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US Politics: Manchin Shin Drinks the Blood and Cracks the Bone


A True Kaniggit

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On 12/25/2021 at 8:05 PM, DireWolfSpirit said:

As I've long suspected, America"s so called labor shortage is a complete hoax.

What employers have been calling a shortage, is more readily explainable as age discrimination according to the latest participation rate statistics.

Three key numbers that explain America's labor shortage

https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/25/economy/labor-shortage-early-retirement-charts/index.html

Older workers have been forced out and then the companies, unwilling to employ older workers, claim there is no-one available. They want it both ways.

There's no replacements at the front door, because you've been busy pushing them out the backdoors.

There is no labor shortage, there's a flawed management problem with businesses unable to think outside the box or even more simply, to just overcome there ageism, bias and discrimination against workers over 54. Workers who are only participating at about 38% in the current workforce.

There are millions and millions of workers available in America. The companies that are able to compete need only to pull themselves up by the bootstraps and go out and get themselves those workers.

They may have to train themselves in new skills to find those workers, but they are out there, by the millions.

Enough with the lazy corporate excuses and whining.

I'm not surprised by this. It never meshed with the reality we know to be true in the U.S.: the majority of Americans have no savings. So, how could so many Americans in low-paying jobs choose not to work? I'm surprised Republicans never seized on this narrative. It seems like something that would have legs for their base. Over the holidays last week, I was still hearing that Biden was paying people to stay home even though expanded unemployment benefits went away.

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25 minutes ago, Centrist Simon Steele said:

I'm not surprised by this. It never meshed with the reality we know to be true in the U.S.: the majority of Americans have no savings. So, how could so many Americans in low-paying jobs choose not to work? I'm surprised Republicans never seized on this narrative. It seems like something that would have legs for their base. Over the holidays last week, I was still hearing that Biden was paying people to stay home even though expanded unemployment benefits went away.

100%.  There will always be a slew of economists ready to blame everything on the working class being too lazy to pad the pockets of the upper class.  And the media laps this shit up.

Also, wouldn't the alleged "free market" correct for this quickly by increasing wages?  Like, beyond the rate of inflation?  

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@Hooded Crow

I’m still curious as to who think could be successfully elected to the West Virigina US Senate seat who is “better than” Manchin.  
 

Manchin sucks, make no mistake, but he retains the catbird seat… because of the State he is elected from and the current political balance of the US Senate.  To take him out of the catbird seat another Republican needs to be taken out in 2022 and the Democrats retain all other seats.  There is no other way.

Manchin may be the last Democrat elected to the US Senate from West Virginia for some time to come.

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9 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

@Hooded Crow

I’m still curious as to who think could be successfully elected to the West Virigina US Senate seat who is “better than” Manchin.  
 

Manchin sucks, make no mistake, but he retains the catbird seat… because of the State he is elected from and the current political balance of the US Senate.  To take him out of the catbird seat another Republican needs to be taken out in 2022 and the Democrats retain all other seats.  There is no other way.

Manchin may be the last Democrat elected to the US Senate from West Virginia for some time to come.

Electorates change.  That may be true now but who the fuck knows what will happen.  I hope there is a strong primary challenger for Manchin.  In any senate other than a 50-50 one he doesn't matter so much.  West Virginia wasn't a republican stronghold until recently. 

Yeah, stoked he's been confirming judges.  Pissed he's another cog in the "prevent anything good from happening to the bottom 75% of America" machine.  Fuck him.

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13 minutes ago, Lermo T.I. Krrrammpus said:

Electorates change.  That may be true now but who the fuck knows what will happen.  I hope there is a strong primary challenger for Manchin.  In any senate other than a 50-50 one he doesn't matter so much.  West Virginia wasn't a republican stronghold until recently. 

Yeah, stoked he's been confirming judges.  Pissed he's another cog in the "prevent anything good from happening to the bottom 75% of America" machine.  Fuck him.

I’m not defending him.  I’m asking, pragmaticly, who else from West Virgina… who has a strong likelihood of winning election in West Virginia… is better than Manchin?  Is a leftist challenger in WV going to be elected to the US Senate in 2024?

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2 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

I’m not defending him.  I’m saying, pragmaticly, who else from West Virgina… who has a strong likelihood of winning election in West Virginia… is better than Manchin.  Is a leftist challenger in WV going to be elected to the US Senate in 2024?

Really, following Manchin and wondering who could replace him is a red herring.  The only effective way to reduce the impact a Joe Manchin has on Senate negotiations is to not be stuck with a 50/50 split in the Senate forcing you to rely on the Vice Presidency...

...now is the time to focus on Wisconsin, Ohio, Missouri, Pennsylvania, and the other areas where Senate seats can be snagged.  Maintaining Georgia, Arizona, Vermont...Joe Manchin's "power" stems from the numbers, not his positions, whatever those are this week.  

Worry less about replacing Manchin and more about making him irrelevant within the whole...

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24 minutes ago, Jaxom 1974 said:

Really, following Manchin and wondering who could replace him is a red herring.  The only effective way to reduce the impact a Joe Manchin has on Senate negotiations is to not be stuck with a 50/50 split in the Senate forcing you to rely on the Vice Presidency...

...now is the time to focus on Wisconsin, Ohio, Missouri, Pennsylvania, and the other areas where Senate seats can be snagged.  Maintaining Georgia, Arizona, Vermont...Joe Manchin's "power" stems from the numbers, not his positions, whatever those are this week.  

Worry less about replacing Manchin and more about making him irrelevant within the whole...

Precisely.  I fear Georgia will be hard to hold the line on.  Part of the win there was Trumpanistas listening to Lin “I’m Jesus” Wood and Sydney “Conspiracy for the win” Powell.

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1 hour ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

I’m not defending him.  I’m asking, pragmaticly, who else from West Virgina… who has a strong likelihood of winning election in West Virginia… is better than Manchin?  Is a leftist challenger in WV going to be elected to the US Senate in 2024?

2024 is 2 years out.  I'm not sure its the most pragmatic thing to be worrying about.  Also, confirming judges isn't gonna mean shit in 2025 if Trump or DesSantis or Skeletrex are nominating judges.  Fuck, Manchin  it's to confirm Kavanaugh.  It's not like there's actually been effort or pressure internally do support some other challenger.  

"Who else is there" is a weak question.

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The cruelty is the point. We see it time after time in operation among the shoggoths, who have been showing us the same faces we see on the postcards from the Jim Crow Lynching era made from photographs at lynchings, the photographs and newsreels of their white faces during the Civil Rights era.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/21/books/cruelty-is-point-adam-serwer.html

Quote

 

... Serwer argues that there’s a difference between a byproduct and an organizing principle — between cruelty as fallout and cruelty for its own sake.

For any Americans who had been idealistic about their country’s idealism, it was this — an almost festive belligerence — that made Trumpism feel new. But Serwer describes Trumpism as an eruption of something very old in American politics — a long history of white supremacy that has nourished itself on others’ misery. He sees a connection between the gleeful crowds at Trump’s rallies, cheering on calls to violence, with the white people grinning beside mutilated Black victims in lynching photos. In both cases it is a cruelty that binds a community; it laughs and rejoices, unburdened by expressions of guilt. ....

 

It wasn't passive resistance that stopped either of those -- and by golly it's never really gone away, and now it's the rule about everything from sitting in one's own home and being shot dead by a drunken cop to spreading covid.

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2 hours ago, Lermo T.I. Krrrammpus said:

2024 is 2 years out.  I'm not sure its the most pragmatic thing to be worrying about.  Also, confirming judges isn't gonna mean shit in 2025 if Trump or DesSantis or Skeletrex are nominating judges.  Fuck, Manchin  it's to confirm Kavanaugh.  It's not like there's actually been effort or pressure internally do support some other challenger.  

"Who else is there" is a weak question.

Why is who else is there a “weak question”?  What is going to change in West Virginia in three years to change from the Reddest state in the US?

And, again, Manchin sucks.  But there no one else better who has a snowballs chance in hell of being elected from WV to the US Senate from the left of the Democratic Party.

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13 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Why is who else is there a “weak question”?  What is going to change in West Virginia in three years to change from the Reddest state in the US?

And, again, Manchin sucks.  But there no one else better who has a snowballs chance in hell of being elected from WV to the US Senate from the left of the Democratic Party.

 

I don't know Scot, I don't see into the future.  But acting like Manchin is some inevitability right now seems absolutely defeatist.  You may well be right.  But shit, that's a couple years away.

Hooded Crow said we need someone better than Manchin.  If you're looking for a name or something, I'd say "anyone who runs against him".  He just wasted a year dicking around and lying to his own party.

 

 

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7 minutes ago, Lermo T.I. Krrrammpus said:

 

I don't know Scot, I don't see into the future.  But acting like Manchin is some inevitability right now seems absolutely defeatist.  You may well be right.  But shit, that's a couple years away.

Hooded Crow said we need someone better than Manchin.  If you're looking for a name or something, I'd say "anyone who runs against him".  He just wasted a year dicking around and lying to his own party.

 

 

Yes.  And there is literally nothing anyone in the Democratic Party can do about but bitch.  I’d much prefer to see concrete efforts to win where winning is possible than pipe dreams about losing the seat by primarying Manchin.

I’d still like to know why he grouped Mondale with third party spoilers?

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38 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Yes.  And there is literally nothing anyone in the Democratic Party can do about but bitch.  I’d much prefer to see concrete efforts to win where winning is possible than pipe dreams about losing the seat by primarying Manchin.

I’d still like to know why he grouped Mondale with third party spoilers?

The question, "Who else is there" doesn't make sense to me. How would we know who else there is until someone decides to challenge Manchin. Lots of good potential candidates could be out there--and potentially could primary Manchin and win his seat without being in the national spotlight. I have to believe people in Joe Crowley's district that were fed up with him were often met with a similar refrain: "who else is there?" Who knows--we can only know if someone (or many someones) decide to primary him. 

ETA: There is a huge activist movement in WV searching for potential challengers right now. I'd imagine they will provide you with an answer in the next year or two.

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Okay, I goes very tired of macho spouting guys winning over more capable, cognitively able, men or women. Bush W was AWOL, but, you know, mission accomplished and screw the climate. Mondale was neurologically intact( and impressive) but was was beaten by the Grandfather Reagan act. Republicans seem to like impaired leaders. Nixon was a creep and it is hard to know how he won anything, except by name recognition, Republican chest thumping, and early Trumpers, who enjoy lying, flouting the law and violent speech. Roger Stone has an enormous Nixon tattoo on his back, and he is still involved. Wow. Euww. Jimmy Carter is a great man, but The People don’t like that! Hilary was several million better than Trump. She tried to get health care reformed. Americans lose their stuff. Biden tried to get campaign finance control. But no, our freedumbs. Now we have Very Conservative judges, who really want women to be conservative Catholics, and have whatever, whenever, at their expense and extra shame, unless your parents are rich enough to get you service. Trump is disgusting( probably bribed his way through school and is not even a Christian) and he is still supported. The KKK is having a renaissance, and now we have grinning white cultists, who proudly bring their guns. George McGovern…you guys had a chance. I am trying to think of a decent Republican and they probably existed before I was born. 

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8 minutes ago, Centrist Simon Steele said:

The question, "Who else is there" doesn't make sense to me. How would we know who else there is until someone decides to challenge Manchin. Lots of good potential candidates could be out there--and potentially could primary Manchin and win his seat without being in the national spotlight. I have to believe people in Joe Crowley's district that were fed up with him were often met with a similar refrain: "who else is there?" Who knows--we can only know if someone (or many someones) decide to primary him. 

ETA: There is a huge activist movement in WV searching for potential challengers right now. I'd imagine they will provide you with an answer in the next year or two.

How many Statewide and Federal elected positions are held by leftist Democrats in West Virginia?

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17 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

How many Statewide and Federal elected positions are held by leftist Democrats in West Virginia?

You're trying to reason with people who are deliberately choosing not to acknowledge reality. Such phrases as "I have to believe." And "that seems defeatist." In response to remindings of observable facts indicates that a wishful attitude and disregard for the practicalities of the situation is a prerequisite for achieving the stated goal. 

The idealistic ends justify any misstep in its pursuit, no matter how predictable the errors or impossible the goal. 

Start with what you wish to be possible and lash out wildly from there. Anything less is a failure of personal will, circumstances be damned. 

Hmm, where have I seen this kind of attitude before?

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