Career Chat V: the Common Ruin of the Contending Classes

[Iskaral Pust]

My boss, the president of our firm, wants me to run a spin-off investment business with him for a handful (initially) of billionaires, starting with our own CIO.  I developed a plan for the venture last year, and the initial clients want to get started.  The idea has some appeal but I think it’s bad career timing for me to go down a specific, narrow rabbit hole like this could easily be.  The financial upside for me is potentially much larger, with high risk, although the downside of headaches and insufficient infrastructure is also potentially much larger and with greater likelihood.  I need to make a decision quite soon.  I’d prefer to do it as a part-time project but I’m seen as the guy to fully own and lead it.

Aside from that, I’m still transitioning from my old role as a business unit leader for clients back toward a more investment-content role.  But, as expected, it’s difficult to really be disciplined and extract myself from the client situations.  My team is trying to step up to take more ownership and free up my time but not enough progress there yet. I think I’ll have a new senior alternate for me, which could really help me not have to get involved when anything turns complicated.

It’s nice to have options but difficult to juggle them.

[Madame deVenoge]

@Iskaral Pust - insufficient infrastructure is no joke. It’s awful, makes one feel like one is running a marathon through pudding.

[Madame deVenoge]

Well, my bonus just got slashed by 80%. Dipping into savings to pay off the credit card, and setting up a budget to get me on a better path.

That bonus had been 1/3 of my pay.

I was told that half of the reduction was Company and half was personal (note: not performance).

[Tywin et al.]

7 minutes ago, Chataya de Fleury said:

I was told that half of the reduction was Company and half was personal (note: not performance).

Is that technically legal if it's flatly admitted? 

Anyways, sorry to hear about the cut.

[Mlle. Zabzie]

1 hour ago, Chataya de Fleury said:

Well, my bonus just got slashed by 80%. Dipping into savings to pay off the credit card, and setting up a budget to get me on a better path.

That bonus had been 1/3 of my pay.

I was told that half of the reduction was Company and half was personal (note: not performance).

Ugh.  That is AWFUL.  I keep hearing about the global shortage of accountants.  Something about supply and demand?

I am told that I'm on a short list for a pretty massive promotion.  I am also relatively certain (based on some really good intel) that there is literally a snowball's chance in the furnace of Mt. Doom that I actually get it, so am more or less on the short list for window dressing.  I wish I weren't on the short list.  Now I'm going to be disappointed and there was no reason to list me if there is no intention to actually promote me.

[Tywin et al.]

7 minutes ago, Mlle. Zabzie said:

I wish I weren't on the short list.  Now I'm going to be disappointed and there was no reason to list me if there is no intention to actually promote me.

Congratulations, you're one step closer to being a minority hire in the NFL! 

[Madame deVenoge]

30 minutes ago, Mlle. Zabzie said:

Ugh.  That is AWFUL.  I keep hearing about the global shortage of accountants.  Something about supply and demand?

I am told that I'm on a short list for a pretty massive promotion.  I am also relatively certain (based on some really good intel) that there is literally a snowball's chance in the furnace of Mt. Doom that I actually get it, so am more or less on the short list for window dressing.  I wish I weren't on the short list.  Now I'm going to be disappointed and there was no reason to list me if there is no intention to actually promote me.

Dude, I don’t know what’s worse - bonus cut by 80% or being on a short list that goes nowhere. And I’m saying that for real. Not sarcastically.

Ugh, I’m gonna choose “short list that goes nowhere”. Because you can only imagine what the lifestyle would have been….

Whereas one knows damn well on a bonus cut, no matter how severe, that the tuition on the student loan can still be paid over 10 more amortizing years, in a worst case scenario. Or that Capri can be in October, not in May.

But, to think of “Office Managing Partner” status, or something, whole ‘nother level.

Edited March 14 by Chataya de Fleury

[Tywin et al.]

3 minutes ago, Chataya de Fleury said:

Dude, I don’t know what’s worse - bonus cut by 80% or being on a short list that goes nowhere. And I’m saying that for real. Not sarcastically.

Bonus cut. Budgeting based on a bonus that doesn't cash stings more than not getting a promotion you otherwise weren't expecting, and even if you feel like the latter was never going to materialize, at least you know that you're valued and can justify working harder going forward so maybe next time it's more of a reality. 

[BigFatCoward]

5 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

Bonus cut. Budgeting based on a bonus that doesn't cash stings more than not getting a promotion you otherwise weren't expecting, and even if you feel like the latter was never going to materialize, at least you know that you're valued and can justify working harder going forward so maybe next time it's more of a reality. 

God no. That's playing right into their hands. 

[Mlle. Zabzie]

Bonus cut is worse. I’m just whinging. 

[Tywin et al.]

4 hours ago, BigFatCoward said:

God no. That's playing right into their hands. 

Only if you think there's zero chance you'll ever get promoted. 

[Iskaral Pust]

Sorry @Chataya de Fleury and @Mlle. Zabzie, both situations sound bad in their own way.

Bonuses drop sharply at asset management firms when the portfolio is down.  That’s part of the cycle and you just plan for it.  But the extra personal animus that Chats has experienced lately makes it more than that.  Watching the crypto implosions and now reckless* risk management at SVB and some other regional banks makes me think there will be some new S-Ox style regs ahead for financial risk controls.  Just like post-Enron was a good job market for accountants overall even if AA imploded. 

[Iskaral Pust]

I turned down the CIO role at the spin-off venture.  I think it’s the right call.  The president is disappointed because he’s personally excited and very invested in this.  I’ll help him part time but no more than that.

My bonus this year was excellent but I’m banking most of it.  I think our most senior people will be forced to restructure our comp deals for the next few years.  I’m going to have even more of my comp tied up in future profits rather than cold, hard cash.

[Madame deVenoge]

52 minutes ago, Iskaral Pust said:

I turned down the CIO role at the spin-off venture.  I think it’s the right call.  The president is disappointed because he’s personally excited and very invested in this.  I’ll help him part time but no more than that.

My bonus this year was excellent but I’m banking most of it.  I think our most senior people will be forced to restructure our comp deals for the next few years.  I’m going to have even more of my comp tied up in future profits rather than cold, hard cash.

Yeah, there’s also a lot of comp restructuring over here; more stock is getting issued but it’s all performance shares, so a crystal ball is required.

ETA - I think you did the right thing and the risk-avoidant thing at this point.

Edited March 14 by Chataya de Fleury

[Mlle. Zabzie]

Well I am definitely not getting the promotion.  I know who is.  I also have been told that part of the narrative around me is "they don't know what the value add would be."  So, you know, I'm pretty pissed.  Not at not getting the promotion - it was being set up for this other guy and I really like him and think he'll be great.  But rather that they put me on the short list as window dressing and then dismissed me as non-value add.  Eff that noise.  

Oh well, I have a large client I'm trying to keep out of bankruptcy this evening.  So I'll go back to that.

and Isk - you definitely did the right thing.

[IheartIheartTesla]

Hmm....our company has a performance award structure that is pretty transparent, based on individual performance (that doesnt vary a lot amongst employees) and company performance that you can track per quarter. By Q4 2022 I had a pretty good idea what it would be. I'm surprised the financial sector has a more volatile PA system (although to be fair its only ~12% of my income, and what I do has minimal impact on the company bottom line)

[Madame deVenoge]

What I think our problem is, is that we have an extremely small number of people at the top and also an extremely ill-defined set of roles and responsibilities. 

Our Chief Accounting Officer (“Boy Wonder”) sometimes tries to act like he’s my boss, and then our boss is completely not willing or able to talk to us because he’s busy saving the company.

We’ve lost half the value of the company in the past year. Big Boss really is trying to keep the damn thing afloat.

But, one would think that making sure the audit got issued on time would be a pretty big deal. Boy Wonder tried his best to cut me out of the audit process, and did so, eventually, and guess what, the audit is late. We will still file on time, since we have 90 days after year end to file, but it looks BAAAAD in front of the Board.

Let’s see how he likes next year which will also feature SOX compliance and a 75 day time frame on the 10-K filing instead of 90 days. Especially if I’m not there. 

I have vowed to be helpful and do everything I can to get my bonus back next year. Meanwhile, I am desperately cutting my budget significantly - zero dinners out, housekeeper two times a month rather than every week, mani/pedi will now have to be with the new hire at the salon rather than the salon director. Personal trainer two times a month as well, no longer every week. All subscriptions but Washington Post and NYT cancelled. I am contemplating cutting the concierge doctor, as well.

Will have to dip into savings to pay off about half my credit card, and the remainder is do-able this year with extreme frugality. EXTREME.

I also have a resume out to a company that is much more stable in both its life cycle and in the face of a tough economic cycle, with a lot more on the base and less at stake on the bonus.

@IheartIheartTesla - asset management firms tend to be low (ish) on base and very high on bonus. I can’t influence the bottom line, either, but since I’m in the second tier of management, immediately below the c-suite, the general philosophy of the place applies, where it would not in a position like, say, HR.

[Iskaral Pust]

@IheartIheartTesla even our most junior people have their target bonus represent at least 20% of their target comp, with actual bonus depending on both individual and company performance, and actual bonus can vary from 0 to 2x of target bonus in any given year.  At my level, target bonus has to be at least 50% of target comp, and aside from my base+bonus I also have profit participation.  This past year with strong individual performance by me and by the firm overall, my base pay turned out to be less than 30% of my total actual comp, while bonuses and other incentives were more than 70% of total.

My comp has only grown each year at this firm but it could very easily swing downward for a year or two.

[Starkess]

On 1/27/2023 at 5:54 PM, Starkess said:

I'm waiting to hear back on a job I interviewed for--I was one of the final candidates and they said they wanted to "move fast" so I think I should know soon. If that doesn't pan out, I've got some real thinking to do about my career path.

Well, after crickets for a month, I attempted to contact [third party] recruiter with no response. Reached out to hiring manager directly (she had encouraged me if I had any questions and "are you still hiring?" is a pretty valid one IMO!) and she did not respond either! However, 2 days after emailing her, the recruiter contacted me and said the hiring manager had asked her to get in touch with me and let me know that yes, they were still hiring and yes, I am still in consideration.

That was a month ago now and nothing since then. Like I don't care (much) that I didn't get the job, but jfc ghosting me after multiple interviews and meeting me in person?? Taking over 2 months to make a decision when you claimed to be "moving fast"? Give me a break. Insulting.

Anyway, fiance and I decided I would take all of February to relax (well, work on personal projects mostly) and not worry about job hunting. That time flew by, and now I'm trying to get 2 applications out a day. I still don't totally know what I want to do, so shooting out a lot of arrows with the idea that, if I get a hit, I can learn more during the interview process. So far had one firm very similar to my past government consulting gig reach out (hard pass, I hated that job) and have a phone screen for a financial quant job that is probably way out of my comfort zone. Found I've been gravitating a lot towards data analysts job descriptions, so may try to specifically focus my search and brush up on a couple weak spots for the field.

While I'm unemployed, continuing to work on my SciComm channels, which I really missed doing, and writing a new novel, which has been a lot of fun. Stupid bills meaning I need a stupid real job 

[Tywin et al.]

1 hour ago, Starkess said:

That was a month ago now and nothing since then. Like I don't care (much) that I didn't get the job, but jfc ghosting me after multiple interviews and meeting me in person?? Taking over 2 months to make a decision when you claimed to be "moving fast"? Give me a break. Insulting.

Fuck'em, right? You're probably better off in the long run aways if that's how people in leadership feel they can treat people there.