Dorne for Daenerys, the Dayne Heiress.

[Loose Bolt]

5 hours ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Eddard rode into the Tower of Joy, with 6 other men. On horses. Yet, he could only bring Lyanna's body home? Despite having enough horses to bring everyone's body back home. He brought Lady Dustin her husbands horse, but couldn't put the body on the horse? Remarkably, horses are quite good at carrying things. Like people. Its not rocket science to rope up a bunch of horses and lead them somewhere. Im sure Eddard could figure it out. 

Unless Ned found a lot of ice to keep those corpses cool enough he would have to boil those bodies to remove all flesh or those bodies would start smelling very bad very soon. Or I assume that corpses would start rotting b4 he could take those anywhere where there are means to do anything to stop that process. So I understand why Ned buried his dead bannermen instead of bringing their bones back to North. After all it should take very long time to travel from Dorne to Barrowtown.

[EggBlue]

well, the issue of decaying corpses applies to Lyanna's as well. though, admittedly, figuring some means out for one corpse is easier than seven. 

the biggest problem with tower of joy incident for me is not one, not two but three kingsgaurd were at the tower abandoning Aerys , Rhaella, Viserys , Aegon and Rhaenys presumably to follow a prince's orders to protect his unborn third child... all while they still believed they weren't breaking one single vow. and remember , they were at the tower long before Aerys or Aegon died, they didn't know if the the new child will be a boy and we have no clue of whether they were so into the prophecy stuff that they let go of their precious kingsgaurd-honor. therefore , I believe we cannot take Jon and Lyanna at tower of joy as an accepted fact. 

[AlaskanSandman]

3 hours ago, Loose Bolt said:

Unless Ned found a lot of ice to keep those corpses cool enough he would have to boil those bodies to remove all flesh or those bodies would start smelling very bad very soon. Or I assume that corpses would start rotting b4 he could take those anywhere where there are means to do anything to stop that process. So I understand why Ned buried his dead bannermen instead of bringing their bones back to North. After all it should take very long time to travel from Dorne to Barrowtown.

Salt. Its not that hard. Moisture and oxygen causes rot. Same way you keep a ham from spoiling. He could've also just had a bonfire and hauled the bones. Either way, Lady Dustin was not happy about it.  Could've pulled a Samwise and just dump the bodies in caskets of Rum, like they did with Aemon. There are other ways too.

[Moiraine Sedai]

Jon is the more likely Dayne. Dany already has a superior weapon. 

[AlaskanSandman]

1 minute ago, Moiraine Sedai said:

Jon is the more likely Dayne. Dany already has a superior weapon. 

Order of the Greenhand I believe have a theory along those lines. Or I've heard that else where. Some references in his chapters towards the stars I think. Can't recall off hand. I lean more towards Dany but I'm familiar with the idea and the idea that he gets Dawn as Danny has the dragons. Helping to make him Azor Ahai. I like it better than him being Rhaegar and Lyanna's kid either way. That theory never sat well with me haha

[Loose Bolt]

3 hours ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Salt. Its not that hard. Moisture and oxygen causes rot. Same way you keep a ham from spoiling. He could've also just had a bonfire and hauled the bones. Either way, Lady Dustin was not happy about it.  Could've pulled a Samwise and just dump the bodies in caskets of Rum, like they did with Aemon. There are other ways too.

Chances are very high that Ned simply did not had access to any of those. Or I am almost sure that he did not have with him enough salt or caskets of rum for 6(?) bodies. Besides even firewood might have been in limited supply. After all many parts of Dorne are not covered by forests. Totally another thing is that Ned could not wait even a day b4 he had do something to those bodies. So he could not take those bodies with him.

[James West]

On 12/19/2021 at 11:24 AM, Targaryen Restoration said:

Ser Barristan was romanticizing Lady Ashara and Queen Daenerys.  He holds a deep affection for the Lady Ashara and his life is filled with regrets.  He now got to transfer those affections to his Child Queen and correct for the mistakes of the past.  It does not mean the two ladies have the same eyes.  Two pairs of eyes looking to him for guidance and protection.  That is what Ser Barristan was seeing.  He grows to love and care for Queen Daenerys.  If she should turn out to be a Dayne, it will be through a secret affair between Ser Arthur and Queen Rhaella.  But I find that unlikely.  The Targaryens have sacrificed love and happiness for three generations in order to bring on her birth.  Targaryen grandparents and parents brought us the Prince Who Was Promised who brought back the dragons.  The PWWP has to be the child of two Targaryens, who were also the children of two Targaryens.  Her identity has been confirmed.  She is the Child Of Three from the Three-Head Dragon of the Targaryens.

Rhaegar and Mance are the best guesses as to the father of Jon Snow.  Though we cannot deny Ser Arthur knocking up Lyanna.  Brandon is in the mix as well if Lyanna was already carrying his child when she ran away.  Rickard was going to force her to abort. 

Arianne will commit Dorne to Aegon and the Blackfyres.  Their marriage will forge the bond.  The Martells will have a rebellion on their hands.  Gerrys and Arch committed their families to Daenerys.  Darkstar is the wildcard because we don't know who he will commit his house to.

 

Dany is TPWWP to the Targaryens but she is more than that to the people of Essos.  To them, Dany is Azor Ahai.  The kings with the light swords were her ancestors before they were Targaryens.  Each was Azor Ahai.  They have waited for her birth and the simultaneous rebirth of the dragons.  The timing needed to be right in order for Azor Ahai and the dragons to exists at the same time. 

[James West]

Dany is not a Dayne.  She comes from a long line of Valyrian dragonlords. 

I am doubtful if Lightbringer was a sword.  Anything long and glowing would qualify.  LB could have been a staff.  Gerold Darkstar Dayne will carry Dawn into battle even though he is not Azor Ahai.  He is the dominant Dayne and he will use the sword to fight alongside Dany, the dragons, and her allies. 

[AlaskanSandman]

On 12/21/2021 at 4:23 PM, James West said:

Dany is not a Dayne.  She comes from a long line of Valyrian dragonlords. 

I am doubtful if Lightbringer was a sword.  Anything long and glowing would qualify.  LB could have been a staff.  Gerold Darkstar Dayne will carry Dawn into battle even though he is not Azor Ahai.  He is the dominant Dayne and he will use the sword to fight alongside Dany, the dragons, and her allies. 

 

Quote

 

A Dance with Dragons - Daenerys III

I know one stands before me now, weeping mummer's tears. The realization made her sad.

"When I went to the Hall of a Thousand Thrones to beg the Pureborn for your life, I said that you were no more than a child," Xaro went on, "but Egon Emeros the Exquisite rose and said, 'She is a foolish child, mad and heedless and too dangerous to live.' When your dragons were small they were a wonder. Grown, they are death and devastation, a flaming sword above the world." He wiped away the tears. "I should have slain you in Qarth."

 

 

 

 

Not only is Dany's dragon's associated with a flaming sword.

 

 

Quote

 

A Clash of Kings - Bran V

"Osha," Bran asked as they crossed the yard. "Do you know the way north? To the Wall and . . . and even past?"

"The way's easy. Look for the Ice Dragon, and chase the blue star in the rider's eye." She backed through a door and started up the winding steps.

"And there are still giants there, and . . . the rest . . . the Others, and the children of the forest too?"

 

 

 

 

Quote

 

A Storm of Swords - Bran II

When they lost their way, as happened once or twice, they need only wait for a clear cold night when the clouds did not intrude, and look up in the sky for the Ice Dragon. The blue star in the dragon's eye pointed the way north, as Osha told him once. 

 

 

 

 

Quote

 

A Storm of Swords - Davos III

The flames do not lie, else you would not be here. It is written in prophecy as well. When the red star bleeds and the darkness gathers, Azor Ahai shall be born again amidst smoke and salt to wake dragons out of stone. The bleeding star has come and gone, and Dragonstone is the place of smoke and salt. Stannis Baratheon is Azor Ahai reborn!"

 

 

 

 

Quote

 

A Storm of Swords - Jon III

 

So many stars, he thought as he trudged up the slope through pines and firs and ash. Maester Luwin had taught him his stars as a boy in Winterfell; he had learned the names of the twelve houses of heaven and the rulers of each; he could find the seven wanderers sacred to the Faith; he was old friends with the Ice Dragon, the Shadowcat, the Moonmaid, and the Sword of the Morning.

 

 

 

The Dragons are associated with the Stars.  

 

Plus you have the Sword of the Morning, Dawn. Forged from a falling star. Different than the Ice Dragon, so maybe the Fire Dragon?

 

There is a lot of association between Daenerys and House Dayne. Along with Swords, stars, and her dragons. Especially if people see her as the Azor Ahai figure (Or Nissa Nissa), or the Prince(ss) that was promised, this just adds more connection to House Dayne. Who is genetically linked to Dragons and Nymeria (Who Martells share blood with). 

 

[AlaskanSandman]

As per Oberyn and his larger plots that we are left to guess at. The one I keep circling regarding slavers from the step stones going beyond the wall for slaves, and Mance Rayder possibly having something to do with this as motive to go south and make a deal with Rhaegar for a Red Silk sash for a promise. 

There is more to support this idea.

Mance Rayder served L.C Qorgyle when he served at the wall. Possibly leaving the watch upon Qorgyles death. With Mance Rayder being fathered by a Black brother upon a commoner, and kept, rather than dismissed as Craster was. Suggest that maybe Mance Rayder is the child of Qorgyle and why we see Mance attend him to Winterfell. 

House Qorgyle is from Dorne, and where Oberyn Martell was fostered as a child. Possibly having spent time with LC. Qorgyle before he went to the Wall, maybe not. He was close with the family though for sure. A Qorgyle also attends Oberyn to K.L. when he fights the Mountain. 

 

So Oberyn Martell, who would be concerned about Pirates in the Step Stones next to them, is associated with Qorgyle's who could know directly from the Wall, that Pirates are taking wildlings for slaves. Qorgyle, who may be Mance Rayder's father, who becomes King Beyond the Wall later to save his people. Qorgyle's Maester was Maester Aemon also, who is connected to Rhaegar. 

 

I swear, Oberyn has more spider webs that Varys and Baelish combined. 

 

 

[EggBlue]

not fully related ...but does anyone know where Oberyn was during the rebellion? 

he's not the kind of guy to sit in Sunspear when there is a war , but he was neither at the Trident nor Kingslanding ... though he was later in Sunspear to rally people for revenge.

sorry if this is a bit off-topic... but seriously, where was he?!

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight9]

1 minute ago, EggBlue said:

not fully related ...but does anyone know where Oberyn was during the rebellion? 

he's not the kind of guy to sit in Sunspear when there is a war , but he was neither at the Trident nor Kingslanding ... though he was later in Sunspear to rally people for revenge.

sorry if this is a bit off-topic... but seriously, where was he?!

I don't think that his whereabouts and location during the rebellion were told by Martin or any character in universe, though I have heard from some that he was working in a sellsword company in Essos at the time and came home after hearing what happened in Westeros. 

[EggBlue]

39 minutes ago, Terrorthatflapsinthenight9 said:

I don't think that his whereabouts and location during the rebellion were told by Martin or any character in universe, though I have heard from some that he was working in a sellsword company in Essos at the time and came home after hearing what happened in Westeros. 

I think his sellsword career was after Quentyn's fostering.

[Egged]

1 hour ago, EggBlue said:

not fully related ...but does anyone know where Oberyn was during the rebellion? 

he's not the kind of guy to sit in Sunspear when there is a war , but he was neither at the Trident nor Kingslanding ... though he was later in Sunspear to rally people for revenge.

sorry if this is a bit off-topic... but seriously, where was he?!

Trying to poison Lyanna.

[LynnS]

On 12/21/2021 at 10:39 AM, EggBlue said:

the biggest problem with tower of joy incident for me is not one, not two but three kingsgaurd were at the tower abandoning Aerys , Rhaella, Viserys , Aegon and Rhaenys presumably to follow a prince's orders to protect his unborn third child... all while they still believed they weren't breaking one single vow. and remember , they were at the tower long before Aerys or Aegon died, they didn't know if the the new child will be a boy and we have no clue of whether they were so into the prophecy stuff that they let go of their precious kingsgaurd-honor. therefore , I believe we cannot take Jon and Lyanna at tower of joy as an accepted fact. 

I've come to think that this last stand of the KG had more to do with their vows than anything else.  Ned says that Arthur Dayne was the finest knight that he has known and there is a recurring theme about what it means to be a true knight starting with the Dunk and Egg stories and carried through in Brienne and Jaimie's arcs.

Brienne says this:

Quote

A Feast for Crows - Brienne I

Jaime would not do that. He was sincere. He gave me the sword, and called it Oathkeeper. Anyway, it made no matter. She had promised Lady Catelyn that she would bring back her daughters, and no promise was as solemn as one sworn to the dead. The younger girl was long dead, Jaime claimed; the Arya the Lannisters sent north to marry Roose Bolton's bastard was a fraud. That left only Sansa. Brienne had to find her.

 She made this promise to Catelyn before she died and thinks it cannot be put aside after her death.

I think the KG at the ToJ take their vows as seriously as Brienne and they will not kneel to the usurper.  Their loyalty is still with Aerys even though he is dead and their vow as KG means that they will be loyal until their own death.

Edit:  Ned might be conjuring up this guilty dream of the KG because of promises he has not kept.

Quote

 

A Game of Thrones - Eddard XV

When he kept very still, his leg did not hurt so much, so he did his best to lie unmoving. For how long he could not say. There was no sun and no moon. He could not see to mark the walls. Ned closed his eyes and opened them; it made no difference. He slept and woke and slept again. He did not know which was more painful, the waking or the sleeping. When he slept, he dreamed: dark disturbing dreams of blood and broken promises. When he woke, there was nothing to do but think, and his waking thoughts were worse than nightmares. The thought of Cat was as painful as a bed of nettles. He wondered where she was, what she was doing. He wondered whether he would ever see her again.

 

 

[EggBlue]

9 hours ago, Egged said:

Trying to poison Lyanna.

that makes sense for him. yet I doubt it takes him near a year to find and poison Lyanna.

 

9 hours ago, LynnS said:

I've come to think that this last stand of the KG had more to do with their vows than anything else.  Ned says that Arthur Dayne was the finest knight that he has known and there is a recurring theme about what it means to be a true knight starting with the Dunk and Egg stories and carried through in Brienne and Jaimie's arcs.

Brienne says this:

 She made this promise to Catelyn before she died and thinks it cannot be put aside after her death.

I think the KG at the ToJ take their vows as seriously as Brienne and they will not kneel to the usurper.  Their loyalty is still with Aerys even though he is dead and their vow as KG means that they will be loyal until their own death.

Edit:  Ned might be conjuring up this guilty dream of the KG because of promises he has not kept.

 

I believe so too. these three were honorable by Ned's standards and that is exactly the point. we could assume the crown prince had ordered them to keep Lyanna and his child safe and kingsgaurd are bound to obey the royalty. we could even assume they still stayed at the tower instead of going to their king since they still saw themselves bound to the dead man's orders (though , I find it a little weird that all three stayed there when they must have known their sworn brothers had died alongside Rhaegar leaving Aerys and Rhaegar's heir with only one teenage white sword ). but what about afterwards? Lyanna and the child were definitely not in harm's way from Ned. if they feared for the boy they could take him as soon as he was born or even Lyanna who was still not in labor about a week or two before Ned arrived and go hide somewhere safe. but they stayed on a pointless suicide mission. 

 

and that only brings us to a little detail that ,too, bugs me.. how on earth could Howland and Ned defeat and kill Arthur Dayne? we see an old Barristan claiming that "I still can carve the five of you like cake" and he's probably quite right. and consider Barristan was saying that to 5 kingsgaurds ( granted, the white swords after rebellion aren't worthy in a traditional way but I highly doubt Robert B hadn't chosen fine swordsmen for the job) . now seven young inexperienced lordlings had killed 3 of the best knights in the realm (two of whom we can be sure to be better than Barristan) and two of them survived in one piece?! moreover , house Dayne have enough respect and admiration for the man who killed their brother to name their heir after him?.. I do hope George addresses these details and doesn't leave it to " kingsgaurd follow prince's orders" or " he gave them their family sword back!"

[AlaskanSandman]

11 hours ago, Terrorthatflapsinthenight9 said:

I don't think that his whereabouts and location during the rebellion were told by Martin or any character in universe, though I have heard from some that he was working in a sellsword company in Essos at the time and came home after hearing what happened in Westeros. 

Oberyn danced with Ashara Dayne at Harrenhal. I doubt he was off with sell swords. He was likely in Westeros.

The War started a month or two after Harrenhal.

 

 

I dont think the Tower of Joy is at all how Ned remembers it. I like the idea that William Dustin is mixed with Willum Darry in Dany's mind. The 4 missing Northmen are who helped break out Dany with Lord Dustin. 

 

 

[Egged]

The tower they were at was Queenscrown. The place was flooded with magic, it’s why no bodies were brought back. They were taking Lyanna north, probably to take her over the wall, but stopped there when she gave birth. Ned saw himself and his companions as wraiths: a magic spell to call a rush of water to stop the wraiths from taking the precious baby. It’s an echo of the ring wraiths being stopped by water magic as they sought the ring in LotR. Ned’s memories have been tampered with to hide the fact that the baby was being taken north. Ned feels guilt when it rains.

[AlaskanSandman]

1 minute ago, Egged said:

The tower they were at was Queenscrown. The place was flooded with magic, it’s why no bodies were brought back. They were taking Lyanna north, probably to take her over the wall, but stopped there when she gave birth. Ned saw himself and his companions as wraiths: a magic spell to call a rush of water to stop the wraiths from taking the precious baby. It’s an echo of the ring wraiths being stopped by water magic as they sought the ring in LotR. Ned’s memories have been tampered with to hide the fact that the baby was being taken north. Ned feels guilt when it rains.

Queen's crown has always struck me as odd. 

"Crowning" is a birthing term when the head starts to pop out.

[AlaskanSandman]

4 minutes ago, Egged said:

The tower they were at was Queenscrown. The place was flooded with magic, it’s why no bodies were brought back. They were taking Lyanna north, probably to take her over the wall, but stopped there when she gave birth. Ned saw himself and his companions as wraiths: a magic spell to call a rush of water to stop the wraiths from taking the precious baby. It’s an echo of the ring wraiths being stopped by water magic as they sought the ring in LotR. Ned’s memories have been tampered with to hide the fact that the baby was being taken north. Ned feels guilt when it rains.

Before GRRM changed Jaehaerys's kids and their names, I suspected his wife of birthing Gael the Winter Child at Queens Crown.

GRRM has since changed info and made that not possible. 

Still leaves Queen's Crown open to your suggestion.