The Bard of Banefort Posted January 29, 2022 Share Posted January 29, 2022 Long live Sansabane! Huzzah! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvo the Crow Posted January 29, 2022 Share Posted January 29, 2022 13 hours ago, EggBlue said: the more story evolves , the more I think LF never had or will have a major plan and that he's a simply an opportunist who takes advantage of every situation and from time to time stirs up enmity between others to lift himself up in the process ... his motivation for Jon Arryn's murder is truly suspicious but it might well turn out that JA was figuring out about LF's embezzlement or something.. This. He says it himself that he THRIVES in chaos. He’s no mastermind planner, he’s simply an oppurtunist that is able to fly under the radar because he’s lowest of the low among the nobility, descendant of a landed knight with just a single village that isn’t even in a fertile place. Was it him who got lorded as the Master of Coin or his father due to his feats at stepstones? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrorthatflapsinthenight9 Posted January 29, 2022 Author Share Posted January 29, 2022 1 minute ago, Corvo the Crow said: This. He says it himself that he THRIVES in chaos. He’s no mastermind planner, he’s simply an oppurtunist that is able to fly under the radar because he’s lowest of the low among the nobility, descendant of a landed knight with just a single village that isn’t even in a fertile place. Was it him who got lorded as the Master of Coin or his father due to his feats at stepstones? Petyr's father never had a position in King's Landing, it was Petyr who became master of coins thanks to Lysa Arryn's influence on her husband. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvo the Crow Posted January 29, 2022 Share Posted January 29, 2022 21 minutes ago, Terrorthatflapsinthenight9 said: Petyr's father never had a position in King's Landing, it was Petyr who became master of coins thanks to Lysa Arryn's influence on her husband. His father fought in the Stepstones during 9pK wars, where he befriended Hoster Tully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrorthatflapsinthenight9 Posted January 29, 2022 Author Share Posted January 29, 2022 5 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said: His father fought in the Stepstones during 9pK wars, where he befriended Hoster Tully. He did but he never had any position in King's Landing, it was Petyr who went there and rose thanks to Lysa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvo the Crow Posted January 29, 2022 Share Posted January 29, 2022 1 minute ago, Terrorthatflapsinthenight9 said: He did but he never had any position in King's Landing, it was Petyr who went there and rose thanks to Lysa. I never suggested that he did hold a position in KL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvo the Crow Posted January 29, 2022 Share Posted January 29, 2022 On 1/28/2022 at 4:22 AM, The Bard of Banefort said: What should SansaxWhoresbane’s ship name be? OMG OMG OMG! Thx to you, I just noticed that how awfully similar Hother is to Hodor. A simple minded and traumatized child can easilly pronounce Hother as Hodor. Poor, poor Walder No wonder Hother is given command of old men while Mors leads the boys. Hother you dirty bastard! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Targaryen Restoration Posted January 29, 2022 Share Posted January 29, 2022 On 12/20/2021 at 6:11 PM, Terrorthatflapsinthenight9 said: Once the Boltons are eradicated for good and that Winterfell has been retaken by Stannis or one of Ned's kids, and that the other Stark children come back to the North and Winterfell with each of them having different men and characters backing them up such as Jon being supported by the free folks, Sansa by the lords and knights of the Vale, Bran and/or Rickon by Wyman Manderly, Robett Glover and at least a good portion of the northern lords, as well as Maege Mormont and Galbart Glover returning with Robb's will there is surely going to be a big dilemna to see which child of Ned Stark shall become the head of house Stark and the North and what will be the inheritance order and positions of the other Stark kids. Littlefinger who was pleased to have Sansa as his ticket to gain control of the North and the Riverlands will certainely be very displeased and inconvenienced with the reveal of her not being the only Stark children alive and of Bran and/or Rickon having a better claim to Winterfell and Jon having been seemingly legitimised and appointed as Robb's heir by his late brother. The northern lords will also surely be torn between having Bran or Rickon as their new lord of Winterfell and them having to take in account Robb's will even if it was made under the belief that Bran and Rickon were dead, there might be a division between those supporting Jon based on this will and Jon being a capable adult while Bran and Rickon are still kids and not fit to rule yet, and Bran being crippled and/or Rickon being still pretty wild and those supporting Bran or Rickon based on the classic inheritance law of the trueborn son passing before the bastard son, even legitimized. And there is, if he's still alive by that point, Stannis to take in account. And that's not counting the political agendas and ambitions of several northern houses, especially the Manderlys with Wyman having likely hoped to become a regent to Rickon until he comes of age. Even learning that Bran could be alive should contrariate his and others' plans, even more Robb's will and Sansa's presence. A compromise between the Stark kids, as I don't believe that there will be any civil war between them given the love they have for each other and the fact that the North can't afford to have another conflict after all the losses and sufferings it has already endured and while the Others' mortal threat is coming very soon, thus will have to be found to ensure that the North has one or several leaders without a civil war to prepare the region and its people to the inevitable war for the Dawn and other challenges south of the Neck with the return of the Targaryens in particular. But what will this compromise be, and how long it might take before it happens ? What role and position will each of the Stark kids have in the restoration of house Stark, new northern regime and preparation for the Long Night ? The Starks need to have their own Dance. They can fight for who gets to inherit the family's castle fort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EggBlue Posted January 29, 2022 Share Posted January 29, 2022 1 minute ago, Targaryen Restoration said: The Starks need to have their own Dance. They can fight for who gets to inherit the family's castle fort. wolves don't dance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bard of Banefort Posted January 29, 2022 Share Posted January 29, 2022 8 hours ago, Corvo the Crow said: OMG OMG OMG! Thx to you, I just noticed that how awfully similar Hother is to Hodor. A simple minded and traumatized child can easilly pronounce Hother as Hodor. Poor, poor Walder No wonder Hother is given command of old men while Mors leads the boys. Hother you dirty bastard! Why did they take down our thread about LorWhor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvo the Crow Posted January 29, 2022 Share Posted January 29, 2022 27 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said: Why did they take down our thread about LorWhor? What? Why I bet it’s Sansa who wants Whoresbane all for herself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EggBlue Posted January 29, 2022 Share Posted January 29, 2022 1 hour ago, The Bard of Banefort said: Why did they take down our thread about LorWhor? why?! it's not like it was full of dick jokes like some threads I could name.. seriously though, why? did any of us say something inappropriate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisdaw Posted January 29, 2022 Share Posted January 29, 2022 On 1/29/2022 at 1:34 AM, Northern Sword said: I wasn't thinking along the lines of her ruling as Queen, as the only path to power. A power base that puts her in control of one of the Vale or Riverlands or both is enough to make her a powerful player(especially if an army comes with it). I see the set up for her as queen, but have difficulty seeing it actually happen if Dany is around. Doesn't mean she wouldn't have influence. I like the idea of the symmetry between Sansa and Arya's skill set. Makes sense, but maybe a little to neat and tidy. It is possible for them to work towards a similar goal without working together. i.e. Sansa on the political side, and Arya just seeking vengeance independently for the Starks(Frey pies) You should be thinking of her as either queen or as having majority influence over a ruling king/queen. That's the logical place to take a pawn to player arc and everything points there. That's where this train ends. Dany is there for Sansa to eliminate, to bring to fruition all the reasons Westeros has to hate the Mad King's daughter and nurse her to the same fate as the last and only other dragon queen, removed by popular revolt. Arya will fall in with Sansa in KL as her catspaw, though Arya will probably not reveal herself to Sansa. Arya will take faces and infiltrate the small council's of Aegon and Dany, intercept and read secret letters, be eyes and ears in the walls of the red keep. She will frequent the brothels, ale houses and pot shops of KL and learn the lay of the smallfolk. She will create her own network and have her own eyes on every gate, no-one will leave or enter KL without Arya knowing. And all this information she will provide to Sansa. It will be the realisation of information being the most lucrative currency, as the text has argued for in a few places. At Sansa's behest Arya will put ideas in people's heads, make up communications not theirs, such as orders, and on occasion assassinate someone and make the culprit appear someone else. Through the singers, mummers, whores and preachers Arya will have the smallfolk thinking, believing and talking about whatever Sansa needs the news of the day to be. Sansa is going to make sure the dance happens, pull in factions who might have stayed neutral and make it massive, the more chaos the more opportunity, turn allied parties to enemies and in the end remove every likely monarch until they're scrounging around for anyone who seems half keen and half competent. In the background the character arcs are this. What is Sansa all about now? A question Arya will need to ask herself. Is Sansa for Stark revenge? Is she for the realm? Or is she just the new Cersei and all about herself and her own power? The speeches Ned has given Arya are to persuade Arya to give Sansa a lot of rope, but in the end it will be for Arya to realise Sansa's actions are not in the best interest of anyone, they're not about righting the wrongs of Cersei or the Baratheon/Lannister rule as Arya will have thought and hoped they were doing, and Arya will move on to find the next Stark to try and fill the void. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bard of Banefort Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 1 hour ago, EggBlue said: why?! it's not like it was full of dick jokes like some threads I could name.. seriously though, why? did any of us say something inappropriate? Nope, it was extremely tame. We were just having fun Plus let’s be real, it technically isn’t impossible. . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bard of Banefort Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 5 hours ago, chrisdaw said: You should be thinking of her as either queen or as having majority influence over a ruling king/queen. That's the logical place to take a pawn to player arc and everything points there. That's where this train ends. Dany is there for Sansa to eliminate, to bring to fruition all the reasons Westeros has to hate the Mad King's daughter and nurse her to the same fate as the last and only other dragon queen, removed by popular revolt. Arya will fall in with Sansa in KL as her catspaw, though Arya will probably not reveal herself to Sansa. Arya will take faces and infiltrate the small council's of Aegon and Dany, intercept and read secret letters, be eyes and ears in the walls of the red keep. She will frequent the brothels, ale houses and pot shops of KL and learn the lay of the smallfolk. She will create her own network and have her own eyes on every gate, no-one will leave or enter KL without Arya knowing. And all this information she will provide to Sansa. It will be the realisation of information being the most lucrative currency, as the text has argued for in a few places. At Sansa's behest Arya will put ideas in people's heads, make up communications not theirs, such as orders, and on occasion assassinate someone and make the culprit appear someone else. Through the singers, mummers, whores and preachers Arya will have the smallfolk thinking, believing and talking about whatever Sansa needs the news of the day to be. Sansa is going to make sure the dance happens, pull in factions who might have stayed neutral and make it massive, the more chaos the more opportunity, turn allied parties to enemies and in the end remove every likely monarch until they're scrounging around for anyone who seems half keen and half competent. In the background the character arcs are this. What is Sansa all about now? A question Arya will need to ask herself. Is Sansa for Stark revenge? Is she for the realm? Or is she just the new Cersei and all about herself and her own power? The speeches Ned has given Arya are to persuade Arya to give Sansa a lot of rope, but in the end it will be for Arya to realise Sansa's actions are not in the best interest of anyone, they're not about righting the wrongs of Cersei or the Baratheon/Lannister rule as Arya will have thought and hoped they were doing, and Arya will move on to find the next Stark to try and fill the void. Queen of the North or queen of Westeros? How do you think she’ll become queen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvo the Crow Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 Umber 4 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said: Queen of the North or queen of Westeros? How do you think she’ll become queen? Quote Amongst the houses reduced from royals to vassals we can count the Flints of Breakstone Hill, the Slates of Blackpool, the Umbers of Last Hearth, the Lockes of Oldcastle, the Glovers of Deepwood Motte, the Fishers of the Stony Shore, the Ryders of the Rills...and mayhaps even the Blackwoods of Raventree, whose own family traditions insist they once ruled most of the wolfswood before being driven from their lands by the Kings of Winter (certain runic records support this claim, if Maester Barneby's translations can be trusted). It’s all in the text! Seriously though, can’t recall if Robb had Sansa written off with his will but if not, with Jon being LC she already is QotN. I doubt any of the current Starks will have any southern ambitions after all that’s happened and especially Sansa since she started as the Southern enthusiast but ended up suffering the most and some of it she caused by herself, betraying family several times. Ruby Ford lead to Lady dying and telling Ned’s plans to the queen lead to Ned dying and Arya missing and eventually Robb, Bran and Rickon’s deaths. She may want vengeance but other than that she’ll be of the North. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMantis Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 1 hour ago, Corvo the Crow said: Seriously though, can’t recall if Robb had Sansa written off with his will but if not, with Jon being LC she already is QotN. I doubt any of the current Starks will have any southern ambitions after all that’s happened and especially Sansa since she started as the Southern enthusiast but ended up suffering the most and some of it she caused by herself, betraying family several times. Ruby Ford lead to Lady dying and telling Ned’s plans to the queen lead to Ned dying and Arya missing and eventually Robb, Bran and Rickon’s deaths. She may want vengeance but other than that she’ll be of the North. Ned telling Cersei that he knew about the incest and relying on Littlefinger led to Ned dying. Nothing Sansa did affected his fate. As for Arya, it's possible she might have escaped, reached Winterfell, prevented the castle's capture by Theon and so prevented the Red Wedding. But it's also possible that without the attempt to seize her during her lesson with Syrio, she'd simply be captured at the Tower of the Hand, in which case she'd probably have been killed long before the end of ADWD. On 1/25/2022 at 11:10 PM, Northern Sword said: I think the north will end up in Jon's hands at the King of Winter, with Rickon being the future Lord of WF. Bran becomes the old gods and people praying to trees will be praying to him. The most fun question for me is what is the little serial killer going to do once she gets back home. NO political ambitions, but a killer on the loose will be a good read. Jon will not become king if his brother is alive - this would be completely against his character. And the King of Winter is the Lord of Winterfell, it's just that as the later is a lower rank title, it wasn't used when the Starks were kings. Bran, as has already been revealed, will be King of the Seven Kingdoms. "The little serial killer" or more accurately the deeply traumatized young girl who's been forced to kill to survive and whose list has been the anchor that allowed her to keep her identity, will probably meet up with Lady Stoneheart and forsake the path vengeance as a hollow pursuit that leads nowhere. After that Arya will reunite with her family and return home, which has always been her primary aim. On 1/27/2022 at 9:01 PM, Northern Sword said: I see it differently, Sansa's journey has not been static. What makes sense is finding the path of least resistance to power. I think that happens where she is now. Think of when Ned was going to send her back. She was trying to convince him that she should stay in the south. Her character even as far back as when she was in WF, pointed her south imo. You say that "Sansa's journey has not been static" and then you try to project this path from her outlook back at the beginning, ignoring that entire journey. Her path pointed south when she loved Joffrey, admired Cersei and thought of Winterfell as a grey prison. Very little is left of that Sansa, so why the assumption that her path is still pointing south? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvo the Crow Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 43 minutes ago, GMantis said: Nothing Sansa did affected his fate No. But you are right on Ned dying was his fault, my mistake there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMantis Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 17 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said: No. But you are right on Ned dying was his fault, my mistake there. Well, Sansa's vehement reaction to her father deciding to cancel the betrothal led Ned to realize that Joffrey was not Robert's son, so strictly speaking you're right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springwatch Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 On 12/22/2021 at 12:30 AM, chrisdaw said: I am curious what people such as yourself think when they read passages such as the below. So you don't think the below is the author explaining there's a definitive difference in political methods between the north and south, ok, but what do you think the author is doing here? What is he doing including this? Quote The Blackfish looked at him shrewdly. "You know that for a certainty? That this will make young Karstark your enemy?" "What else would he be? I am about to kill his father, he's not like to thank me." "He might. There are sons who hate their fathers, and in a stroke you will make him Lord of Karhold." Robb shook his head. "Even if Harrion were that sort, he could never openly forgive his father's killer. His own men would turn on him. These are northmen, Uncle. The north remembers." "Pardon him, then," urged Edmure Tully. Robb stared at him in frank disbelief. What do you think about the Boltons? True northmen or not? They do have ice in their eyes. Lady Dustin looks like a player too. Many of the rest might prefer (dis)honourable feuding, but here's the thing: Robb did do it the traditional northern way, swung the sword and all - and he made them all so much weaker. Even his most typically 'northern' followers might feel bad about that (it is the middle of a war after all), and Robb's catastrophic ending might put them in favour of a different kind of leader. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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