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The Wheel of Time: The Wheel Weaves as Jeff Bezos Wills (Book Spoilers)


Ran
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3 hours ago, fionwe1987 said:

 About the show, I think it's a good point that Season 1 doesn't just have to adapt EotW. If you're going from 14 books to 8 seasons, you have no business adapting all of book 1 to one season. So season 1 already takes the early Fal Dara arc from tGH, and some of the politicking in the Tower.

8 seasons might even be pushing it. My completely uninformed guess is that 9 is the absolute max, 8 probably ideal but even squeezed down to 6 or 7 is possible if they really want to make sure they finish it.

I was trying to figure out where major beats would play out, I think it may end up something like

Most compressed

S2 - TGH and TDR ending in Tear, S3 - TSH and TFOH up to the capture of Cairhien, S4 - rest of TFOH and LOC ending on Dumai's Wells*, S5 - Everything up to the cleansing of saidin, S6 - Everything up to Rand remembering his humanity on the mountain top, S7 - The rest

I'd hope that they at least get 10 episodes per season from S3 if they try to fit it into that. The benefit of this approach is that you get multiple "build into climax" per season that I think fits the stakes of the story and the speed at which the kids need to rise to the occasion. It probably does also need a "per episode" budget increase.

I really feel like you want the cleansing in season 5 even if you have a bit more time though, more than that feels like it's stretching it out too much for a TV audience and it has the potential to make a phenomenal episode.

*I really hope the show focuses on the horror and revulsion the characters feel rather than focusing on the gory details as a spectacle. It's not an amazing battle, it's a slaughter house that's meant to make you feel sick. It's very effective at establishing what the Ashaman really are.

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7 hours ago, Werthead said:

Not the character in himself, but the idea that being stoic, not showing emotion and internalising trauma are ideals of masculine or "manly" behaviour, and showing emotion, externalising pain and actually processing grief are signs of "weakness" and such behaviour is wrong (a notion I thought would have died some time ago, but was being expressed in the previous thread). Ironic, of course, because Robert Jordan himself noted that type of behaviour is unhealthy and to move on from the trauma of Vietnam, he had to confront those issues, and his depiction of it in the books was not an argument for that kind of behaviour.

Fair enough and fits with what karaddin said too.

Nothing to do with the show, but I think I might have been triggered (hah!) by the implication that stoicism itself is inherently toxic. I would disagree with that. There is a time and place for everything but I certainly acknowledge that not dealing with severe trauma post-op demonstrably leads to poor outcomes.

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40 minutes ago, Scott_N said:

Fair enough and fits with what karaddin said too.

Nothing to do with the show, but I think I might have been triggered (hah!) by the implication that stoicism itself is inherently toxic. I would disagree with that. There is a time and place for everything but I certainly acknowledge that not dealing with severe trauma post-op demonstrably leads to poor outcomes.

Yeah I agree that there are healthy ways to be stoic, and that one part of is it ensuring that you express and process emotions like grief at a safe and appropriate time. By making it part of a grieving ceremony the way they did it doesn't just make Lan showing grief in that moment the appropriate time, but demonstrating it in that manner into a duty. So for me it completely fits him.

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Trailer for ep 7 - looks like things are escalating. The brief glimpse of the ways looks ok albeit very different to the Escher-inspired warped reality I imagined and Jordan described. Seems like we're gonna be getting some time to develop Rand, Egg, Nynaeve, and Perrin which is nice, as well as our introduction to Min.

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Regarding the stoicism thing, it isn't just Lan that's changed in the show. Moiraine is certainly more expressive than she would be if they kept things totally book accurate. Same for pretty much all the Aes Sedai, who are supposed to hide facial expressions and body language, and modulate their voice to an even intonation to mask their emotions.

All that would translate to some very robotic looking scenes on the show. Moiraine literally leaking tears, especially in public, is as much a departure for her character as Lan beating his chest. 

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My recollection of Aes Sedai is that they have a public face and a private face. Among themselves, many of them are pretty expressive, IIRC. I recall lots of shocked faces at various points (Nyn healing Siuan and Leane for example). Among outsiders in public, sure, they are Bene Gesserit-y. I don't think that would actually be a problem to depict.

Ditto Lan. 

They made aesthetic choices, clearly enough. 

Edited by Ran
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2 hours ago, Poobah said:

[...]

1.) If going to the EotW causes anyone who is not the Dragon reborn to die, what does Moraine intend on doing now that she and Lan can not go there either?

2.) Why is the Aiel fighting with swords?

3.) Why does it appear like Angelmar is arrogantly refusing help?

Edited by ASOIAFrelatedusername
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@ASOIAFrelatedusername

1) 

Spoiler

The leaked images linked earlier suggest Moiraine at least will be going with Rand anyways, so presumably sacrificing herself.

2) It's two Aiel spears when you frame-by-frame. That's also clearly Shaiel/Tigraine, as I expected from earlier glimpses. You can see the pregnancy bump on the side shot quite clearly.

3) Who knows. Drama, I guess.

My main reaction was that Min's viewing effect when we glimpse it on Perrin is disappointingly cheap-looking. At least, I assume that's what it's supposed to be.

Edited by Ran
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7 minutes ago, Ran said:

@ASOIAFrelatedusername

1) 

  Reveal hidden contents

The leaked images linked earlier suggest Moiraine at least will be going with Rand anyways, so presumably sacrificing herself.

2) It's two Aiel spears when you frame-by-frame. That's also clearly Shaiel/Tigraine, as I expected from earlier glimpses. You can see the pregnancy bump on the side shot quite clearly.

3) Who knows. Drama, I guess.

My main reaction was that Min's viewing effect when we glimpse it on Perrin is disappointingly cheap-looking. At least, I assume that's what it's supposed to be.

1.) Well that would not be good news for Moraine's character arc

2.) You are right, still that is some rather improbable maneuvers for a pregant woman even if she is supposed to be Aiel

Edited by ASOIAFrelatedusername
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2 hours ago, Arakasi said:

Yeah well those are two things that just won’t work with modern tv. You can’t have channeling not have a visual effect for the weaves and you can’t have a whole group of characters look wooden. Despite being accurate to the story neither would make watchable tv.

Do we know if they are going to develop more of the different type of weaves.  I was looking to see if there were different colors for Spirit or Fire, but I didn't notice anything.  One thing I don't like is that all the channeling looks the same when I was hoping they would have different effects or different movements for the different types of channeling.

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3 minutes ago, grozeng said:

I was looking to see if there were different colors for Spirit or Fire, but I didn't notice anything

Interestingly, the New Spring graphic novel -- which Jordan was quite involved in in terms of directing how characters and things should look -- has that feature; Earth is green, Fire is orange, etc. See this as an example.

Everything is indeed just white in the show.

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Yeah.  And the males channeling has the black.  But I was hoping to see some difference between the different weaves.  It would add something when Nynaeve starts healing people and has fire mixed in and it had a red thread to show she does it different than everyone else.

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2 hours ago, ASOIAFrelatedusername said:

1.) Well that would not be good news for Moraine's character arc

Spoiler

The thought did cross my mind that they might decide to really shock readers and non-readers alike and kill Moiraine off, or at least make it seem she's dead (ala TSR), now in an attempt to get that Ned buzz. Pike's a relatively noteworthy film actress and consequently not cheap, and may be very hard indeed to keep on for multiple seasons seeing as she has a film career...

But I think it's too audacious. My guess is that Min's vision will basically be about the TR kids, and that only the Dragon among them will survive, so it doesn't prevent Moiraine and Lan from going with him.

 

Edited by Ran
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2 minutes ago, Ran said:
  Reveal hidden contents

The thought did cross my mind that they might decide to really shock readers and non-readers alike and kill Moiraine off, or at least make it seem she's dead (ala TSR), now in an attempt to get that Ned buzz. Pike's a relatively noteworthy film actress and consequently not cheap, and may be very hard indeed to keep on for multiple seasons seeing as she has a film career...

But I think it's too audacious. My guess is that Min's vision will basically be about the TR kids, and that only the Dragon among them will survive, so it doesn't prevent Moiraine and Lan from going with him.

 

I think it's more likely because:

Spoiler

She literally does jack shit after coming back, or nothing that couldn't be done by others. I think RJ laid down all the notes and everything for her return, but left behind little to no information on what she actually did after her return, so they had to try to make it work.

It's also worth noting that, like a lot of actresses in their thirties and forties, Pike seems to be sandbagging against future acting offers drying up by getting production credits and moving into behind-the-scenes work as well, which I think she's been using WoT as a bit of a testbed for (she seems to be more genuinely involved behind-the-scenes than a lot of actors with a production credit). Though I think in her case her awards profile and critical acclaim makes it unlikely she'll be out of offers in the future.

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@Werthead

Spoiler

Yes, killing Moiraine for good down the road rather than leaving that plot thread open, sure. Especially with Siuan as her lover and Thom as a relative afterthought, seemingly, it makes sense. 

But do you believe they'll hurry up and kill her for good at the end of this season? That's what I thought was too audacious a departure for them.

 

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3 minutes ago, Ran said:

@Werthead

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Yes, killing Moiraine for good down the road rather than leaving that plot thread open, sure. Especially with Siuan as her lover and Thom as a relative afterthought, seemingly, it makes sense. 

But do you believe they'll hurry up and kill her for good at the end of this season? That's what I thought was too audacious a departure for them.

 

Oh no, that's not happening.

I mean,

Spoiler

She's posted videos from filming Season 2 on the set, and one of our mutual friends saw her live on location in the Czech Republic like five weeks ago :)

 

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I was going to respond to the who is the DR talk from last thread then uh, my internet went out for like 3 days.

I do find it funny Rand seems to be the least popular choice despite as others have pointed out the show kind of pointing towards him, I'd argue the show isn't doing so well a job there.

I mean, this is all anecdotal, just my view from friends/people I know who are non book readers, but no one I know has "the boring one with the anakin haircut" as their top guess. :P

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