Watch, Watching, Watch -- Keep the change you filthy animal!

[Corvinus85]

I didn't know the Norwegian HBO show Beforeigners had returned. Two episodes so far released in the US. It's a nice show to watch in this period when there is usually a lull in shows. 

[polishgenius]

Watched Amazon's latest action thingy, The Protege. Servicable bit of shooty-smashy, not as John Wick-y as the advertising makes it seem. The action's got more Bourne-y practicality to it (though not shakycam). Michael Keaton is excellent, and Maggie Q as the lead carries it well. There's a tonal swerve towards the end that's a bit odd though it ultimately serves to set up stuff so it works out. Will probably throw some people though. In any case, decent film, not gonna set any worlds on fire though.

[Ran]

5 hours ago, DMC said:

If you find the term derivative as too offensive a way to describe that, ok, but I suppose I'll let the Coens explain it themselves:

So they recognized a similarity to Fargo sometime after proceeding with the project, but it was not intentional -- an accident, as they say -- and it clearly is seen by them as a minor aspect of what No Country is as a film, a pretty surface level set of plot parallels but with pretty significant thematic and narrative differences.

Interesting, but ... yeah, Aguirre on the one hand and Fitzcarraldo on the other. I don't see why it's a strike for you, but de gustibus...

 

 

[DMC]

23 minutes ago, Ran said:

So they recognized a similarity to Fargo sometime after proceeding with the project, but it was not intentional -- an accident, as they say -- and it clearly is seen by them as a minor aspect of what No Country is as a film, a pretty surface level set of plot parallels but with pretty significant thematic and narrative differences.

I don't know why you think something has to be intentional to be derivative - especially when we're talking about someone's own work.  Indeed, there is always going to be a subconscious tendency to rely on what was successful in your prior works.  And this goes well beyond directors or even art - as has been pointed out to me, my research agenda often is too derivative of my prior work (which in itself was glaringly derivative of others but...let's put that aside for now). 

But, like Ethan said, when/if you're conscious of it the natural impulse is to avoid it.  A lot of directors don't, but even with the best it's very difficult.  In terms of the Gen X up and comers that broke through around the turn of the century - Anderson, Aronofsky, Nolan - they all have been plagued by this to varying degrees.  And I think there's a correlation between this and the general trend that most great directors' best offerings come early in their careers - dating back to Welles.

So, that's a longwinded way of explaining I don't really put it as a strike against the Coens, but my problem with No Country is it's a strikingly similar iteration (or derivation) of something(s) they already did - salt of the earth Real Americans out of their element and over their head trying to get one over on the nihilistic underbelly of society with the wizened lawperson (or Sam Elliott) as our lens.  If No Country had something to say about this that Fargo, or Lebowski or Raising Arizona or whatever didn't already say that'd be one thing - and interesting.  But if that's the case I don't know what that is - and I just finished watching it again since I saw it was on HBO Max.

[polishgenius]

To be fair Nolan's a bit different since he's not derivative of his own past works so much as Satoshi Kon. 

Well, that was true of Aaronofski too for Black Swan, to be fair.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

Station Eleven is a bit hypnotic to binge in the middle of the night. 

[Ran]

9 hours ago, DMC said:

If No Country had something to say about this that Fargo, or Lebowski or Raising Arizona or whatever didn't already say that'd be one thing - and interesting.  But if that's the case I don't know what that is

Fargo ends with the bad people brought to justice and Marge returning to a good and decent world, where her baby is coming and her husband's biggest concern is that his buddy got the 29 cent stamp while he only got the 3 cent stamp. Small-town Minnesota returns to the cozy quotidian rhythm of normality.

No Country for Old Men ends with the inevitability of evil and corruption being undefeatable and let loose in the world, that Sheriff Bell has a sense that everything has become much worse over the course of his lifetime and that he and the forces of good are simply overmatched. It's a much more Manichean film... and an apocalyptic one at that. Bell retires having always been a step behind and having failed to protect anyone from anything.

Very different messages, executed very differently.

[Heartofice]

I finally got around to watching Succession, and wow people weren't wrong, its incredible. The best thing I've watched in forever. The writing is so sharp, the characters grab you so quickly and burrow their way into your brains. It's also a very tight show with very little fat, you don't tend to get sub plots that drag on and add nothing, everything has value. It's an amazing watch, I'm angry at myself for leaving it so long.

 

[Mark Antony]

20 hours ago, DireWolfSpirit said:

.I rate Ford the Coward who assassinated JesseJ above everything previously discussed at any rate, some amazeballs shyt dat!!!!.

Love Fargo, No Country, and There will be Blood but yes. So much yes. 

[Annara Snow]

I finished S2 of The Witcher last night before going to the NYE celebration, but before that, I finally binge rewatched season 1 (I had planned to do it but didn't find time and started S2, and then realized I had to rewatch S1 to refresh my mind on the details).. and I realized just how excellent season 1 really was. I always thought the reviewers were being ridiculous (and lazy) in their trashing of the show (since their main issues seemed to be "how is this fantasy but not like GoT?" and "the timelines are confusing me") and I enjoyed it on first watch and didn't mind the timeline at all. But I still ranked it relatively low on my overall 2019 list, IIRC. On rewatch, you really see how smartly the storylines were paralleled by episodes (both themetically and with the way the information about the same things was presented from different timelines.  

[DMC]

7 hours ago, Ran said:

Very different messages, executed very differently.

Well, I think the difference in endings is in large part because one's a comedy and the other's a tragedy.  Before that the messages are very similar, and again you're omitting the penultimate scene where Marge laments the nihilism and evil of Stormare's actions as she drives him to the station that could very easily be recited by Jones' character if he had caught Bardem.  

Anyway, I think you are minimizing the clear similarities - and yes, they include thematic and narrative elements as well btw - between the two films.  In addition to what I already mentioned, a lot more came to mind while watching No Country yesterday, but whatever, I think this discussion has run its course.  Especially considering this all started because I don't think No Country nor There Will Be Blood approach the quality of Shawshank and Pulp Fiction.

[Zorral]

Looking forward to this tomorrow.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/31/arts/television/around-the-world-in-80-days-pbs-bbc.html
 

[Scott_N]

On 1/1/2022 at 2:00 AM, Mexal said:

Wildly entertaining show. It gets more and more ridiculous. We still haven't started season 4 but very much on our things to do after the way Season 3 ended.

Yeah, it's gets more and more pulpy but it's a guilty pleasure of mine, I can't help it. Men are men, and tough as nails. Women are women, and also tough as nails. They sure breed 'em differently up there in Montana.

Anyone seen the prequel, 1883?

[Zorral]

The Eyes of Tammy Faye, HBO.  This film explores the entwinement of the evangelical prosperity church networks and the the development of the USA YAY politics as we know them today, up close and personal.  It is subtle, it doesn't preach (just the in-the-closet, anti- gay pastors preach).  It's scary.  The actors are brilliant, particularly Chastain, who plays Tammy Faye.

 

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

Captive State: Not bad. Probably treated a bit too harshly by critics IMO. Clearly meant to be a trilogy that might have actually been interesting. We won't get to see it though. Would've made a good series on Netflix.

Star Trek: Discovery S4 E7: When I thought it couldn't get more tedious, here comes an episode where everyone's in a meeting... for the entire episode. It's not all bad though; stuff starts happening in the last 30 seconds. Fuck my life. 

[Iskaral Pust]

Wheel Of Time S1 was an enjoyable watch, despite flaws (discussed endlessly in the dedicated thread).

Matrix Resurrection was not worth the time to watch.  Initially interesting how they set up the re-boot, then faded with self-referential meta, and ultimately fell flat as they re-litigated the original story from the perspective of midlife regret — and twue wove deus ex machina again — with no progression of the bigger narrative.

No Time To Die was better than expected from reviews.  Terrible plot full of holes and contrivances, but overall a well made and watchable Bond film of the new ilk (so more like a Bourne film than a classic Bond).  The ending felt really forced, but that was their choice for Daniel Craig’s send-off.  I liked the new 007 character but wouldn’t be excited about her leading the franchise: too little charisma.  Moneypenny had bags more charisma, although not her ice-cool competence.

[RhaenysBee]

I watched Late Night and it was better and more enjoyable than I expected. The film is quite mistaken about itself and its characters and a bit of a far cry from reality but it still more or less works because Emma Thompson (and her character) is one impressive force of nature. 

[Spockydog]

Watched Don't Look Up last night. Thought it was really good, and god knows what those who say this ain't satire were watching, 'cos it wasn't this.

Found it terrifying and infuriating in equal measure. Meryl Streep as Donald Trump made me want to kick my TV screen in.

I guess many of the people slagging it are doing so because they see themselves up on the screen, and that level of stupidity ain't pretty. I can totally see why the MAGA cretins are review bombing it on IMDB and elsewhere. LOL.

Also, not sure why people are saying this is a Covid movie. It's clearly about climate catastrophe, a far more frightening subject than any virus.

[Veltigar]

I seem to have something of a Montana obsession as of late. I finished season two of Yellowstone last week, now I have one episode left of its third season and Friday I watched Campion's Power of the Dog. I must admit I wasn't blown away by it.

The film looks gorgeous and Benedict Cumberbatch seems to have really lost himself in the role, but I expected it to develop in a rather less obvious manner given how obtuse it was about the inner life of these characters:

Spoiler

I feel like the whole film revolves around two reveals. The first being the fact that Benedict Cumberbatch's über cowboy is secretly gay  and the second one being that Kody Smith's character is basically a predator in disguise.

Both of those fell completely flat for me. The obsessive talk about Bronco Henry was obviously building up to the reveal of Cumberbatch's homosexuality to the point that I felt like it took forever to get there. And during the scene where Kody Smith was remorselessly dissecting that rabbit I said to my buddy that it felt like I was watching the biography of a serial killer and it turns out that I wasn't far from the truth just from the general unpleasant vibe I was getting from the character. 

There was also one thing I couldn't wrap my head around, but I'm not enthusiastic enough to rewatch the film to find out

Spoiler

What sparks the interest of Cumberbatch in Kody Smith all of a sudden? I feel like he's targeting the kid for harassment, up until the moment he watches Cumberbatch wack off to Bronco Henry's scarf and then all of a sudden he seems to shift his attitude towards wooing the kid. Did I miss a flashback where he discovered Bronco Henry that way? Really weird.

Perhaps for people who had a different attitude towards the stuff in the spoilertags above this might be a great film, but for me this was just alright. One of the many oscar bait films to be released, watched once and then forgotten.

 

On 12/31/2021 at 7:00 PM, Mexal said:

Wildly entertaining show. It gets more and more ridiculous. We still haven't started season 4 but very much on our things to do after the way Season 3 ended.

Now you have made me curious about that last episode. Oh well, I'll get to it tonight and then straight on to the fourth season. The bolded very much captures how I feel about it as well. It's basically a soap, but with great visuals, a brilliant cast and with just a little bit more trust in the viewer to figure things out for themselves than usuap.

I also find that the show is winking at me the entire time. It constantly has its cast bang on about how outsiders are ruining the traditional ranching way of life, but it knows damn well that a large share of its audience must be wannabe cowboys. Heck, if I was a billionaire, I'd be one of those idiots buying a ranch and getting in the Dutton's crosshairs, so I feel like the show is basically taking a piss at me as well XD 

On 12/31/2021 at 7:48 PM, Zorral said:

I've watched the first three seasons, and have completely lost interest in it, despite splendid landscapes, and my abiding love for westerns.

It's a soap opera, and most (not all, and some are mixed) of the characters are vile. Also it streams elsewhere than on the services I've already spent more on than I should, and a service that really carries little that interests me.  Criticize as almost all of us like to do about Netflix and amazon, if they were the only two services I had, I could always dig out something, if I was patient enough in searching, that would appeal.

Yeah, I get that last part certainly. I had to google Paramount Network, didn't even know that was a thing at first. Definitely one of those streamers that is going to get gobbled up by one of the Big Five platforms as soon that sector finally starts consolidating. 

And yes, definitely, all characters are vile XD Who hasn't murdered anyone yet on this show? I love it though, as a sort of variation on Succession. Just because Kevin Costner is a damn impressive looking bastard and talks about family he basically gets a free pass to run a cowboy mafia in all but name XD

On 12/31/2021 at 8:03 PM, DireWolfSpirit said:

Eta: Yellowstone I've found to be loved by widely diverse audiences (both liberal and conservatives). There is an access issue with it as many don't have Paramount though.

I do wonder what appeals to both of those groups in the show. I get why a show like Succession is popular across the aisles but Yellowstone is more difficult for me.

Count me in as one of the fans of The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford. Probably one of the worst movie titles of all time, but there is such a gem of a film lurking underneath it luckily enough.

[Iskaral Pust]

2 hours ago, Spockydog said:

Watched Don't Look Up last night. Thought it was really good, and god knows what those who say this ain't satire were watching, 'cos it wasn't this.

Found it terrifying and infuriating in equal measure. Meryl Streep as Donald Trump made me want to kick my TV screen in.

I guess many of the people slagging it are doing so because they see themselves up on the screen, and that level of stupidity ain't pretty. I can totally see why the MAGA cretins are review bombing it on IMDB and elsewhere. LOL.

Also, not sure why people are saying this is a Covid movie. It's clearly about climate catastrophe, a far more frightening subject than any virus.

Agreed.  I thought it was quite good, as I laughed bitterly at its accurate satire that will still change nothing.

The Meryl Streep administration felt more like Veep than Trump to me, and I was able to laugh at it rather than throw objects at the screen.