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Is there something you fell that would ruins the story for you?


Odej

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Something that isn't even inconsistent with the story, actually makes sense, but that you just hate the possibility. For me it's A+J=T. I doubt it will happen for many reasons, but since there are so many clues pointing to this theory and since George can always work around it, the fear never goes away.

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any of the Lannisters being Aerys's... it ruins the perfect irony in Tywin's relationship with Tyrion and it'll downplay incest in J&C's case.

B+L=J.. because.. just.. GROSS

all the women in the series end up either mad or dead. 

AA and NN story gets repeated somewhat the same and AA presented as the hero. I mean seriously ..that guy was a jerk!

 

 

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4 hours ago, Odej said:

Something that isn't even inconsistent with the story, actually makes sense, but that you just hate the possibility. For me it's A+J=T. I doubt it will happen for many reasons, but since there are so many clues pointing to this theory and since George can always work around it, the fear never goes away.

 

3 hours ago, EggBlue said:

any of the Lannisters being Aerys's... it ruins the perfect irony in Tywin's relationship with Tyrion and it'll downplay incest in J&C's case.

I absolutely despise A+J=T.  It undercuts Tywin's hatred of Tyrion, by giving it the legitimization that he wasn't Tywin's son at all, let alone the closest child in following in his abilities.

A + J = J + C I can tolerate more, as I at least feel like it adds to that irony, even if I believe it's impossible from book knowledge.

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3 hours ago, JonSnow4President said:

 

I absolutely despise A+J=T.  It undercuts Tywin's hatred of Tyrion, by giving it the legitimization that he wasn't Tywin's son at all, let alone the closest child in following in his abilities.

A + J = J + C I can tolerate more, as I at least feel like it adds to that irony, even if I believe it's impossible from book knowledge.

Totally agree about hating A + J = T

And A+J= J+C would be perfect. It explains so much about the twins, and it adds a whole new layer to Tywin’s relationship with his children.

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13 hours ago, Phylum of Alexandria said:

I hope Dany doesn't fall too far into villainy. And I hope Jon doesn't kill Dany, either because she's a villain or because she's Nissa Nissa.

 

I don't think she will end up being a villain.  I do think she may sacrifice herself out of love for the sake of the world. Moqorro may be right that she will be the savior they need but not in the way the red religions imagines.  She may cleanse the world of darkness, death and hate but in a spectacular way that involves returning the world to its natural order.  This could involve cleansing and transforming the soul of ice, the ancient enemy that threatens the world.

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Fan service.

I blame the mess in AFfC/ADwD to GRRM's interactions with the fans and the encouragement he got from them about Martells, Greyjoys, Brienne, Meereen etc. If he does the same thing for TWoW, the series will be ruined beyond repair.

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  • Not getting a full understanding of why the seasons are so messed up and why the Others are othering.
  • Not getting a full understanding of all of the different magic systems
  • Southern Westeros not being at all affected by the Long Night
  • The villains of the series being rewarded and unapologetically outliving the heroes of the series.

 

17 hours ago, EggBlue said:

any of the Lannisters being Aerys's... it ruins the perfect irony in Tywin's relationship with Tyrion and it'll downplay incest in J&C's case.

 

18 hours ago, Phylum of Alexandria said:

I hope Dany doesn't fall too far into villainy. And I hope Jon doesn't kill Dany, either because she's a villain or because she's Nissa Nissa.

 

All of these.

If Dany is to fall into villainy? It's already too late for that: if you wanted to start the slide, you should've started in the second half of Dance. Now, if that's what you want to do, you have to do a lot of work in these last two books to make it resonate. Particularly in the first half of Winds.

Because as of now, Dany is very, very far away from being a villain worse than the Mountain, Euron, Littlefinger or Ramsay.

I don't mind the Othello/Desdemona dynamic between Jon and Dany. Especially if Bran is caught between them and Tyrion is being the Iago of the situation. It's sad and upsetting but it makes for good literature.

Just don't glorify it as something bittersweet or as something righteous. If it happens, it'd be a downright tragedy and a horror. Don't downplay the tragedy.

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11 minutes ago, BlackLightning said:
  • Not getting a full understanding of why the seasons are so messed up and why the Others are othering.
  • Not getting a full understanding of all of the different magic systems
  • Southern Westeros not being at all affected by the Long Night
  • The villains of the series being rewarded and unapologetically outliving the heroes of the series.

 

 

All of these.

If Dany is to fall into villainy? It's already too late for that: if you wanted to start the slide, you should've started in the second half of Dance. Now, if that's what you want to do, you have to do a lot of work in these last two books to make it resonate. Particularly in the first half of Winds.

Because as of now, Dany is very, very far away from being a villain worse than the Mountain, Euron, Littlefinger or Ramsay.

I don't mind the Othello/Desdemona dynamic between Jon and Dany. Especially if Bran is caught between them and Tyrion is being the Iago of the situation. It's sad and upsetting but it makes for good literature.

Just don't glorify it as something bittersweet or as something righteous. If it happens, it'd be a downright tragedy and a horror. Don't downplay the tragedy.

Amen.

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There are many hidden plotlines in ASOIAF, concerning which majority of the readers don't even realise that they are there. I hope that in the following books GRRM will bring those plotlines out on the surface, for the readers to finally notice their existence. I will be totally disappointed if, even by the end of the series, I will be remaining the only reader who saw those hidden plotlines. Because I want to discuss them with the others. And how can I do that, if the others are unaware about all those secrets, that GRRM has concealed in ASOIAF's subplot? I can't. Thus, if GRRM will continue, until the very end, writing those plotlines in stealth-mode, and won't explain to the other readers what is what, then there will be no one with whom I would be able to talk about those topics, even when the series will end. That would be a huge let down. HUGE.

P.S. Considering that the next year is the Year of the Tiger, and the tigers are an important part in one of those "secret subplots", I have high hopes that GRRM will release (or at least will complete writing) TWOW in 2022.

1 hour ago, BlackLightning said:

Because as of now, Dany is very, very far away from being a villain worse than the Mountain, Euron, Littlefinger or Ramsay.

Though that could be easily changed, if the Faceless Men will begin intoxicating Dany with basilisk blood, how they were doing it to Viserys and King Aerys. This way Dany could become a Mad Queen in the blink of an eye. So if in the following books Dany will suddenly begin behaving irrationally, then it will mean that the Faceless Men again had inserted one of their people into Dany's entorage. Could even be that the Sealord is grooming Arya to infiltrate Dany's court, while Dany will be on her way to the 7K. So it will be Arya who will turn Dany into another "crazy" Targaryen. 

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I never got the hate A+J=T seems to get. Most of it centering around somehow "ruining" Tyrion's relationship with Tywin. IMO it wouldn't change a thing, both of them are complicated people, and it doesn't "legitimize" Tywin's behavior at all. Regardless, I doubt it'll be spelled out or effect the story. All the clues are laid out as a glorified easter(dragon?) egg essentially. 

Anyway, the biggest thing that would make me nope out on the series is a rushed, forced ending just to meat a deadline. A certain other medium took this approach and the results showed. I think not getting a satisfactory explanation for things like the Others, the long seasons, the rise and fall of magic and dragons in the world, would all fall into this category. 

It's not so much what you do but how you do it. I can deal with Dany going evil or most anything else, so much as it's done well and meaningfully to the story.

Except for Lady Stoneheart. Screw that abomination, I hope Jaime and Brienne kill it with fire in chapter one and let poor Catelyn rest in peace. Every chapter that thing gets is akin to slow character assassination. 

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I don't think I'll be disappointed and I think Martin will pay off his narrative debts to readers in a way that satisfies.  But there are things that drive me batty.  Like this:

Quote

 

A Dance with Dragons - Tyrion VIII

"Someone told me that the night is dark and full of terrors. What do you see in those flames?"

"Dragons," Moqorro said in the Common Tongue of Westeros. He spoke it very well, with hardly a trace of accent. No doubt that was one reason the high priest Benerro had chosen him to bring the faith of R'hllor to Daenerys Targaryen. "Dragons old and young, true and false, bright and dark. And you. A small man with a big shadow, snarling in the midst of all."

 

I'd like some answers about R'hllor.  Mel insists that he exists and Jaqen calls R'Hllor "him of fire".   So what is he?

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22 hours ago, Mithras said:

Fan service.

I blame the mess in AFfC/ADwD to GRRM's interactions with the fans and the encouragement he got from them about Martells, Greyjoys, Brienne, Meereen etc. If he does the same thing for TWoW, the series will be ruined beyond repair.

If you don’t mind me asking, which things in both books were encouraged by fan service. Because this is something I didn’t know about and I am quite curious about it. I wouldnt doubt with the hype Grrm got with his series (mainly due to the show), he would happily and blindly allow the fans to slightly guide his narrative.

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2 hours ago, LynnS said:

I don't think I'll be disappointed and I think Martin will pay off his narrative debts to readers in a way that satisfies.  But there are things that drive me batty.  Like this:

I'd like some answers about R'hllor.  Mel insists that he exists and Jaqen calls R'Hllor "him of fire".   So what is he?

He seems to be master of shadow and fire so in my head canon He is a balrog.

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