What compromise will be found between the Stark children ?

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight9]

Once the Boltons are eradicated for good and that Winterfell has been retaken by Stannis or one of Ned's kids, and that the other Stark children come back to the North and Winterfell with each of them having different men and characters backing them up such as Jon being supported by the free folks, Sansa by the lords and knights of the Vale, Bran and/or Rickon by Wyman Manderly, Robett Glover and at least a good portion of the northern lords, as well as Maege Mormont and  Galbart Glover returning with Robb's will there is surely going to be a big dilemna to see which child of Ned Stark shall become the head of house Stark and the North and what will be the inheritance order and positions of the other Stark kids. 

Littlefinger who was pleased to have Sansa as his ticket to gain control of the North and the Riverlands will certainely be very displeased and inconvenienced with the reveal of her not being the only Stark children alive and of Bran and/or Rickon having a better claim to Winterfell and Jon having been seemingly legitimised and appointed as Robb's heir by his late brother. The northern lords will also surely be torn between having Bran or Rickon as their new lord of Winterfell and them having to take in account Robb's will even if it was made under the belief that Bran and Rickon were dead, there might be a division between those supporting Jon based on this will and Jon being a capable adult while Bran and Rickon are still kids and not fit to rule yet, and Bran being crippled and/or Rickon being still pretty wild and those supporting Bran or Rickon based on the classic inheritance law of the trueborn son passing before the bastard son, even legitimized. And there is, if he's still alive by that point, Stannis to take in account. 

And that's not counting the political agendas and ambitions of several northern houses, especially the Manderlys with Wyman having likely hoped to become a regent to Rickon until he comes of age. Even learning that Bran could be alive should contrariate his and others' plans, even more Robb's will and Sansa's presence.

A compromise between the Stark kids, as I don't believe that there will be any civil war between them given the love they have for each other and the fact that the North can't afford to have another conflict after all the losses and sufferings it has already endured and while the Others' mortal threat is coming very soon, thus will have to be found to ensure that the North has one or several leaders without a civil war to prepare the region and its people to the inevitable war for the Dawn and other challenges south of the Neck with the return of the Targaryens in particular. 

But what will this compromise be, and how long it might take before it happens ? What role and position will each of the Stark kids have in the restoration of house Stark, new northern regime and preparation for the Long Night ? 

[chrisdaw]

Not much of an issue, Sansa isn't ever going north and the rest (besides Jon) will be thought lost or dead and won't be back around until Jon has become widely accepted as the leader the north needs. If there's any mind paid to it, it'll be determined they should wait until the current emergency is dealt with (as in Jon deals with it) and sorted out afterwards.

[Lord Lannister]

The only point of actual strife between the Stark children will be because of their respective handlers. The Manderlys in Rickon's case, the Vale in Sansa's and so on. Jon is basically a free agent and won't be the cause of any sibling rivalry, and Bran and Arya quite literally have their own agendas outside of the North.

[Nevets]

Bran and Arya will likely break from their current handlers and be free agents.  Sansa will probably break with Littlefinger, most likely over the North, either his past actions or future plans, so he won't be a likely factor.  I have doubts that Davos is going to bring Rickon south anytime soon (I think they are stuck in the far north for awhile).  And even though Jon is the LC of the Nights Watch, that doesn't prevent him from exerting outsize influence in the North.  Stannis is the only real wild card at this point.  Most likely, Jon will take charge, as he is the only real adult of the bunch, but the others will all have their own skills and knowledge to bring to the table.  There may be some squabbles and disagreements, but I expect it will work out, more or less, by the end.

[BlackLightning]

I think the bigger problem will be between Stannis and the Starks, particularly Sansa. A lot of people forget this but Stannis is not a friend of the Stark family nor does he care to be. If his negative feelings towards Robb and Ned and the actions (or lack thereof) he took based on those feelings get out (I'm sure that they will), then the northmen are going to reject him. And Sansa will probably be right there politicking and turning them against Stannis and in the favor of her family.

I do think that there will be some bad blood between Sansa and Arya. I don't think it'll have anything to do with the old stuff...I think something new will come up that will cause the sisters to fight or at least disagree.

Also, part of GRRM's original plan was for Bran to hate Jon and for Bran to have a really good reason for hating Jon. Will that still happen? I'm not sure but I think it's worth mentioning.

17 hours ago, chrisdaw said:

Not much of an issue, Sansa isn't ever going north and the rest (besides Jon) will be thought lost or dead and won't be back around until Jon has become widely accepted as the leader the north needs. If there's any mind paid to it, it'll be determined they should wait until the current emergency is dealt with (as in Jon deals with it) and sorted out afterwards.

I completely disagree. I think Sansa is going north. Sansa wants to go north, Littlefinger wants her to go north, Sweetrobin wants her to get what she wants, Harry the Heir wants the prestige she can provide by going north, the lords and knights of the Vale want action.

At the moment, everything in her story is pointing northwards (and more specifically towards her family)

 

[Moiraine Sedai]

20 hours ago, Terrorthatflapsinthenight9 said:

Once the Boltons are eradicated for good and that Winterfell has been retaken by Stannis or one of Ned's kids, and that the other Stark children come back to the North and Winterfell with each of them having different men and characters backing them up such as Jon being supported by the free folks, Sansa by the lords and knights of the Vale, Bran and/or Rickon by Wyman Manderly, Robett Glover and at least a good portion of the northern lords, as well as Maege Mormont and  Galbart Glover returning with Robb's will there is surely going to be a big dilemna to see which child of Ned Stark shall become the head of house Stark and the North and what will be the inheritance order and positions of the other Stark kids. 

Littlefinger who was pleased to have Sansa as his ticket to gain control of the North and the Riverlands will certainely be very displeased and inconvenienced with the reveal of her not being the only Stark children alive and of Bran and/or Rickon having a better claim to Winterfell and Jon having been seemingly legitimised and appointed as Robb's heir by his late brother. The northern lords will also surely be torn between having Bran or Rickon as their new lord of Winterfell and them having to take in account Robb's will even if it was made under the belief that Bran and Rickon were dead, there might be a division between those supporting Jon based on this will and Jon being a capable adult while Bran and Rickon are still kids and not fit to rule yet, and Bran being crippled and/or Rickon being still pretty wild and those supporting Bran or Rickon based on the classic inheritance law of the trueborn son passing before the bastard son, even legitimized. And there is, if he's still alive by that point, Stannis to take in account. 

And that's not counting the political agendas and ambitions of several northern houses, especially the Manderlys with Wyman having likely hoped to become a regent to Rickon until he comes of age. Even learning that Bran could be alive should contrariate his and others' plans, even more Robb's will and Sansa's presence.

A compromise between the Stark kids, as I don't believe that there will be any civil war between them given the love they have for each other and the fact that the North can't afford to have another conflict after all the losses and sufferings it has already endured and while the Others' mortal threat is coming very soon, thus will have to be found to ensure that the North has one or several leaders without a civil war to prepare the region and its people to the inevitable war for the Dawn and other challenges south of the Neck with the return of the Targaryens in particular. 

But what will this compromise be, and how long it might take before it happens ? What role and position will each of the Stark kids have in the restoration of house Stark, new northern regime and preparation for the Long Night ? 

A Dance of the Direwolves will be more fun. Sansa and LF versus Arya and the Wight Wolf. Bran throws in with JonArya.  

[chrisdaw]

2 hours ago, BlackLightning said:

I completely disagree. I think Sansa is going north. Sansa wants to go north, Littlefinger wants her to go north, Sweetrobin wants her to get what she wants, Harry the Heir wants the prestige she can provide by going north, the lords and knights of the Vale want action.

At the moment, everything in her story is pointing northwards (and more specifically towards her family)

I could go on forever but it's really simple, she's pawn to player and there's no game of thrones in the north. Nothing is pointing her towards a future with her family, where it has concerned her family her arc has been about accepting loss and moving forward.

[Northern Sword]

27 minutes ago, chrisdaw said:

I could go on forever but it's really simple, she's pawn to player and there's no game of thrones in the north. Nothing is pointing her towards a future with her family, where it has concerned her family her arc has been about accepting loss and moving forward.

I agree. She will stay in the south. Her developing skill set will do more for her in the Vale and Riverlands.

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight9]

37 minutes ago, chrisdaw said:

I could go on forever but it's really simple, she's pawn to player and there's no game of thrones in the north. Nothing is pointing her towards a future with her family, where it has concerned her family her arc has been about accepting loss and moving forward.

Of course there is a game of thrones in the North, the rules and players are just different than in the south but not so different, it was confirmed during ACOK with the Hornwood matter and the treason of house Bolton. 

ADWD expanded greatly on this with the northern conspiracy with Wyman Manderly and other northern lords, Stannis getting the support of several houses and of the Mountain clans, and everything with house Karstark in this book.

And since Sansa's arc is about learning the game and Littlefinger's tactics, as well as the many reminders of her ties with her family and home as @BlackLightning brought up, I am absolutely certain that she'll return north and will become a player of the game herself.

[chrisdaw]

42 minutes ago, Terrorthatflapsinthenight9 said:

Of course there is a game of thrones in the North, the rules and players are just different than in the south but not so different, it was confirmed during ACOK with the Hornwood matter and the treason of house Bolton. 

ADWD expanded greatly on this with the northern conspiracy with Wyman Manderly and other northern lords, Stannis getting the support of several houses and of the Mountain clans, and everything with house Karstark in this book.

And since Sansa's arc is about learning the game and Littlefinger's tactics, as well as the many reminders of her ties with her family and home as @BlackLightning brought up, I am absolutely certain that she'll return north and will become a player of the game herself.

No the game in the north is nothing like the game in the south. The north south divide is made plain from the outset of the series and it's not something I care to waste time arguing because it's just there in big bold writing. Ned goes south, it's not like the north, refuses their ways and gets dead. The north does not play like the south and the southern game is what Sansa is groomed for.

Brienne spent whole books searching for Sansa. She is Jaime's last chance of honour. Cersei tormented and moulded her. She makes up kisses from Sandor. She had Lancel positively beaming with her sincere well wishing. Tyrion wants nothing more than the love and affection of a young beautiful woman, Sansa is a young beautiful woman learning to manipulate men, GRRM locked them together by marriage. Southern characters, central to the series in or soon to be in the south and chained to her arc. Pawns, love interests and enemies for our developing player.

What have you got in the north? Jon for whom she spares about 2 whole lines on in her whole POV. Jeyne Pool . . .

Much groundwork has been laid for Sansa's arc, it is all in the south and there's nothing in the north.

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight9]

8 minutes ago, chrisdaw said:

No the game in the north is nothing like the game in the south. The north south divide is made plain from the outset of the series and it's not something I care to waste time arguing because it's just there in big bold writing. Ned goes south, it's not like the north, refuses their ways and gets dead. The north does not play like the south and the southern game is what Sansa is groomed for.

Brienne spent whole books searching for Sansa. She is Jaime's last chance of honour. Cersei tormented and moulded her. She makes up kisses from Sandor. She had Lancel positively beaming with her sincere well wishing. Tyrion wants nothing more than the love and affection of a young beautiful woman, Sansa is a young beautiful woman learning to manipulate men, GRRM locked them together by marriage. Southern characters, central to the series in or soon to be in the south and chained to her arc. Pawns, love interests and enemies for our developing player.

What have you got in the north? Jon for whom she spares about 2 whole lines on in her whole POV. Jeyne Pool . . .

Much groundwork has been laid for Sansa's arc, it is all in the south and there's nothing in the north.

The game is present in all of the regions of Westeros, and each region has its own version and vision of it with core characteristics that are present everywhere. In the North houses are still trying to get more lands and power or favors from the Starks as seen perfectly during the feast at Winterfell during ACOK and the conflict over the Hornwood lands between the Boltons and Manderlys as well as house Bolton's plots and betrayal and the efforts of house Stark to contain the Boltons' power and influence as perfectly explained in Tower of the Hand's article about the North politics.  Ned wasn't ready for King's Landing game but that doesn't mean he didn't have to play the northern version of the game.

And Sansa is also Littlefinger's hope to get the North under his control, which means that he'll try to put her in power here soon after marrying her to Harold Hardyng, it was made it clear many times than Winterfell is still her home and that she's going to reaffirm her identity one day. Also her story with her sister isn't over yet and while she doesn't know it yet there will be more than Jon for her in the North.

And her marriage with Tyrion didn't and was never going to work, Sansa might have some fondness and gratitude for Tyrion but she also couldn't dissociate him from the rest of his family during their married time, and even if she eventually does it's obvious that she'll never have romantic feelings for him.

[chrisdaw]

3 minutes ago, Terrorthatflapsinthenight9 said:

And Sansa is also Littlefinger's hope to get the North under his control, which means that he'll try to put her in power here soon after marrying her to Harold Hardyng, it was made it clear many times than Winterfell is still her home and that she's going to reaffirm her identity one day. Also her story with her sister isn't over yet and while she doesn't know it yet there will be more than Jon for her in the North.

And her marriage with Tyrion didn't and was never going to work, Sansa might have some fondness and gratitude for Tyrion but she also couldn't dissociate him from the rest of his family during their married time, and even if she eventually does it's obvious that she'll never have romantic feelings for him.

As I said, north and south divide is blatant and I'm not wasting time on it.

Littlefinger is her trainer and is nearing the end of his usefulness to her arc. He will be gone and she will be playing for herself. He is to Sansa's arc as the FM are to Arya's and Bloodraven is to Bran's. It was made clear Winterfell was her home, and that she doesn't have a home now except that which she makes. Arya will also be in the south long before she goes north.

Sansa is not primarily a love story and it certainly doesn't follow in ASOIAF that love and marriage go together like a horse and carriage. That Sansa will not love Tyrion is no argument for the two not relating heavily to each other going forward, on the contrary it is part of the point. A great deal of page in ASOIAF has been dedicated to explaining that Tyrion has an acute need to be loved and searches for it in young beautiful women, and that he is by this weakness able to be manipulated into doing their will and refuses to accept the hard truth that they're using him for material gain. Sansa is a young beautiful woman learning by her charms to to manipulate the behaviour of men according to her own wishes. Their arcs are ying and yang, tied together, married even.

[BlackLightning]

3 hours ago, chrisdaw said:

I could go on forever but it's really simple, she's pawn to player and there's no game of thrones in the north. Nothing is pointing her towards a future with her family, where it has concerned her family her arc has been about accepting loss and moving forward.

There is definitely a game of thrones in the North.

Barbrey Dustin, Wyman Manderly, Stannis Baratheon, Roose Bolton, Arnoff Karstark, Jon Snow, Melisandre, Mance Rayder, etc. are all involved in the game of thrones in the North.

Granted, the prize is Winterfell. But the game is still being played.

I don't see how Sansa is more suited to play the game in King's Landing than in Winterfell, which is both her home and the base of her power.

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight9]

21 minutes ago, chrisdaw said:

As I said, north and south divide is blatant and I'm not wasting time on it.

Littlefinger is her trainer and is nearing the end of his usefulness to her arc. He will be gone and she will be playing for herself. He is to Sansa's arc as the FM are to Arya's and Bloodraven is to Bran's. It was made clear Winterfell was her home, and that she doesn't have a home now except that which she makes. Arya will also be in the south long before she goes north.

Sansa is not primarily a love story and it certainly doesn't follow in ASOIAF that love and marriage go together like a horse and carriage. That Sansa will not love Tyrion is no argument for the two not relating heavily to each other going forward, on the contrary it is part of the point. A great deal of page in ASOIAF has been dedicated to explaining that Tyrion has an acute need to be loved and searches for it in young beautiful women, and that he is by this weakness able to be manipulated into doing their will and refuses to accept the hard truth that they're using him for material gain. Sansa is a young beautiful woman learning by her charms to to manipulate the behaviour of men according to her own wishes. Their arcs are ying and yang, tied together, married even.

And as I've said there aren't so much different from each other despite what northmen and people south of the Neck themselves are claiming, and that difference is even more superfluous given that each kingdom has its own politics and version of the game with the North being closer to most kingdoms than the Iron Islands are in many aspects of the game in several aspects for example. 

And she certainely won't stay south together for reasons already brought up by @BlackLightningand I, and LF will certainely have his plans move north along with her in order to get control of Winterfell and the region. This cannot happen with her staying in the Vale. 

I have always believed that Sansa's arc was to learn the game and to become a player of it, but not for herself alone, also for her family, and to find her way back north and home. 

And Tyrion's arc and need to be loved will come back, but it's not Sansa alone who will fill that need and affection void in him. She may get some platonic appreciation for him, but given the forced circumstances of this marriage and her inevitable ressentment and defiance toward him with how his family butchered her mother and brother it was never going to work. And Tyrion wasn't and isn't completely selfless toward her, and the more negative traits that he has gotten or grown since his trial and killing of his father may repulse Sansa further.

 

[chrisdaw]

13 minutes ago, Terrorthatflapsinthenight9 said:

I have always believed that Sansa's arc was to learn the game and to become a player of it, but not for herself alone, also for her family, and to find her way back north and home.

And that's the biggest misreading, as you can't play the game of thrones and remain a Stark. The game of thrones is inherently dishonourable.

[chrisdaw]

25 minutes ago, BlackLightning said:

There is definitely a game of thrones in the North.

Barbrey Dustin, Wyman Manderly, Stannis Baratheon, Roose Bolton, Arnoff Karstark, Jon Snow, Melisandre, Mance Rayder, etc. are all involved in the game of thrones in the North.

Granted, the prize is Winterfell. But the game is still being played.

I don't see how Sansa is more suited to play the game in King's Landing than in Winterfell, which is both her home and the base of her power.

I am curious what people such as yourself think when they read passages such as the below. So you don't think the below is the author explaining there's a definitive difference in political methods between the north and south, ok, but what do you think the author is doing here? What is he doing including this?

Quote

 

The Blackfish looked at him shrewdly. "You know that for a certainty? That this will make young Karstark your enemy?"

"What else would he be? I am about to kill his father, he's not like to thank me."

"He might. There are sons who hate their fathers, and in a stroke you will make him Lord of Karhold."

Robb shook his head. "Even if Harrion were that sort, he could never openly forgive his father's killer. His own men would turn on him. These are northmen, Uncle. The north remembers."

"Pardon him, then," urged Edmure Tully.

Robb stared at him in frank disbelief.

 

[Nevets]

The Game of Thrones is essentially a rougher, sharper elbowed version of what we would call politics.  While there are likely regional variations, the general principles are likely the same everywhere.  Ned could play the game; he was simply unprepared for the level of venality and dishonesty he found in Kings Landing.  Which suggests the Northern version may be better suited for Sansa. 

In any event, she will go where her interests lie.  And that's not the South.  Kings Landing holds nothing for her except enemies and bad memories.  She's not going there.  As for the Riverlands she's spent little time there and has shown no interest. 

The North is where she is from.  It's her home.  Her story is full of Northern and Stark imagery, and she frequently thinks about it and her life there.  

The Vale will be her training ground, but once she has learned the ropes, she will turn her eyes North.  It's her home and what she cares about. 

I anticipate she will have a falling out with Littlefinger and leave him in the rear-view.  I also think Harry the Heir is, like Aegon, a red herring.  I do not believe they will marry.  She will be doing things on her own initiative and for her own reasons. 

 

 

[frenin]

There will be no compromise, they will all bow to Rickon or they will lose their Stark heads.

[dsjj251]

9 hours ago, chrisdaw said:

As I said, north and south divide is blatant and I'm not wasting time on it.

 

The show exists and so do TWOW chapters. Its pretty much a given that Sansa reveals herself as a Stark and goes North to claim winterfell.

 

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight9]

9 hours ago, chrisdaw said:

And that's the biggest misreading, as you can't play the game of thrones and remain a Stark. The game of thrones is inherently dishonourable.

Her acting becoming a player doesn't make her less of a Stark, and her becoming far more cynical and sly doesn't mean that she'll lose all of her moral compass. And Starks don't have to be as honorable as Ned, which comes in large part from his raising in the Vale by Jon Arryn, to be true Starks lol. Many Stark kings and lords certainely weren't.

Unless you're also saying that Lannisters without ambition or arrogance can't be Lannisters, or that Targaryens without a fiery temper or blond/silver hair can't be Targaryens or Greyjoys without narrow-mindness and a blind belief in the Old Way can't be Greyjoys.