that leaves 6 more of which we keep 2. Balthamel and Belahl seem easy enough cuts. First serves no purpose and Belahl is just to show balefire. So now we’re down to 2 out of Sammael, Rahvin, Demandred and Aginor. Two of them are warrior forsaken, one has a relationship to Elaynes arc and the last has arguably the most interesting background as creator of the shadowspawn. To me Demandred is cooler than Sammael but he also does nothing til like book 12. It seems from that thread they’re going with Sammael and Rahvin. Maybe Aginor instead of Rahvin. Looks like Demandred got cut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted December 23, 2021 Share Posted December 23, 2021 11 hours ago, sologdin said: is that a lot? it seems like a lot. It means that about 20 million people watched the premiere if you linearly divided it by the length of the first episode, though of course that's not counting people who watched half the episode and bailed or whatever (by older metrics, it'd be a lot more than 20 million). That seems in line with the figures that have been bandied together. There is some debate here, though, since if you divide it by 180 (the first three episodes), it's only 6.5 million views, which is clearly less than The Boys' premiere, contradicting their own claim (re-confirmed by Jennifer Salke on Twitter, and by Rafe Judkins in his Q&A with Alvaro Morte today) this is the biggest premiere they've ever had. Spoiler Spoilers have been leaked for the finale, and...oh my. It is certainly going to get a reaction. There's one spoiler that seems either fake, or exaggerated. Spoiler Loial's actor has been filming for Season 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvinus85 Posted December 23, 2021 Share Posted December 23, 2021 2 hours ago, Gertrude said: Oh, I think I've seen threads trying to identify them and if I remember, there are 4 and 4. Ishamael was named, and the other most agreed on statue was Graendal because of her ... ahem ... qualities. I think one also had a lute. edit: here's a thread I found. There was one that looked athletic so Sammel should be in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gertrude Posted December 23, 2021 Share Posted December 23, 2021 7 minutes ago, Corvinus85 said: There was one that looked athletic so Sammel should be in. There was one with a beard too that might be the one you are talking about. (That's a Samael thing, right?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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