Career Chat V: the Common Ruin of the Contending Classes

[RhaenysBee]

Manager says he wants to talk about how I am. Ah the smell of fear and manipulation… 

So what am I even supposed to say? That I’m casually looking for an international work from home job which pays me in euros, because at this rate my current salary won’t allow me to afford groceries in three months? Everybody is… [at varying degrees of casually looking for a job which allows them to afford luxuries like food, gas an electricity]. I do feel some level of sorry for him, it must be a shit feeling that even the shit team you have is falling apart. At the same time, we are all out for ourselves and this is not the time when anybody is willing to take one for the team.

or you know maybe he will fire me  

[BigFatCoward]

Just discovered a new way to interrogate duties system at work. It shows I'm owed 143 hours back. Fucking yes. Only negative is I can't take them as full days off, only half days. 

[HelenaExMachina]

I am in a strange situation at work. Generally everything is going well, I enjoy the job, enjoy my team, feel I get paid fairly, etc. However, recently there's been a situation that really just seems like a complete lack of awareness from one of the senior operations team (not directly above me but higher in the business structure I guess). She has mentioned, repeatedly, a trip she is taking to New York to pitch our services to our office there. There was a little jealousy at first of course but kind of just accepted it and moved in. But as the trip has got closer its felt more and more annoying. She is going to pitch our services without actually knowing what it my team does and how we work. Over the past week and a half I've been asked to prepare case studies, a presentation, and coach her on what it is we are able to offer. And yesterday she asked me to dial in remotely to assist with the presentation in case anyone had questions. Bearing in mind the time differences, this means I will need to stop late on the day of the presentation.

I (and others on my team) are now feeling incredibly frustrated and resentful that this person has been sent on this trip that we have done all of the work for. Not only would we have liked to go, but we'd have been more suitable. If anyone asks her a question after the presentation she won't have a clue how to respond. It feels like this doesn't even make sense from a business perspective.

Am I being u reasonable to feel so resentful? Would it be reasonable to discuss how I'm feeling about this with my manager (who also had to assist this person in prepping for the trip)? I feel petty for thinking like this but there it is

[A True Kaniggit]

Never trust the upper echelons!

It is the worst kept secret at my company that department heads get a yearly bonus for staying under budget.

Thus giving them an incentive to cut costs for the short term, even if it hurts the bottom line of the company in the long term. 

[LongRider]

1 hour ago, HelenaExMachina said:

Am I being u reasonable to feel so resentful? Would it be reasonable to discuss how I'm feeling about this with my manager (who also had to assist this person in prepping for the trip)? I feel petty for thinking like this but there it is

Here is my $0.02 and remember, they don’t mean shit. 

 While I understand your feelings of resentment and don’t think they unreasonable, letting these kinds of feelings get the better of you just makes it worse.

 If the situation won’t change, it be best to recognize that and just make the best of it as you can.

Having to support this person may not be fun, perhaps that plan will change and you won’t have to.

In my experience talking with a manager has always been a waste of time, so getting satisfaction there might prove elusive. That would be your judgment call.

Best of luck.  May your co-worker lose her luggage and have a shitty time.

 

 

 

[williamjm]

17 hours ago, HelenaExMachina said:

I (and others on my team) are now feeling incredibly frustrated and resentful that this person has been sent on this trip that we have done all of the work for. Not only would we have liked to go, but we'd have been more suitable. If anyone asks her a question after the presentation she won't have a clue how to respond. It feels like this doesn't even make sense from a business perspective.

Am I being u reasonable to feel so resentful? Would it be reasonable to discuss how I'm feeling about this with my manager (who also had to assist this person in prepping for the trip)? I feel petty for thinking like this but there it is

It doesn't sound like anything is likely to change for this trip if it's already all planned, but perhaps you can suggest that if a similar opportunity comes up in future then you would be interested in going and feel you could make a good contribution representing your team? I don't think it is petty to think it would have made more sense from a business perspective for you (or someone else from your team) to go

[Chataya de Fleury]

2 hours ago, williamjm said:

It doesn't sound like anything is likely to change for this trip if it's already all planned, but perhaps you can suggest that if a similar opportunity comes up in future then you would be interested in going and feel you could make a good contribution representing your team? I don't think it is petty to think it would have made more sense from a business perspective for you (or someone else from your team) to go

Agreed 100%, and would also chime in, here, @HelenaExMachina, that I feel your pain. In a previous role, I killed myself or at least took 5 years off my life staying up over 30 hours on filing an S-3 and related debt amendment, and the CFO invited the head of INTERNAL AUDIT to go ring the bell at the NYSE while all I got was a nice dinner with the General Counsel and our law firm. I still feel bitter about that.

Sh1t happens all the time because of favoritism and internal politics.

[HelenaExMachina]

Thank you all, appreciate the input and think quite honestly I just needed to get that out of my system somewhere. Everything you've all said sounds sensible and I'll likely just bring it up as a point in my next 1-2-1 that maybe our team should have these opportunities and would make more sense from a business perspective

[Impmk2]

So after a decade in research I've hung up my lab coat and have moved into a support role. Basically managing a small team which looks after the common research facilities, ensures we're keeping up with compliance, equipment maintenance etc etc etc. Plus side of this is I'm now in a permanent role rather than bouncing from contract to contract. 

Anyway one of the first things I'm involved with is recruiting to fill a role in the team, and we have a couple candidates our selection panel just can't split and I seem to have the deciding vote. One of them is internal and I know them pretty well, the other is external. My gut is really to go with the devil I know, though I'm afraid I'm giving the external candidate short shrift.

If I'm being honest i thought the external candidate interviewed better. However I know the internal candidate could easily do the job, and importantly I believe they'll hang around for a few years to gain experience, whereas I'm not sure at all with the external. Decisions decisions.

[Chataya de Fleury]

17 hours ago, Impmk2 said:

So after a decade in research I've hung up my lab coat and have moved into a support role. Basically managing a small team which looks after the common research facilities, ensures we're keeping up with compliance, equipment maintenance etc etc etc. Plus side of this is I'm now in a permanent role rather than bouncing from contract to contract. 

Anyway one of the first things I'm involved with is recruiting to fill a role in the team, and we have a couple candidates our selection panel just can't split and I seem to have the deciding vote. One of them is internal and I know them pretty well, the other is external. My gut is really to go with the devil I know, though I'm afraid I'm giving the external candidate short shrift.

If I'm being honest i thought the external candidate interviewed better. However I know the internal candidate could easily do the job, and importantly I believe they'll hang around for a few years to gain experience, whereas I'm not sure at all with the external. Decisions decisions.

Go with the internal candidate, if there is any hesitation.

Reason: you know them, and if you don’t go with internal, you might get a bad hire (external candidate) and lose internal candidate to be someone else’s external hire.

Remember, “in the game of jobs, one either wins, or one explores other options” (with all apologies to the boarder known as Aratan for mangling that quote).

Edited July 31, 2022 by Chataya de Fleury

[A True Kaniggit]

3 hours ago, Chataya de Fleury said:

Go with the internal candidate, if there is any hesitation.

Reason: you know them, and if you don’t go with internal, you might get a bad hire (external candidate) and lose internal candidate to be someone else’s external hire.

Remember, “in the game of jobs, one either wins, or one explores other options” (with all apologies to the boarder known as Aratan for mangling that quote).

See Madam Chataya de Fleury, you seem to be one of the good upper echelons.

 

Down with yearly percentage based raises! They are not raises, they are cost of living adjustments in disguise!

(Usually at a number below the actual cost of living increase(so in essence an annual pay cut))  

Edited August 1, 2022 by A True Kaniggit

[Chataya de Fleury]

15 hours ago, A True Kaniggit said:

See Madam Chataya de Fleury, you seem to be one of the good upper echelons.

 

Down with yearly percentage based raises! They are not raises, they are cost of living adjustments in disguise!

(Usually at a number below the actual cost of living increase(so in essence an annual pay cut))  

I agree that percentage based raises are awful. 

Pay should be held to a market standard, so that no one ever feels like they have to leave a company in order to be paid fairly. Additionally, true merit increases should be given. 

And thank you for the kind words.

Edited August 1, 2022 by Chataya de Fleury

[Iskaral Pust]

On 7/29/2022 at 6:49 PM, HelenaExMachina said:

I am in a strange situation at work. Generally everything is going well, I enjoy the job, enjoy my team, feel I get paid fairly, etc. However, recently there's been a situation that really just seems like a complete lack of awareness from one of the senior operations team (not directly above me but higher in the business structure I guess). She has mentioned, repeatedly, a trip she is taking to New York to pitch our services to our office there. There was a little jealousy at first of course but kind of just accepted it and moved in. But as the trip has got closer its felt more and more annoying. She is going to pitch our services without actually knowing what it my team does and how we work. Over the past week and a half I've been asked to prepare case studies, a presentation, and coach her on what it is we are able to offer. And yesterday she asked me to dial in remotely to assist with the presentation in case anyone had questions. Bearing in mind the time differences, this means I will need to stop late on the day of the presentation.

I (and others on my team) are now feeling incredibly frustrated and resentful that this person has been sent on this trip that we have done all of the work for. Not only would we have liked to go, but we'd have been more suitable. If anyone asks her a question after the presentation she won't have a clue how to respond. It feels like this doesn't even make sense from a business perspective.

Am I being u reasonable to feel so resentful? Would it be reasonable to discuss how I'm feeling about this with my manager (who also had to assist this person in prepping for the trip)? I feel petty for thinking like this but there it is

That would frustrate me too.  One of the things I really like about my firm is that any can (and regularly does) question any decision and call out bad logic.  No sacred cows are permitted.  It’s such a change from the usual expectation that everyone go along with bad decisions and rank favoritism.  It doesn’t mean bad decisions don’t happen but they get called out loudly enough to effect change and prevent the next one.

In your shoes, I would definitely ask my manager why she had been chosen to represent the team.  I’ve asked those sorts of questions many times.  They do often bring negative consequences though, but arguably also bring a benefit over the long term.

[Starkess]

I got the job offer! Will officially accept probably tomorrow, just pending word from my fiance's HR about whether he will be allowed to relocate. Pay offer was significantly above what I was expecting (like 30% more) so that's nice! I am very excited but also very stressed--selling my condo, moving, finding a place to live, starting a new job...it's a lot! Oh and we'll definitely have to buy a car, which is annoying. I've certainly enjoyed my carfree life these past 5 years. Luckily, with my fiance working from home and probably living close enough to be able to bike or shuttle to my office, I think we'll manage fine with just one for the two of us.

Cannot believe that I may be less than 3 weeks away from my start date!!

[HelenaExMachina]

Incredible, congrats Starkess!

[Iskaral Pust]

Great news, Starkess.  Congrats

[Chataya de Fleury]

There is currently Much Drama at my office. Lots of closed doors. I hate crap like that, because I am now a bit worried and have started to look. I called back a recruiter who has been trying to contact me, and then I called someone in my trusted network of recruiters.

We have a new Golden Boy  so my spidey senses are on alert.

[Jaxom 1974]

So the job I took about 10 months ago...it isn't as rosy as I would have liked, but it could be worse (that's coming in October I think based on what I'm hearing...).

Basically the hotel is doing well, but there has been virtually no movement towards fixing the side of Operations that I'm on.  No hiring as there are no applications (they who pay may be finally coming to realize they're not offering enough...) but there has still be no applications to fill a couple holes in the staff...and despite my requests, there's no movement to bring in an assistant to help me with the various duties...

It was bad enough in general that the Executive Chef left last month after he was finally fed up enough that F&B wasn't being supported the way he wanted, even though business levels were up.  Now, his politics are absolute shit, but in general I worked well with him.  The club he went to, he's actively put my name forward to fill a need where he is (he thought well enough of me after 9 months to do that...he did tell me he was doing it...) 

They hired a new chef already, which is good because of the two (only two!) Line cooks we had to do everything with the Chef, the old chef took one with him. I don't know about the new guy. I was told I'd be part of the interview process, yet this guy was hired and I never even saw a resume, let alone met him before he started last week.  And after he found himself with the prospect of a 15+ hour day before returning for a back to back, he had a meltdown that would have put Gordon Ramsay to shame...

I don't know if he'll last...

Took an introductory call today and waiting to see if they're going to want me to interview me.  I think I have to listen.

I mean, the job also doesn't sound ideal for what I want in terms of hours, but if there's a good enough pay bump, I may have to adapt...

Edited August 9, 2022 by Jaxom 1974

[Wade1865]

On 6/20/2022 at 11:19 PM, Chataya de Fleury said:

What does one actually say to a male colleague who asks me to make him a copy of a document?

This colleague is at the same level but seems to think he is my boss.

Hopefully, he won’t ever again ask me to make copies, but if he does, I need to be prepared. 

Chataya de Fleury -- this reminded me of when my security guard boss played the same game on me. I was an inexperienced twenty-something guard, still in college, and not yet attuned to the dark arts of Machiavellianism, and he was a middle-aged (former / retired cop?) who just assumed the leadership role over a half dozen of us.

After engaging me in a brief but positive, good-natured "how you doing" conversation like a good leader would, he abruptly ended the talk and said, "Oh, could you go get me a coffee" -- with a period, not a question mark. I didn't understand the game he was playing, but for me to get another man his coffee seemed (as a gut feeling) so odd. I said, "OK," and went across the hall to get it for him. I didn't fill it, but left the empty mug in the coffee area and after a short delay walked right back to my watch-desk. After some time, when I hadn't found him and delivered the coffee, he approached me to ask about it, but I passively ignored him until he walked away.

A small thing, but novel to me at the time; in hindsight, what he did wasn't casual, it was a dedicated attempt to establish an exploitative kind of hierarchy with me a chai boy. That was his first, and last, attempt to game me but it was fascinating to experience, and even more so to watch him do it successfully to other (older, more job-dependent) guards without the same opportunities I still had in my future. As a leader I never did this to subordinates.

[Wade1865]

2 minutes ago, Wade1865 said:

A small thing, but novel to me at the time; in hindsight, what he did wasn't casual, it was a dedicated attempt to establish an exploitative kind of hierarchy with me a chai boy. That was his first, and last, attempt to game me but it was fascinating to experience, and even more so to watch him do it successfully to other (older, more job-dependent) guards without the same opportunities I still had in my future. As a leader I never did this to subordinates.

Oh -- forgot to add, if he had been a peer I would have said to just go fuck yourself while smiling.