Career Chat V: the Common Ruin of the Contending Classes

[DireWolfSpirit]

On 2/6/2023 at 9:45 PM, Tywin et al. said:

People suck. It's why we can't have nice things.

I have fealt for years my compensation is primarily for having to experience the presence of the other employees management subjects me to.

I share this theory with other workmates and my manager, it greatly amuses all.

[Iskaral Pust]

13 hours ago, DireWolfSpirit said:

I have fealt for years my compensation is primarily for having to experience the presence of the other employees management subjects me to.

I share this theory with other workmates and my manager, it greatly amuses all.

Because they probably felt the same.  Everyone thinks they’re the main character surrounded by nuisance NPCs.

[Madame deVenoge]

Well, things aren’t really getting better. The feelers I’ve put out to the job market had just been feelers. There was one role where the recruiter loved me, but the company insisted on someone with insurance experience.

Then there’s the company that originally wanted to move fast, but then they started moving slowly, but it’s the middle of earnings season, and I can’t interview until we finish and file the quarter. I told them - right now, I could mayyyybe interview on 5/5, because it’s a Friday and it’s after our earnings call, although 5/12 would be better, since we file on 5/11 and I can then take vacation.

I haven’t heard back on that, just yet.

Meanwhile, Boy Wonder is re-writing a memo that I wrote and is trying to just take over everything. And he is rude to me.

I do have a bright spot, though. More on that later.

[Tywin et al.]

54 minutes ago, Chataya de Fleury said:

Well, things aren’t really getting better. The feelers I’ve put out to the job market had just been feelers. There was one role where the recruiter loved me, but the company insisted on someone with insurance experience.

Then there’s the company that originally wanted to move fast, but then they started moving slowly, but it’s the middle of earnings season, and I can’t interview until we finish and file the quarter. I told them - right now, I could mayyyybe interview on 5/5, because it’s a Friday and it’s after our earnings call, although 5/12 would be better, since we file on 5/11 and I can then take vacation.

I haven’t heard back on that, just yet.

Meanwhile, Boy Wonder is re-writing a memo that I wrote and is trying to just take over everything. And he is rude to me.

I do have a bright spot, though. More on that later.

Focus on the positive, it will work out.

And Boy Wonder sounds like the person that demands to pack their own parachute, only to realize oops at the last second. 

[Madame deVenoge]

54 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Focus on the positive, it will work out.

And Boy Wonder sounds like the person that demands to pack their own parachute, only to realize oops at the last second. 

Yes - I cannot wait to leave and have them cycle through 5 people in one year, like what happened when I left my last role.

The positive is this: my hometown bestie works at a large turnaround company. They realized they need someone like me, because a lot of things happened that someone with my skill set could have prevented. She strongly recommended me to the c-suite. They were excited by my resume.

I also have another opportunity to consider, where they have been a little weird - timing hasn’t been quite right, and I have told them that I cannot do an in-person half day interview in the next two weeks because I am chained to the office until then. 

Company A would be fully remote. Company B would be 95% of the time in-office, and one would think that people who are in the office all the time would be considerate of someone who is also in an office and has to be a visible presence through a certain date.

So, not reaaaaallly feeling it on Company B, but it is an option, and also sets a pretty good salary / bonus benchmark.

[Jaxom 1974]

Whelp...I got put back on the market today...I don't even know how to describe the reason why. I mean, I understand what they said, but as I know I hadn't done anything...it feels like an excuse for something else. I've already got some applications out, but it's going to sting to start over again and at likely less pay...

[Madame deVenoge]

3 hours ago, Jaxom 1974 said:

Whelp...I got put back on the market today...I don't even know how to describe the reason why. I mean, I understand what they said, but as I know I hadn't done anything...it feels like an excuse for something else. I've already got some applications out, but it's going to sting to start over again and at likely less pay...

It’s rarely the reason they give. It is typically personal bs.

[Tywin et al.]

3 hours ago, Jaxom 1974 said:

Whelp...I got put back on the market today...I don't even know how to describe the reason why. I mean, I understand what they said, but as I know I hadn't done anything...it feels like an excuse for something else. I've already got some applications out, but it's going to sting to start over again and at likely less pay...

9 minutes ago, Chataya de Fleury said:

It’s rarely the reason they give. It is typically personal bs.

They always say when you leave HS you leave the petty BS behind. Reality is it often gets worse. 

[Mlle. Zabzie]

Today’s Episode:  TFW you have been advancing a proposition FOR WEEKS to solve a tricky tax issue, and then an older man sends you an email titled “New Idea” that is in fact said idea.  I’m counting to 100 in French before I reply.  

@Jaxom 1974 I am so sorry.  That really really sucks.  Hugs.

[Starkess]

An update for those following along at home: I have not received any job offers, and I just got notified that my former job wants me to repay my relo bonus. Which I know they have the right to do, but seeing as I left over 2 months ago, I was kinda hoping they weren't going to...anyway, now I am having a huge meltdown because not only am I unemployed and paying for a wedding this fall but now I need to find almost 30k to payback a relo bonus for a job that crushed my mental health and made me question everything about my future career path. Have redoubled application efforts and am contemplating selling a kidney. fml

[BigFatCoward]

Most days I think the UK is undoubtedly the worst developed country on earth. Then I remember. 

[Madame deVenoge]

13 hours ago, Starkess said:

An update for those following along at home: I have not received any job offers, and I just got notified that my former job wants me to repay my relo bonus. Which I know they have the right to do, but seeing as I left over 2 months ago, I was kinda hoping they weren't going to...anyway, now I am having a huge meltdown because not only am I unemployed and paying for a wedding this fall but now I need to find almost 30k to payback a relo bonus for a job that crushed my mental health and made me question everything about my future career path. Have redoubled application efforts and am contemplating selling a kidney. fml

I feel your pain, my dear. Questions:

1. Are you CERTAIN that you need to repay this relo bonus/assistance? If you got let go, there is often a clause that you do not have to repay if the termination was not for cause.

1a. Even if you were terminated for “performance,” performance is NOT “cause.” Cause often defined as drinking on the job, sleeping on the job, no-call no-show, sexually harassing someone.

1b. If you are receiving unemployment, you were not terminated for cause. Termination for cause renders you ineligible for unemployment.

2. If you resigned, and therefore must repay, there is often a prorated amount. It’s fairly unusual they would have you on the hook for the whole thing if you, say, worked there for 8 months and the term of “you must repay if you leave” was set at a year.

3. Again, assuming you truly are on the hook for the whole thing / worst case scenario, does the contract literally state that it is due and payable in full on demand? That would be particularly onerous and unusual.

Please reread the contract and let us know your thoughts.

Note: please keep in mind that I am an accountant and certainly not a lawyer, much less an employment attorney (with whom you may wish to consult). I have seen a few of this type of contract before, and they are all different. Just remember, it’s probably not as bad as you think it is.

Edited April 20 by Chataya de Fleury

[Kalnak the Magnificent]

I'm so sorry @Jaxom 1974. Feel free to hit me up on Linkedin if you think I can help.

[Jaxom 1974]

1 hour ago, Kalnestk Oblast said:

I'm so sorry @Jaxom 1974. Feel free to hit me up on Linkedin if you think I can help.

It oddly feels like I'm meant to move into another field, but it's not exactly easy to do after nearly 25 years...

[Starkess]

1 hour ago, Chataya de Fleury said:

 

Please reread the contract and let us know your thoughts.

Unfortunately, yeah, I resigned, am not eligible for unemployment, and the contract was quite simple and stated that I would repay in full within 90 days if I left within a year of the last service being rendered. I am going to try to talk to them about it and work out some sort of payment plan and ask for proration, but with the full understanding that I signed that dotted line. Didn't even think twice about it, I was so excited for the job...ha.

I knew all this when I decided to quit, of course, but the amount was more than I expected and having been over 2 months and still not having a new job, I do not exactly feel composed now in the face of it.

[DireWolfSpirit]

17 hours ago, Mlle. Zabzie said:

Today’s Episode:  TFW you have been advancing a proposition FOR WEEKS to solve a tricky tax issue, and then an older man sends you an email titled “New Idea” that is in fact said idea.  I’m counting to 100 in French before I reply.  

@Jaxom 1974 I am so sorry.  That really really sucks.  Hugs.

This so totally resonates with me. I have a little trick I use on management when I need or want something my way and its getting shot down. I drop the seed, repeat conversations and keep crafting those exchanges UNTIL THEY THINK ITS THIER IDEA and Voila, Voila, it suddenly happens.

Training managers is slightly annoying, but I  got a job(s) to get done.

I have tested this method and the results are like 90% of the time positive in a Dale Carnegie kind of way.

[Madame deVenoge]

17 minutes ago, DireWolfSpirit said:

This so totally resonates with me. I have a little trick I use on management when I need or want something my way and its getting shot down. I drop the seed, repeat conversations and keep crafting those exchanges UNTIL THEY THINK ITS THIER IDEA and Voila, Voila, it suddenly happens.

Training managers is slightly annoying, but I  got a job(s) to get done.

I have tested this method and the results are like 90% of the time positive in a Dale Carnegie kind of way.

Yeah, totally different with is what is happening with Zabz, because what you are doing is a Dale Carnegie method, and what she is experiencing is absolute and outright sexism.

@Starkess - I am so sorry. Your best hope is negotiation. They can enforce the contract and they probably have in house counsel. Your best method might be to call and beg for a payment plan and mention how totally unemployed you are

[DireWolfSpirit]

I agree Chataya, its a different dynamic at work, but they both stem from rude or insecure people trying to get credit for others ideas. I try to turn that table and extract something I want out of it.

Its comical (while still pathetic) watching it play out in slow motion. Once I see thier nature, I will use it against them if need be.

[IheartIheartTesla]

Folks, since I work in an area where capturing IP is quite important, and when filing it determining who needs be included in it is paramount, me and all my colleagues are pretty obsessive about documenting our ideas (including the genesis of it). It helps to have a built-in system that helps with this, but even e-mailing a colleague about your idea could be a good practice to follow (not that anyone here doesn't know this already...). In the worst case it would even help if you were to file against the employer for discrimination. tl; dr create paper trails.

@Starkess are post-docs not an option? Hiring for them tends to be more flexible/informal and doesnt involve a rigorous selection process. Pay is meh (~50-60k), and of course it is more placing careers in holding patterns while you look for something more permanent. Still, you can do some cool science and get the monkey off your back for a bit.

[Madame deVenoge]

Update on Company B:

They are pissing me off, big time, as they seem to think that their commitments are more important than my commitments for the same. This commitment on both sides is the earnings call  

They want me to interview on 4/25, because their earnings call is on 4/27. WELL, SO IS MINE. (Dates are slightly adjusted so that no one can go out there and find which companies are doing earnings calls on that day and try and figure out names)

Apparently, 4/28 is the date on which they want to give an offer to one of us three candidates. 

So, on Tuesday, we settled on 4/25, and they still won’t give me a time frame. And I have some serious other things that might come up.

I kind of want to tell them to go f—— themselves.

Also, we now have Company C, with which I have a zoom interview tomorrow.