Is there something you fell that would ruins the story for you?

[Quoth the raven,]

The story will be a disappointment for me if Bran turns out to be other than the leading villain in the story.  I expect Bran to become the Great Other and the lord of the corpses.  I see and want Bran to become a sick and twisted thing who has a deep bitterness for the Freys, Boltons, and Lannisters.  He will use his powers for evil.  

[Phylum of Alexandria]

2 hours ago, Quoth the raven, said:

The story will be a disappointment for me if Bran turns out to be other than the leading villain in the story.  I expect Bran to become the Great Other and the lord of the corpses.  I see and want Bran to become a sick and twisted thing who has a deep bitterness for the Freys, Boltons, and Lannisters.  He will use his powers for evil.  

In that case, I'm willing to put money on your eventual disappointment!

Bran's ADWD chapters are unquestionably dark in tone, and his constant warging of Hodor is creepy, but he's also a well meaning kid who doesn't quite fathom what he's doing. He will stumble, for sure,  but my money is that, even as an omniscient god-king, he will be a crucial element in there ever being a real dream of spring by the story's end.

[BlackLightning]

21 hours ago, Phylum of Alexandria said:

Amen.

Thanks.

And with all of the buildup and development of Essos, I think I would be very pissed that if we never see or hear from Essos again in the last book.

Essos needs to either be seen as a source of Dany's power (both logistically, financially and militarily), as a place that is also suffering from the Long Night, as a haven for the Westerosi or any of the above.

If Dany wrongfully dies or is murdered at the end of the story, then her domains in Essos (and maybe Sothryos which might sympathize with Dany's movement) should completely cut ties with Westeros. It should produce such a severe trade embargo that would really plunge Westeros into the Dark Ages....at which point Bran and the Starks would be their only hope.

20 hours ago, Megorova said:

There are many hidden plotlines in ASOIAF, concerning which majority of the readers don't even realise that they are there. I hope that in the following books GRRM will bring those plotlines out on the surface, for the readers to finally notice their existence. I will be totally disappointed if, even by the end of the series, I will be remaining the only reader who saw those hidden plotlines. Because I want to discuss them with the others. And how can I do that, if the others are unaware about all those secrets, that GRRM has concealed in ASOIAF's subplot? I can't. Thus, if GRRM will continue, until the very end, writing those plotlines in stealth-mode, and won't explain to the other readers what is what, then there will be no one with whom I would be able to talk about those topics, even when the series will end. That would be a huge let down. HUGE.

P.S. Considering that the next year is the Year of the Tiger, and the tigers are an important part in one of those "secret subplots", I have high hopes that GRRM will release (or at least will complete writing) TWOW in 2022.

Though that could be easily changed, if the Faceless Men will begin intoxicating Dany with basilisk blood, how they were doing it to Viserys and King Aerys. This way Dany could become a Mad Queen in the blink of an eye. So if in the following books Dany will suddenly begin behaving irrationally, then it will mean that the Faceless Men again had inserted one of their people into Dany's entorage. Could even be that the Sealord is grooming Arya to infiltrate Dany's court, while Dany will be on her way to the 7K. So it will be Arya who will turn Dany into another "crazy" Targaryen. 

The tigers?

As in the Volantene warhawks? Do tell.

 

The Faceless Men intoxicating Dany with basilisk blood. Well, shit. Besides being absolutely bonkers (and somewhat feasible and probable), it makes the whole Dany story 1000x more tragic.

The only problem is that there is no buildup or information about basilisk blood.

[Phylum of Alexandria]

3 minutes ago, BlackLightning said:

Well, shit. Besides being absolutely bonkers (and somewhat feasible and probable), it makes the whole Dany story 1000x more tragic.

As an aside about basilisk blood, its inclusion in actual older alchemical writings is thought to be a coded reference to menstrual blood. The fact that GRRM's basilisk blood sends people and dogs into violent rages is....unfortunate, as if it were a demonic version of PMS. Hopefully GRRM is ignorant of that context and it's just a coincidence!

As for BasiliskBloodGate, that's certainly a first for me. Pretty confident it's a no-go.

[BlackLightning]

6 minutes ago, Phylum of Alexandria said:

As an aside about basilisk blood, its inclusion in actual older alchemical writings is thought to be a coded reference to menstrual blood. The fact that GRRM's basilisk blood sends people and dogs into violent rages is....unfortunate, as if it were a demonic version of PMS. Hopefully GRRM is ignorant of that context and it's just a coincidence!

As for BasiliskBloodGate, that's certainly a first for me. Pretty confident it's a no-go.

Yeah.

Unfortunate is a good word.

Last thing we need is for all of the women in the series to be batshit crazy or beyond traumatized. Yeah, @Megorova if this is true, I don't want it because the implication is not good. Not good at all.

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight9]

Also aside from Tyrion being Aerys' son, another secret parentage theory is hate and that would piss me off if it comes true is the theory of Daenerys being Arthur Dayne's daughter with Rhaella having had an affair with the Sword of the Morning even if there is zero hint or evidence about the two having any interest in each other.

[Jaenara Belarys]

3 hours ago, Loose Bolt said:

He seems to be master of shadow and fire so in my head canon He is a balrog.

Fool of a Took! You awoke a Balrog!

[PrettyLittlePsycho]

Pretty much anything the show did seasons 6-8.

But if I had to pick a favorite it´s King Bran.

[Moiraine Sedai]

42 minutes ago, PrettyLittlePsycho said:

Pretty much anything the show did seasons 6-8.

But if I had to pick a favorite it´s King Bran.

That was a let-down. It turned me off so that I may not watch the coming shows. I know, different producers, can mean a better story.

[The Bard of Banefort]

I don’t know if it would ruin the series for me, but if Sansa has sex with Littlefinger in any capacity, it’ll disgust me. George made it sound like we won’t have to worry about her getting raped, so at least there’s that. Also anything near as bad as the Sansa/Arya season 7 fight would be frustrating. I’m sure they’ll have some things to work out, but that doesn’t mean they have to be enemies.

[Megorova]

4 hours ago, BlackLightning said:

The only problem is that there is no buildup or information about basilisk blood.

When Arya became an acolyte in the FM Guild, the Waif explained to her how various poisons work, and that's when Arya realised that Jaqen killed Weese by poisoning his dog with basilisk blood - the dog became crazy and killed her own master.

Basilisk venom was amongst the other potions in maester Pycelle's collection. Tyrion saw it there. Then on Tyrion's trial it was mentioned again. If I interpreted correctly what they were talking about during the trial, why did those people brought to show to judges specifically those potions, is because those 8 substances were missing from Pycelle's stores. Though Tyrion took from there only one bottle, and it wasn't basilisk's venom, it was something else. So the other possibly missing potions were stolen from Pycelle's stores by someone else. By a Faceless Man, who was stationed at the Red Keep, and who was running out of his own potions.

The Faceless Men infiltrated Targaryen court since the Doom of Valyria, and were killing Targaryens, Baratheons, Velaryons and their dragonseed-relatives for centuries afterwards. For example, the FM killed 11 out of 13 children of Jaehaerys I.

Also they were poisoning certain Targaryens with vasilisk blood. Thanks to which they created a legend that supposedly Targaryens are affected by their own brand of madness. Examples - Maegor the Cruel, Aerion Brightflame, Aerys II, Dany's brother - Viserys, Joffrey Baratheon (the FM were poisoning him too, because they didn't knew that Joffrey wasn't Robert's son. They thought that he was, and thus they thought that he was a dragonseed, and thus the Sealord "tossed the coin", and it was decided by the Guild that Joffrey should be made into one of the "mad" dragonseeds).

And some other Targaryens were poisoned by the FM with other substances that made them "brain damaged" (?) - turned them into lackwits, simple minded, deficient (mentally and intellectually). Examples - Gael the Winter Child, Vaella - daughter of prince Daeron, the first wife of Aegon III - Jaehaera, prince Rhaegel who was dancing naked in the halls of the Red Keep, possibly Tommen Baratheon (because about him the FM also didn't knew that he is not one of the dragonseeds).

I was reading a book written based on author's own experience (it was ~20 years ago, so I don't remember the books' title, nor the author's name). It was an old book, written in ~18-early 20 centuary. The author was a political prisoner, and the officials in that prison were adding into the food some sort of chemical substances, that made the prisoners to become slow, docile, dimwitted. And if that substance was used on them regularly, or for an extended period of time, then afterwards it caused them permanent neurological (brain) damage, and turned them into simpletons.

So the Faceless Men in ASOIAF were also using something like that to turn certain dragonseeds into lackwits. To diminish their population.

Whenever a new Targaryen was born, the Sealord of Braavos was tossing a coin, and based on what side did it fell, it was decided whether the Faceless Men, stationed at the Targaryen court, will be poisoning this specific Targaryen with basilisk blood, or with that other substance, or whether this Targ should be killed, how and when, or whether he/she should be left untouched. Aerys II and Viserys were poisoned with basilisk blood, and concerning Dany, it seems that it was decided to leave her be. For now.

Quote

AFFC, Jaime II

A king has no secrets from his Kingsguard. Relations between Aerys and his queen had been strained during the last years of his reign. They slept apart and did their best to avoid each other during the waking hours. But whenever Aerys gave a man to the flames, Queen Rhaella would have a visitor in the night. The day he burned his mace-and-dagger Hand, Jaime and Jon Darry had stood at guard outside her bedchamber whilst the king took his pleasure. "You're hurting me," they had heard Rhaella cry through the oaken door. "You're hurting me." In some queer way, that had been worse than Lord Chelsted's screaming. "We are sworn to protect her as well," Jaime had finally been driven to say. "We are," Darry allowed, "but not from him."

Jaime had only seen Rhaella once after that, the morning of the day she left for Dragonstone. The queen had been cloaked and hooded as she climbed inside the royal wheelhouse that would take her down Aegon's High Hill to the waiting ship, but he heard her maids whispering after she was gone. They said the queen looked as if some beast had savaged her, clawing at her thighs and chewing on her breasts. A crowned beast, Jaime knew.

The real Jonothor Darry was killed and replaced by a Faceless Man, who was occasionally poisoning King Aerys with basilisk blood, which caused Aerys to have bouts of madness. It seems that Gerold Hightower and Oswell Whent also were "replacements".

Then the FM, who was posing as Jonothor Darry, after the Battle at Trident, where he faked his death by taking off Jonothor's face and putting it on a corpse of some other guy who died on that battlefield, went to Jonothor's brother - Willem Darry, killed him too, took his face and went to Dragonstone, where he picked up Dany and Viserys, and took them to Braavos. Five years later he again faked his death, and it appears that now he is the Sealord of Braavos, who is also Arya's Kindly Man.

And several chapters after that one, in which Jaime mentioned the night of Dany's conception, when Aerys was intoxicated on basilisk's blood, there was this chapter:

Quote

AFFC, Cat of the Canals

"This paste is spiced with basilisk blood. It will give cooked flesh a savory smell, but if eaten it produces violent madness, in beasts as well as men. A mouse will attack a lion after a taste of basilisk blood."

Arya chewed her lip. "Would it work on dogs?"

"On any animal with warm blood."

So there was a buildup, though the readers are unaware of it. Some readers did figured out that Jaqen used basilisk blood to kill Weese. Though they didn't realised that the Faceless Men were regularly using this and other substances on numerous Targaryens.

And I'm unable to discuss these topics with the other readers, because they don't see in the books what I see. Thus far my attempts to make other people on this forum to see all those hidden plotlines, all have failed, and my explanations are perceived by them as fanfiction and tinfoil So I'll have to wait until GRRM will explain all of it in plain text, for the other readers to see what has been going on.

4 hours ago, BlackLightning said:

The tigers?

As in the Volantene warhawks? Do tell.

No, not Volantene. Azor Ahai's descendants born by (maybe) his fifth wife. <- this one is my theory, not a concrete fact like "there were numerous Faceless Men amongst the Kingsguards, and in the past 300 years, by using their proximity to the royal family, they have killed 100+ dragonseeds - Targaryens, Baratheons, Velaryons, and their relatives who were carriers of Valyrian blood, but didn't had Valyrian surnames".

In my opinion, the widow of the Bloodstone Emperor (the guy who supposedly caused the First Long Night) - the Tiger-woman, became Azor Ahai's fifth wife, and her descendants are members of House Swann. Johanna Swann - the Black Swan of Lys, in my opinion, was a cat-skinchanger, also she was Larra Rogare's mother, and the current generation of the Starks are skinchangers because they are Johanna Swann's descendants thru two lines.

Both Ned and Cat are descendants of Johanna Swann:

Ned's great-grandmother -  Melantha Blackwood, in my opinion, was a granddaughter of Aegon IV Targaryen, thru one of Aegon's bastard-daughters - Mya Rivers (Bloodraven's sister);

and Cat's great-grandfather (the founder of House Whent and Shella Whent's grandfather) was a grandson and at the same time a son of Aegon IV. The Bastard of Harrenhal was a son of Aegon and Aegon's own daughter - Jeyne Lothston, so this guy was both - King Aegon's son and grandson. And he was a grandfather of Shella, Walter, Oswell, and also Minisa Whent - Catelyn Tully's mother.

So Mya Rivers (Ned's ancestor) and the Bastard of Harrenhal (Cat's ancestor) were half-siblings and Aegon IV's bastards. So because both Ned and Cat were carriers of skinchanging genes, all of their children were born with skinchanging abilities.

And whenever two of Johanna Swann's/Larra Rogare's/Aegon the Unworthy's descendants intermarried and had children, those children were born skinchangers.

Examples: Elia Martell was a descendant of Aegon IV's daughter - Princess Daenerys, and Elia's husband (Rhaegar) was a descendant of Mya River's daughter - Betha Blackwood (Mya married with a member of House Blackwood, and had at least two daughters. One of them - Melantha, married with a Stark, and the other one - Betha Blackwood, married with Aegon V Targaryen).

So Elia's genes + Rhaegar's genes = their daughter - princess Rhaenys, was a cat-skinchanger. And Balerion the Cat was her first and only vessel, into which she skinchanged in the moment of her death.

Same thing with Cat + Ned, Rhaegar + Lyanna, Lysa + Petyr Baelish

(his great-grandfather - the sellsword from Braavos, was a son of the Bastard of Harrenhal (Catelyn Tully's great-grandfather) and an Otherys-girl (one of Aegon IV granddaughters, probably Balerion Otherys' daughter)

-> all their children inherited two strains of skinchanging-DNA from their ancient ancestor - the Tiger-woman, and thus they all are skinchangers.

And Arya is a cat-skinchanger, same as was the Tiger-woman (widow of the Bloodstone Emperor), Johanna Swann, Larra Rogare (who is also Serenei of Lys, because I said so), and Shiera Seastar. And the current Sealord of Braavos is also a descendant of Aegon IV, same as Arya, and he is also a cat-skinchanger. That's why he is using Cat-Network at Braavos and the Red Keep (including Balerion the Cat - princess Rhaenys' vessel) to spy after various people.

So the Starks, Targaryens, Baratheons, Blackfyres, and Varys, Melisandre, Petyr Baelish, Brienne, the Hound, the Mountain, the current Sealord of Braavos, Brown Ben Plumm, Khal Drogo, Rhaego - they are all descendants of the Tiger-woman and Azor Ahai.

And it seems that Johanna Swann was born in 90-91 AC (their 90 AC is our 1890; though our 1983 is their 283 not 183 AC). From January 1890 to February 1891 it was the Year of the White Metal Tiger. While from February 2022 to January 2023 it will be the year of the Black Water Tiger.

Shiera Seastar is a daughter of Larra Rogare/Serenei of Lys, and a granddaughter of Johanna Swann, and a descendant of the Tiger-woman. Also Shiera is a cat-skinchanger (same as was her mother and grandmother), and she is the Three-Eyed Crow. And in the next book GRRM will reveal to the readers that the 3EC is not Bloodraven, that it's Shiera, and that the shadowbinder Quaithe is also Shiera, and that Shiera was Mance Rayder's wildling healer, and that she skinchanged into that shadow-cat that attacked Mance, which later caused Mance to leave Night's Watch.

Shiera was born with a cat-skinchanging abilitites, the name given to her means - Star of the Sea (that's what GRRM said), she became a shadowbinder and the 3EC. So - cat + water + black -> Black Water Tiger.

Don't you agree that that sort of revelations will be the most suitable to be done in the Year of the Tiger? Because the "tigers" - GRRM's cat-women are a very important (but thus far didn't noticed by the readers) part of ASOIAF's plot. Though, you won't understand what my "ramblings" are about. So let's return to this topic after all that will be revealed in TWOW.

[LynnS]

wrong thread - sorry

[Raven Princling]

 Daenerys and Jon romance. It felt like a complete fanfiction to me in the show (and fanservice since I remember so many shipping Dany and Jon in the early days of the show). 

[James West]

1. Arya gets her sanity back and receives redemption.  Arya has become somewhat interesting after she lost her mind.  A logical conclusion to the Arya character is to die at The Twins after assassinating old Walder Frey. A vicious assassin dies at the end with her last mark. 
2. Dany doesn't win the iron throne.  The entirety of her story is preparing for rule.  She is learning fast and will become the ruler needed in Westeros. 
3. Tyrion fails to develop as a character and remains an acerbic little dude.  Tyrion's act starts to wear out after a while. 

[The Bard of Banefort]

On 12/19/2021 at 8:54 PM, Apoplexy said:

If Cersei's stuff about dying with Jaime turns out to be true. Maybe i'm thinking about how it played out in the show, but it just makes all the development that has happened in Jaime's character pointless.

I agree. Their whole relationship was built on lies, that should be a lie too. Plus you have to wonder why Cersei is on Arya’s kill list but Jaime isn’t if he wasn’t going to outlive her.

[Groo]

On 12/20/2021 at 1:09 PM, BlackLightning said:

• Not getting a full understanding of why the seasons are so messed up and why the Others are othering.
• Not getting a full understanding of all of the different magic systems

I completely agree. Most of the story so far has been the game of thrones but the big shadow hanging over everything is the return of magic, including the Others and dragons. If this isn't developed with some kind of significant payoff, I'll be very disappointed. As immensely enjoyable as the game of thrones has been, you can't isolate it from the magical fantasy elements. Without dragons, Daenerys's storyline ends in the Red Wastes. Without Melisandre's magic, Stannis's storyline ends quickly when Renly crushes him beneath the walls of Storm's End. Resolving who "wins" the game of thrones won't be enough of an ending if the magical elements aren't thoroughly written, explored, and resolved as well.

[Apoplexy]

7 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

I agree. Their whole relationship was built on lies, that should be a lie too. Plus you have to wonder why Cersei is on Arya’s kill list but Jaime isn’t if he wasn’t going to outlive her.

As much as I hope Jaime doesnt die, if he does, it probably will have something to do with his dream about fighting alongside Brienne. And cersie will die with the valonqar prophesy being fulfilled. 

Another thing that would not necessarily ruin the story for me, but irk me a lot, would be if Arya and Cersei don't meet again. It would feel like her list was incomplete somehow. Same if Brienne does not meet Stannis. It would feel like unfinished business.

[Jaenara Belarys]

On 12/21/2021 at 11:01 AM, Moiraine Sedai said:

That was a let-down. It turned me off so that I may not watch the coming shows. I know, different producers, can mean a better story.

Indeed. Sheer dogshit from HBO from the ending of GoT, but now we have to accept another potential load of dogshit/fanservice/woke service/other forms of services that have a hit or miss of corrupting FaB too. 

 

I think that if GRRM does do a Mad Queen arc for Dany, I'll be ticked off, majorly. He's already got one mad queen (Cersei), why the hell do you need another? Plus, he'd just send the wrong message entirely. If you make the vast majority of female characters in power die or go nuts and be put down by their men, it says "Hey, children! Women in power go batshit!" 

[Kinola]

• Child characters such as Shireen, Sweetrobin, and Rickon dying. Myrcella and Tommen may be inevitable (through no fault of Cersei's, I'll reckon), but I'm hoping at least one of them has a chance to fly under the prophecy radar.
• Euron's plans and motives. He seems like a crazy but pointless antagonist to me. No idea what he's really got going on, but I don't like it one bit.
• Arianne's future story. Is she going to meet with Aegon/Young Griff? Is she going to believe him to be the real deal, or will she entertain the idea of checking out Dany?
• Davos' journey to Skagos will be overlooked or won't get far. Really want to see Skagos in the books, and to know what its people are like, and to also see whether Rickon's doing OK.
• Theon dying. Seems too predictable. Having him live will keep things interesting, and maybe Melisandre might take an interest in him?
• Not enough female characters. 
• Maybe develop some other noble houses more? 
• Not going back to see how certain characters like Edmure & Roslin are doing, since they're captives and also expecting a baby together.
• The Ironborn seem like tired-out stereotypes of typical Vikings. Not fun to read about after a while.
• Feels like there isn't enough info about Essos and its cities. It feels like they're all the same.