US Politics: Manchin Shin Drinks the Blood and Cracks the Bone

[DMC]

26 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

He did.

Let's also recall in the second week of Biden's presidency Manchin got royally pissed after Harris did a series of TV interviews with West Virginia affiliates.

[Tywin et al.]

1 minute ago, DMC said:

Let's also recall in the second week of Biden's presidency Manchin got royally pissed after Harris did a series of TV interviews with West Virginia affiliates.

There's also that and probably a hundred other things they tried. Look, I very loudly said if progressives did a, b and c they would fail badly and deserve the blame, but they instead sucked it up and did x, y and z and it still wasn't enough. Manchin is the villain here and deserves all the poison being sent in his direction. 

1 hour ago, 1066 Larry said:

I can't either, but at some point you have to realize you're either being played, or really being played.  I also wouldn't put any gross incompetence past the Dems.  The shit with Schumer's secret letter seems like the kind of BS cover that lends credence to Manchin not being the only one who didn't support it, but the only one who wouldn't suffer for it.

I've been of two minds on this issue, but the last few days have put it to rest. There are a number of more moderate Dem senators than we typically acknowledge, yet for the most part they all agreed to the deal, largely sight unseen, that had a price tag I would have thought they would scoff at. And in the last few days many of them have been saying publicly in a polite way, "Fuck you, Joe." That signals to me that while they probably had some doubts about it, they were willing to do what Biden needed. Only two people went against it, and it's appeared for weeks now the Sinema may not have actually wanted the smoke she caught for all of her bullshit. Manchin is the one fucking everyone over and does not seem to care about his fellow party members or more importantly, his own god damn constituents. 

[Larry of the Lake]

51 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

He did.

I promise you they did several times. 

And then ran away with their tails between their legs.

23 minutes ago, DMC said:

Let's also recall in the second week of Biden's presidency Manchin got royally pissed after Harris did a series of TV interviews with West Virginia affiliates.

And they just kowtowed to him.

[DMC]

15 minutes ago, 1066 Larry said:

And they just kowtowed to him.

Well, of course they did, as they should have.  They were selling the stimulus bill which - other than a minor 11th hour hiccup - Manchin fully supported.  The point is all it served to do is piss him off.  I guarantee you Manchin is not concerned about AOC, Warren, Harris, Sanders, or even Biden influencing the West Virginian electorate.  The tactic is - at best - ineffectual in the second reddest state in the country.

[A Horse Named Stranger]

6 minutes ago, DMC said:

Well, of course they did, as they should have.  They were selling the stimulus bill which - other than a minor 11th hour hiccup - Manchin fully supported.  The point is all it served to do is piss him off.  I guarantee you Manchin is not concerned about AOC, Warren, Harris, Sanders, or even Biden influencing the West Virginian electorate.  The tactic is - at best - ineffectual in the second reddest state in the country.

Redder than, North and South Dakota, SC, Alabama and Oklahoma or Mississippi?

Semi-serious question.

[Altherion]

1 minute ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

Redder than, North and South Dakota, SC, Alabama and Oklahoma or Mississippi?

Semi-serious question.

Yes. In the 2020 Presidential election, the only state that went more Republican is Wyoming.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

28 minutes ago, 1066 Larry said:

And then ran away with their tails between their legs.

What could they do to compel Manchin if he was a hard “no”?  I’m really curious.

[DMC]

32 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

That signals to me that while they probably had some doubts about it, they were willing to do what Biden needed.

Yeah this "Manchin is providing cover" myth really needs to be put to bed.  Here are statements from the "moderates" he purportedly could be providing cover to:

Jon Tester:

Quote

There's going to be some changes. I'm going to compare it to what Montana needs and and that's going to be where I focus on. But look, we're dealing with reasonable people here. I think we can come up with a bill that is a very, very good bill that works for states like Montana and other states in the area

Jeanne Shaheen:

Quote

Today, Democrats took a giant step forward on behalf of working families in New Hampshire and throughout the nation. This legislation builds on Democrats’ determination to deliver assistance to our states and put money in the pockets of middle-class families, first through the American Rescue Plan and now through Build Back Better. This legislation includes meaningful policies that rightly put our families first by reducing costs, cutting taxes and investing in the future of our economy so we can create a brighter, stronger tomorrow

Angus King:

Quote

The Build Back Better package will be the GI Bill for the 21st century, making key investments in America's greatest asset - our people - through funding for child care, universal pre-K, and more. 

Mark Warner:

Quote

After months of work, I’m encouraged that the White House has reached an agreement on a transformative budget reconciliation package to reduce child and home health care costs, invest in clean energy, combat the effects of climate change, and make life a little easier and more affordable for hardworking Americans and Virginia families. While this framework leaves room for future action on critical needs like paid family leave, I’m pleased that it does include significant investments in affordable housing and measures to close the racial wealth gap that I fought hard to include. I look forward to working with my colleagues and President Biden to get this fully paid-for framework signed into law.

Tim Kaine:

Quote

“I’m thrilled the House has passed the Build Back Better bill, getting this historic legislation one step closer to becoming law,” said Senator Kaine. “This legislation will make pre-K universal, expand affordable child care, and boost job training programs to help workers get the jobs that will be created by the bipartisan infrastructure bill. This legislation will position working families and children for success for years to come.”

The only one with any equivocation is Tester, and he is certainly not one that would seek cover.  If he had any serious concerns, Jon Tester would not be shy about telling anyone.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

5 minutes ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

Redder than, North and South Dakota, SC, Alabama and Oklahoma or Mississippi?

Semi-serious question.

Yes.

[DMC]

6 minutes ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

Redder than, North and South Dakota, SC, Alabama and Oklahoma or Mississippi?

 

4 minutes ago, Altherion said:

Yes. In the 2020 Presidential election, the only state that went more Republican is Wyoming.

In addition, its Cook PVI (which, granted, is based on the last two presidential elections) is R+23.  Wyoming is first at R+26, and North Dakota and Oklahoma are tied for third at R+20.

[Kalnestk Oblast]

2 hours ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

You think they didn’t try?  You think they didn’t put as much pressure as they could on a Senator who, because of the vagaries of elections, is literally sitting in the catbird seat?

What else could have been done to push Manchin?

No, I don't think they did, and I also think they did a bad job of lying that they could move him. 

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

4 minutes ago, Kalsandra said:

No, I don't think they did, and I also think they did a bad job of lying that they could move him. 

Then you think the leadership of the Democratic Party is made up of brain dead idiots?  Because that’s the only way they never laid the skunk on the table and asked Manchin what he wanted.

[Kalnestk Oblast]

Just now, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Then you think the leadership of the Democratic Party is made up of brain dead idiots?  Because that’s the only way they never laid the skunk on the table and asked Manchin what he wanted.

Some? Given that Manchin already came out with what he wants and how it differed and they still pushed this fiction of negotiation with him I am not sure what to say to you here. 

Manchin sucks hard for continuing the process of negotiation. Leadership sucks hard for not putting their foot down and figuring out they were getting catfished. Progressives did everything the right way, went along with leadership and got fucked without lube.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

7 minutes ago, Kalsandra said:

Some? Given that Manchin already came out with what he wants and how it differed and they still pushed this fiction of negotiation with him I am not sure what to say to you here. 

Manchin sucks hard for continuing the process of negotiation. Leadership sucks hard for not putting their foot down and figuring out they were getting catfished. Progressives did everything the right way, went along with leadership and got fucked without lube.

Fair enough.

[Ormond]

3 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

You're practically a dinosaur in my eyes. 

Well then I guess since I'm 70 I must be a trilobite.

[Tywin et al.]

5 minutes ago, Ormond said:

Well then I guess since I'm 70 I must be a trilobite.

Nah, given the life you've lived I think you can claim "god mode" status at this point in time. 

[Tywin et al.]

1 hour ago, 1066 Larry said:

And then ran away with their tails between their legs.

I don't know what more you can ask of them. It appears they tried damn near everything that wouldn't completely alienate him. You can drag a horse to water, but you can't force it to drink, after all. 

 

[DMC]

36 minutes ago, Kalsandra said:

Progressives did everything the right way, went along with leadership and got fucked without lube.

I think you're being a little too hard on the leadership here/eliding how much Manchin straight up bullshitted them too, but I forgot to mention this in my response to TGU re: progressives.  The progressives are the only ones that come out of this looking good.  They were proven right, and I strongly suspect your average, even "moderate" Democrat today is thinking (if they've been paying attention of course) "seems like they should have listened to them."

[Fragile Bird]

Good grief, there’s so much (understandable) anger in this thread I had to skip over pages of it.

[goes to the corner and weeps for American friends]

[Week]

5 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

Good grief, there’s so much (understandable) anger in this thread I had to skip over pages of it.

[goes to the corner and weeps for American friends]

Fortunately, things are bound to improve with the upcoming omicron-winter, losing the house and Senate, and Breyer staying on the bench throughout. Really setting up for a barn burner.