Career Chat V: the Common Ruin of the Contending Classes

[Wade1865]

On 6/21/2022 at 8:34 AM, Chataya de Fleury said:

I was just so stunned I said, “sure” and I don’t think my (and his - they are the same person) boss overheard because he was busy chatting with the audit partner.

Next time, I won’t say anything at that time, or I will give him the names of our interns.

Chataya de Fleury -- that's the natural response when approached by a smiling, friendly (but surprising) request. It's a calculated play and the best way to handle it is directly with humor; e.g. "fuck off," while laughing to compel his acceptance that it was "lighthearted" as opposed to coming across as defensive, and ideally in front of an audience.

An indirect response is too confusing, and getting others invovled is bad politics.

[Wade1865]

Interestingly, even though I've never been in the corporate world, but instead worked in male-only fields, most of whom were either naturally dominant or learned to be that way, I think I'd still behave the same in a large corporation (but dropping all jargon / pretense of a Soldier's way). But, no, it probably wouldn't work well.

I could imagine that saying "fuck off" to a (professionally) domineering peer while laughing at him in front of an audience of subordinates / peers would seem too inappropriate, but I don't think this way would be a miscalculation. I mean, do the directors and presidents try to fit in and play nice? I don't know, but I doubt it. It would seem to me to be unlikely, especially if I were on a track toward status and position.

[Chataya de Fleury]

5 hours ago, Wade1865 said:

Interestingly, even though I've never been in the corporate world, but instead worked in male-only fields, most of whom were either naturally dominant or learned to be that way, I think I'd still behave the same in a large corporation (but dropping all jargon / pretense of a Soldier's way). But, no, it probably wouldn't work well.

I could imagine that saying "fuck off" to a (professionally) domineering peer while laughing at him in front of an audience of subordinates / peers would seem too inappropriate, but I don't think this way would be a miscalculation. I mean, do the directors and presidents try to fit in and play nice? I don't know, but I doubt it. It would seem to me to be unlikely, especially if I were on a track toward status and position.

It’s very dependent on the corporate culture, and also, do note that women are penalized for being too aggressive, especially in a male-dominated environment.

[Derfel Cadarn]

2 hours ago, Chataya de Fleury said:

It’s very dependent on the corporate culture, and also, do note that women are penalized for being too aggressive, especially in a male-dominated environment.

Has the copier guy been behaving himself, realised you’re not his intern?

[Chataya de Fleury]

55 minutes ago, Derfel Cadarn said:

Has the copier guy been behaving himself, realised you’re not his intern?

Yes, he has been 

I’m pretty forgiving - everyone makes social mistakes. I’ve certainly made plenty in my career

[Derfel Cadarn]

A guy in my dept left recently (was a temporary post) and he left for a permanent one outside the organisation. It’s three grades higher than my post (I’m a strategic workforce planning analyst), so applied for it today.

I like my dept, my boss, and working from home, so don’t want to move, making this an ideal opportunity. The pay is £15k higher, and as its temp flr 8 months, if it foesnt get renewed/made permanent, or I dont like it, I’d simply revert back to my current role.

The application process was a pain - I managed to get my personal statement doen from 1100 words to 780 (was to aim for 750). Clicked submit two mins before the submission expiry, only to learn it was enforcing the 750 word limit!

Cue frantic cutting of words before 1200 today which was the cut off, with a minute to spare.

[BigFatCoward]

2 hours ago, Derfel Cadarn said:

 

The application process was a pain - I managed to get my personal statement doen from 1100 words to 780 (was to aim for 750). Clicked submit two mins before the submission expiry, only to learn it was enforcing the 750 word limit!

Cue frantic cutting of words before 1200 today which was the cut off, with a minute to spare.

My biggest skill is getting applications down to the word count. Everyone comes to me for it. 

On the flip side my big boss dragged me into the office today and told me I'm performing shite (she's not wrong I haven't slept for 4 years and pay and conditions changes have me totally demotivated).

I'm actually very relieved because I don't disagree and I can't keep going into work feeling like a zombie. I needed a kick up the arse, or a change of role. 

[RhaenysBee]

I feel nearly as demotivated and unaccomplished as I did at my fresh grad job. I’m not sure what age, place or employment my set of genetics was put together for, but it’s certainly not multinational corporation material. I had a meet up with former colleagues and dang I miss my previous job so much. (Which is different from regretting my resignation there, no regrets, it was probably the best moment of my feeble character, I only ever felt conviction and pride about that decision)

well the lesson here is that I need to do something significantly different. Or pursue a private life. I suppose pushing change in one area will ultimately catalyze change in the other. If only I had any damn idea what I want to do with my life career-wise. (And the guts to actually make a move) Otherwise there’s really no point in getting another corporate job that will ultimately have the same issues as the current one but perhaps pay €300 more. Man, to think that my entire career choice was based on the false concept that it would provide a well paying career… no, better not think about that. 

Edited August 19, 2022 by RhaenysBee

[Wade1865]

On 8/19/2022 at 1:17 PM, RhaenysBee said:

I’m not sure what age, place or employment my set of genetics was put together for, but it’s certainly not multinational corporation material.

well the lesson here is that I need to do something significantly different.

RhaenysBee -- curious, what do you find so unappealing in the multinational corporate world that would cause you to feel this miserable? And what are you considering as alternate options?

You described what I often felt on Sunday evenings, hours before going to sleep in anticipation of work the next day; though, ultimately, the dread (and shorter time requiremment) proved motivational as a means toward achieving my end-state (i.e. if you're going through hell, keep going).

[RhaenysBee]

5 hours ago, Wade1865 said:

RhaenysBee -- curious, what do you find so unappealing in the multinational corporate world that would cause you to feel this miserable? And what are you considering as alternate options?

You described what I often felt on Sunday evenings, hours before going to sleep in anticipation of work the next day; though, ultimately, the dread (and shorter time requiremment) proved motivational as a means toward achieving my end-state (i.e. if you're going through hell, keep going).

- Being told to follow a different direction on the same set of tasks or process every week. 
- Working on top down goals that make no sense and provide no real customer need but having to conjure up measurements to reassure the top that the goal was both met and a good idea (even though the reality is the opposite)
- all the while listening to how empowered, progressive and agile *shudder* we all are
- trying to jam several thousand people into one-size-fits-all solutions that serve no real value for any of them 
- having no time or space for running a project I actually believe in or customers actually ask for because I need to deliver on one or more of the above
- making magic happen for unrealistic and self-serving deadlines which results in poor quality magic 
- working long and tedious hours for barely valuable results that have the lifespan of a mayfly and starting over 
- the word agile (and gamification)

 

In a perfect world I would become a writer or open a coffee&pie shop or probably both. In a less than perfect but still optimal world I could get into interior design to perhaps one day afford that coffee&pie shop and maybe write freelance or as a hobby. Or I could open a thrift shop chain that sells old rustic/retro/vintage home goods. In the real world, I have no clue. 

[Wade1865]

29 minutes ago, RhaenysBee said:

In a perfect world I would become a writer or open a coffee&pie shop or probably both. In a less than perfect but still optimal world I could get into interior design to perhaps one day afford that coffee&pie shop and maybe write freelance or as a hobby. Or I could open a thrift shop chain that sells old rustic/retro/vintage home goods. In the real world, I have no clue. 

RhaenysBee -- most of what you mentioned is relatable (there seems to be a lot of overlap relative to my former profession, which was bureaucratic-heavy), particularly what you said on top-down taskings. One of my partnered colleagues and I would sometimes tell each other, "row the boat; just, row the boat," to stay motivated, hahaha -- therapeutic, maybe. Interesting glimpse into the corporate world, one I might have pursued in a different life.

Your ideal, and optimal, lifestyles sound very appealing -- pleasant, peaceful, contented. I was preparing for my own version of the ideal, about the time I found myself (early- to mid-thirties) at risk of being pushed out. I sympathize, appreciate you sharing.

[RhaenysBee]

51 minutes ago, Wade1865 said:

was preparing for my own version of the ideal, about the time I found myself (early- to mid-thirties)

So there’s hope for me yet

and thank you for listening. 

[Iskaral Pust]

I’m approaching an inflection point.  I’m almost three years at my current firm and I’m outgrowing the business unit I designed and built.  I’ve spent the last 12 months on a combination of acceleration and succession planning so that I can soon step back from the day-to-day and just retain a part-time executive sponsor role of a self-sustaining business while I move on to something new within the firm.

The two team members that I have been coaching to take over my day-to-day role are both very capable and are getting closer every day to being able to fly solo on their respective share of the responsibilities.  Plus the junior team members are stable and fully trained, with well defined roles and processes.  Of course nothing ever plays out as smoothly as planned but it’s in as good as shape as it could be absent me continuing to hover over it.

This timeframe is good too.  I’m widely regarded as being one of the most successful senior hires we’ve ever made (we have a long history of senior hires taking a long time to adapt and succeed, if they even last that long), and the expectation at the end of last year was clear that I should next expand my impact beyond my original business area.  That comes with some excitement and some career risk.  You can never feel too comfortable when you are a very expensive resource — you have to keep proving your value and there’s no way to coast.

My greatest risk in this moment is that there are a handful or wider areas where I am already informally contributing and I like them all but I’m not sure I want to choose any one for dedicated focus.  They’re all areas of innovation for new investment solutions, so any of them could fizzle out over the next couple of years (that’s the nature of experimentation), and I hate the opportunity cost that carries.  But it doesn’t seem realistic to  carry forward a bundle of them — they each need some significant hands-on leadership to get them off the ground.  So choices ahead.  I’m bringing the highest value pitch to the board soon, and already previewing it with the various board members.  I’ll have a better sense by end of year where to commit my next year or more.

I also have a weird place in the org chart now.  I just report directly to the President and stand outside of the regular org chart where my original business unit lies.  It’s nice that I’m not buried in a layer but it also means I have to assemble separate resources for the new ventures, rather than just absorbing them into an expanded version of my original team.  But new ventures need freedom from the distraction of existing work, so it has to be thus.

[Iskaral Pust]

I do occasionally daydream about a lifestyle where I don’t feel ongoing pressure to strive and compete and succeed.  I know that I am an innate striver and I’ve actively sought this out all my career and I get restless without it, but it does seem relaxing to think of a time when I can do things, and do them well, without having to worry about whether I am achieving outcomes.  Just do the thing and live in the moment and let someone else worry about goals/targets, budgets, managing people.  Ah, to be feckless and uncaring. 

[Chataya de Fleury]

I hear what you’re saying, @Iskaral Pust. Being an expensive resource means really having to justify the role.

Ive come to the conclusion I’m being gently pushed out, and I’ll do the minimum while I work on finding a new role. I’ll manage my anxiety by running or going to the gym. If I haven’t found something by June 2023, I’ll have to take a pay cut, go into consulting, and continue to keep my options open for the next big thing. I don’t want to take a pay cut, but I’d rather do that than get fired. 

[Iskaral Pust]

37 minutes ago, Chataya de Fleury said:

I hear what you’re saying, @Iskaral Pust. Being an expensive resource means really having to justify the role.

Ive come to the conclusion I’m being gently pushed out, and I’ll do the minimum while I work on finding a new role. I’ll manage my anxiety by running or going to the gym. If I haven’t found something by June 2023, I’ll have to take a pay cut, go into consulting, and continue to keep my options open for the next big thing. I don’t want to take a pay cut, but I’d rather do that than get fired. 

That’s a pity.  I thought your sector was still swimming in asset flows and faced a scramble to keep pace with all of the accounting across clients and fund vintages.

Take a look for other options.  I still get cold approaches for roles at other firms, even if the number of possible roles is much smaller at senior levels.

BTW some of the crypto and defi firms have been trying to add back office depth if you’d like something with a lot of call option upside in the comp.  I’m not a fan of that risk profile (because I’m deeply skeptical of crypto in general) but I’ve seen several colleagues and associates make that jump over the past year.  

Edited August 22, 2022 by Iskaral Pust

[Chataya de Fleury]

29 minutes ago, Iskaral Pust said:

That’s a pity.  I thought your sector was still swimming in asset flows and faced a scramble to keep pace with all of the accounting across clients and fund vintages.

Take a look for other options.  I still get cold approaches for roles at other firms, even if the number of possible roles is much smaller at senior levels.

BTW some of the crypto and defi firms have been trying to add back office depth if you’d like something with a lot of call option upside in the comp.  I’m not a fan of that risk profile (because I’m deeply skeptical of crypto in general) but I’ve seen several colleagues and associates make that jump over the past year.  

Yeah, I’m not on the private fund side anymore; I’m in a different area the grew out of one of the private funds. I can DM you more at some point because I don’t want my employer to be able to figure out who is behind my screen name here  I know we are also connected on LinkedIn  

I have no objection to going into a role of “back office depth” on crypto…I am also deeply skeptical of it, but I also have no objections to dating Republican carnivores, so it’s not like my personal values are often reflected in my close attachments as it is 

I’m definitely answering all of the recruiters who cold call or send me a LinkedIn message

[Starkess]

One week into my new job! Gods I almost forgot how stressful starting something new is. Everyone seems very nice but it's so overwhelming and I am questioning all of my choices that have led me to this point. I know that it'll take weeks to months to feel comfortable but can't I just fast forward to that part?!

[A True Kaniggit]

I have been hearing  a lot of bigotry against LGBTQ and atheists while at my current position. 
 

I’ve set up a meeting with the director of the billing department to discuss this issue tomorrow.

 

Wish me luck. This is the Deep South.

Edited September 2, 2022 by A True Kaniggit

[Derfel Cadarn]

Got an interview a week today. The other three candidates will be interviewed the following week, give or take. I’m earlier because I’m in Majorca that week.