Career Chat V: the Common Ruin of the Contending Classes

[HexMachina]

Tell him you're on your period and couldn't possibly operate such a complicated machine at this time because you're all in a tizzy 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

2 hours ago, Chataya de Fleury said:

Next time, I won’t say anything at that time, or I will give him the names of our interns.

Why are internships still a thing? It’s such an immoral practice. Just start with entry level positions and pay them accordingly.

Edited June 21, 2022 by Tywin et al.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

6 hours ago, Chataya de Fleury said:

Our interns do get paid. $16/hr.

It is not an “entry level” position because these are college sophomores or juniors who are here for maybe a month or two in the summer.

We typically invite the good ones back for another summer and then extend an offer for full time employment (starting at a much better salary than $16/hr) for the top ones.

I glad to hear your firm is one of the generous ones, but I have not encountered a ton of people who've had the same experience. Most have described unpaid internships or ones that pay you so little that you're lucky to break even on gas just driving to it. The valuable experience they say you'll get as a trade off is more like what you described before, being asked to make copies or get your boss' coffee. I'm rather lucky in that every internship I've had has led to a paid position, but I've also been on the other side of that, being forced to encourage a few dozen interns to work harder for a job opportunity that probably doesn't exist. It's fair to say there are some good internship programs, but I suspect they're massively outnumbered by ones that are just looking for free labor while offering very little that's going to help an individual outside of gaining a reference and something to put on their resumes. 

[BigFatCoward]

@Chataya de Fleury I'd just leave an article on 'sexism in the workplace' on his desk, with a note saying 'I need this photocopied by 14:00'. 

[A True Kaniggit]

Bwa ha ha.

My current workplace and I have reverted back to the old status quo.

I work for 4.5 hours a day and I screw around for the remaining 3.5. 
 

This shall continue until they give me the raise I requested or they actually work up the courage to fire me.

Edited June 23, 2022 by A True Kaniggit

[BigFatCoward]

7 hours ago, A True Kaniggit said:

Bwa ha ha.

My current workplace and I have reverted back to the old status quo.

I work for 4.5 hours a day and I screw around for the remaining 3.5. 
 

This shall continue until they give me the raise I requested or they actually work up the courage to fire me.

We have a rating system at work, 1-5 for performance and development reviews. I will continue being a solid 3 until I retire in 8 years and 10 months. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

I went full Office Space a couple years ago, pushing it to make two hours worth of work look like eight and every review I've had since has said my work is excellent and I've gotten a raise each time. I strive to do less and less each day.

[Inkdaub]

On 6/20/2022 at 8:19 PM, Chataya de Fleury said:

What does one actually say to a male colleague who asks me to make him a copy of a document?

This colleague is at the same level but seems to think he is my boss.

Hopefully, he won’t ever again ask me to make copies, but if he does, I need to be prepared. 

Don't say anything at all. Just hold out your hand and when he gives you the document, before he even turns away, immediately throw it in the garbage and go back to what you were doing.

[Derfel Cadarn]

Copier … shredder … same thing!

[Zorral]

19 hours ago, A True Kaniggit said:

I work for 4.5 hours a day and I screw around for the remaining 3.5. 

What sort of job is that?  I ask because I've never worked anywhere in which there wasn't more work, and more and more all the time, with no room for goofing off.  I must have done something wrong.

 

[A True Kaniggit]

2 hours ago, Zorral said:

What sort of job is that?  I ask because I've never worked anywhere in which there wasn't more work, and more and more all the time, with no room for goofing off.  I must have done something wrong.

 

I work in the billing department of a lab. My workload depends on the number of patients we have daily. (Not enough to keep me busy for 8 hours currently)

 

Edited June 23, 2022 by A True Kaniggit

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

5 hours ago, Zorral said:

What sort of job is that?  I ask because I've never worked anywhere in which there wasn't more work, and more and more all the time, with no room for goofing off.  I must have done something wrong.

 

We're literally months behind in the department I work in. But I'm essentially my own boss with zero oversight, and because I regularly find problems that are costing us tens of thousands a day and fix them quickly no one who matters cares that I screw off most of the day. Patients always giving me great reviews also helps. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

9 minutes ago, Chataya de Fleury said:

My job is strange in that it is a months-long lull of reading The Financial Times and watching Bloomberg News and doing various background sh1t, and then, for 30 days at a time (75 days after year-end) is balls to the wall 20 hours a day insanity. Oh, and an insane streak can also occur at any time that my overlords decide to restructure our debt, acquire another company, or issue equity.

I do love my job. I love the insanity.

I am not a buttoned-up, structured, month-end close accountant. That would drive me batsh1t.

I've asked you this before, but why? There isn't a single I-O psychologist in the world that would recommend this kind of workload. The quality of work degrades so rapidly that by day three you're probably less useful than if you took a few days off and came back. 

Edited June 24, 2022 by Tywin et al.

[BigFatCoward]

I'd be surprised if I do more than 2 - 3 hours work work day. I'm mainly here 'in case shit happens'. 

[Iskaral Pust]

On 6/23/2022 at 11:36 AM, Inkdaub said:

Don't say anything at all. Just hold out your hand and when he gives you the document, before he even turns away, immediately throw it in the garbage and go back to what you were doing.

I like this approach.  His attitude is inexcusable even if he has a genuine misapprehension about your relative seniority.  Unless he knows @Chataya de Fleury is his assigned administrative assistant, he has no business giving her menial administrative tasks.  Better to have a short, sharp correction early on.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

4 hours ago, Chataya de Fleury said:

Two reasons: the first is the nature of the work. There is a hard filing deadline that can’t be missed. The second is that the information that I need (example: solid Q2 numbers) comes extremely late because we are terribly understaffed.

Which is what I expected. Can it not be fixed?

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

50 minutes ago, Chataya de Fleury said:

Not at this time. It’s extraordinarily difficult to find qualified candidates. Or candidates that have realistic expectations.

Honestly, a recession might correct the labor market a bit. 

But isn't that an example of a fail business model? You work in a thriving industry for a very profitable firm. You should be able to hire more individuals and in theory there should be a ton of qualified candidates. So where are the wires not being crossed correctly?

[Iskaral Pust]

On 6/26/2022 at 12:02 PM, Tywin et al. said:

But isn't that an example of a fail business model? You work in a thriving industry for a very profitable firm. You should be able to hire more individuals and in theory there should be a ton of qualified candidates. So where are the wires not being crossed correctly?

I work for one of the most profitable businesses on the entire planet — certainly if measured by profit per employee.  We work long hours and have some intensely busy periods, even though we could comfortably afford to hire many, many more people.

Don’t underestimate the drive of the people in a place like this.  We don’t want an easy 9-5.  And we don’t want to dilute the quality pool by adding randoms — it’s definitely not easy to continue to find more people at the same level because there aren’t that many of them out there and they’re mostly locked up in their own very similar firm.  We would much rather have a narrower, more focused pool of really excellent colleagues who push each other hard and then share the profits across this smaller pool, even if it means working more — which isn’t viewed as a bad thing most of the time anyway.  The desire is to stay sharp and fully immersed.  Once you start just ambling along then everyone can tell and it’s time for you to get onto a different, slower track elsewhere.

Anyone at my firm who is my peer or more senior could retire tomorrow or find a low stress, low pay job just for enjoyment.  But very few of them do.  It’s more enjoyable to continue doing what we do until we’re absolutely burnt out.  If you leave any sooner then you feel like you left too soon.  Some brains are just hardwired to want that level of stimulus all the time.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

42 minutes ago, Iskaral Pust said:

I work for one of the most profitable businesses on the entire planet — certainly if measured by profit per employee.  We work long hours and have some intensely busy periods, even though we could comfortably afford to hire many, many more people.

Don’t underestimate the drive of the people in a place like this.  We don’t want an easy 9-5.  And we don’t want to dilute the quality pool by adding randoms — it’s definitely not easy to continue to find more people at the same level because there aren’t that many of them out there and they’re mostly locked up in their own very similar firm.  We would much rather have a narrower, more focused pool of really excellent colleagues who push each other hard and then share the profits across this smaller pool, even if it means working more — which isn’t viewed as a bad thing most of the time anyway.  The desire is to stay sharp and fully immersed.  Once you start just ambling along then everyone can tell and it’s time for you to get onto a different, slower track elsewhere.

Anyone at my firm who is my peer or more senior could retire tomorrow or find a low stress, low pay job just for enjoyment.  But very few of them do.  It’s more enjoyable to continue doing what we do until we’re absolutely burnt out.  If you leave any sooner then you feel like you left too soon.  Some brains are just hardwired to want that level of stimulus all the time.

Dude, I've spent prolonged periods working >12 hours per day with no days off. And for shit pay, so please...

 

Why would you want to completely burn yourself out? That sounds miserable. Shouldn't you try to make the next 15-20 years rather enjoyable while maximizing your earnings within that space?

[Iskaral Pust]

29 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Dude, I've spent prolonged periods working >12 hours per day with no days off. And for shit pay, so please...

 

Why would you want to completely burn yourself out? That sounds miserable. Shouldn't you try to make the next 15-20 years rather enjoyable while maximizing your earnings within that space?

Because it’s fun while you’re doing it, and it feels like a loss to step away.  You don’t stop until you feel burnt out. Any earlier is too early.