Are the Northmen and their culture looked down upon by the rest of the Westerosi Houses?

[The Exiled Septa]

I have always wondered what are the stereotypes about the Northern houses like Stark, Mormont,Kastarks etc by the rest of the Westerosi.

From what i have gathered people see them as more brutal and unpolished compared to Tyrells or Lannisters but it seems like they are mostly forgotten.

Even in the history of Targaryens they are not mentioned much ,they dont seem to marry outside the Northern families and they seem inclusive overall with their own culture.

Martells are kinda similar in a sense that they face a lot of stereotypes from the rest of the houses but to me it also seems that they are also seen as most mysterious and desirable than say the Starks.

What is your opinion? 

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight9]

Many view the North as grim, rustic, uncivilized or even barbaric with Paxter Redwyne for example not understanding how anyone could want to live north of the Neck. 

The Cranogmen are particularly looked down or mocked as mud men or frog eaters. 

But it's nothing compared to the skagosi's reputation as barbarians and cannibals and to the fear and dread that it inspires to southerners as such. 

[Universal Sword Donor]

Yes they are.

[EggBlue]

yes , both Northern and Dornish are looked down upon which derives from their many cultural differences with the rest of Westeros. they are respectively viewed as barberic / unshaven and hot-tempered / weird . but this feeling seem to be more of an overlooking nature towards Northern since Northern had usually preferred to have unions among themselves probably because of their Gods. whereas , it's more of hostility nature towards the Dornish due to all years of wars. 

the mysteriousness and desirable quality you mentioned is only about women and not really in a good way as it happens . dornish women have more freedom than the rest, which would probably be appealing to westerosi men when it comes to sexual relations (I think gender equality in Dorne is the very thing that the rest of Westeros frown upon) . that combined with their darker skin tones , different features and lighter clothing (due to warmer weather) has turned them into exotic subjects in westerosi eyes; while the northern women in layers and layers of wool and fur and away from eastern trade market and southron fashion influence  would appear homely at best (just look at the description Yandel and Gyliden give us regarding Sara Snow and Lyanna Stark!)

[The Exiled Septa]

21 hours ago, EggBlue said:

just look at the description Yandel and Gyliden give us regarding Sara Snow and Lyanna Stark!)

Sorry i dont remember this,where is it mentioned? 

 

[Universal Sword Donor]

1 hour ago, The Exiled Septa said:

Sorry i dont remember this,where is it mentioned? 

I don't remember description about sara snow other than whichever maester said she probably didn't exist. 

[EggBlue]

more of comments than description:

Quote

His account introduces a young maiden, or “wolf girl” as he dubs her, with the name of Sara Snow. So smitten was Prince Jacaerys with this creature, .......This makes for a charming story, to be sure, but as with many of Mushroom’s fables, it seems to partake more of a fool’s fevered imaginings than of historical truth. Jacaerys Velaryon had been betrothed to his cousin Baela since he was four and she was two, and from all we know of his character, it seems most unlikely that he would break such a solemn agreement to protect the uncertain virtue of some half-wild, unwashed northern bastard. fire&blood

granted , the insulting comment of Gylidan derives partially from Sara's bastardy but the half-wild unwashed  seems to mostly refer to the northern women whose men are describe as wild and unshaven.  

then there is Yandal's comment on Lyanna Stark who was by all accounts the great love of the king whose reign Yandal describes as "glorious" (I mean, you'd think Yandal be more favorable towards Lyanna ..right?):

Quote

...The crowning of the Stark girl, who was by all reports a wild and boyish young thing.... world of ice and fire

but calling her a thing...

[H Wadsworth Longfellow]

They inhabit an impoverished part of Westeros and they only have one city.  Yeah, so they are culturally, socially, and economically disadvantaged.  The snobs in the south look down on the north. 

[Arthur Peres]

They should be, they are the weird bunch out of the seven kingdoms. 

They have a diferent religion, they are more mystic and superstitious than other regions, they are first men and not andals, they are not that wealthy, they do melee instead of jousts, they do not knight the nobility, their autumn is worse than the winter in some regions, they are more spaced populated and more rural, they have to deal with wildlings.

But the reverse is also true "even their gods are wrong" line comes to mind.

[Hugorfonics]

31 minutes ago, Arthur Peres said:

They should be, they are the weird bunch out of the seven kingdoms. 

They have a diferent religion, they are more mystic and superstitious than other regions, they are first men and not andals, they are not that wealthy, they do melee instead of jousts, they do not knight the nobility, their autumn is worse than the winter in some regions, they are more spaced populated and more rural, they have to deal with wildlings.

But the reverse is also true "even their gods are wrong" line comes to mind.

God damn Ironborn. Wait, who are we talking about?

The Dornish get weird glances cuz of their ultra feminist ways, but southrons are quick to look the other way because of the vibing culture of red wine and chess with dragons.

Northmen don't play chess, plus they're not Faithful. They are savages who worship trees, for all extensive purposes, wilding.

Speaking of savages who worship not 7, ironborn are pretty, pretty, pretty looked down on. Not just by the polished Sunset Kingdoms but by thou polished fandom; As if ironborn aren't as Set they come

[BRANDON GREYSTARK]

On 12/24/2021 at 5:36 PM, The Exiled Septa said:

I have always wondered what are the stereotypes about the Northern houses like Stark, Mormont,Kastarks etc by the rest of the Westerosi.

From what i have gathered people see them as more brutal and unpolished compared to Tyrells or Lannisters but it seems like they are mostly forgotten.

Even in the history of Targaryens they are not mentioned much ,they dont seem to marry outside the Northern families and they seem inclusive overall with their own culture.

Martells are kinda similar in a sense that they face a lot of stereotypes from the rest of the houses but to me it also seems that they are also seen as most mysterious and desirable than say the Starks.

What is your opinion? 

It is the curse of the noble savage . They admire their warrior spirit , but not their culture .

[The Exiled Septa]

11 hours ago, EggBlue said:

more of comments than description:

granted , the insulting comment of Gylidan derives partially from Sara's bastardy but the half-wild unwashed  seems to mostly refer to the northern women whose men are describe as wild and unshaven.  

then there is Yandal's comment on Lyanna Stark who was by all accounts the great love of the king whose reign Yandal describes as "glorious" (I mean, you'd think Yandal be more favorable towards Lyanna ..right?):

but calling her a thing...

Oh this is not a good description indeed,i had forgotten this.

5 hours ago, H Wadsey Longfellow said:

The snobs in the south look down on the north. 

The reverse is also true thought.I mean when Arya met Edric Dayne she said: " all Dornismen are liars and deceiving" or something along those lines,when she got angry with him.

[Lord Lannister]

Looking down on people not in your in group is a defining characteristic of a Westerosi house.

[Arthur Peres]

9 hours ago, Hugorfonics said:

God damn Ironborn. Wait, who are we talking about?

lol true.

But even in Westeros is not ok to make fun of mentally handicapped. 

[Universal Sword Donor]

11 hours ago, H Wadsey Longfellow said:

They inhabit an impoverished part of Westeros and they only have one city.  Yeah, so they are culturally, socially, and economically disadvantaged.  The snobs in the south look down on the north. 

You could say the same thing about Dorne and the SL, except they don't even have a city.

[Free Northman Reborn]

Of course. Frankly, I find it somewhat unrealistic that they don’t launch Crusades against the heathen tree worshippers. This cosy coexistence with people of what amounts to a pagan religion is quite unlike real European history. 

[The Young Maester]

4 hours ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

Of course. Frankly, I find it somewhat unrealistic that they don’t launch Crusades against the heathen tree worshippers. This cosy coexistence with people of what amounts to a pagan religion is quite unlike real European history. 

You never know maybe throughout the last thousand years they did try. I personally doubt it since we’d hear of it, but I can also see Martin adding it later on. And if he dosent do it I guess it would be because the andal invasion would be considered the crusade for the north. Since we know the north was invaded a couple times by the andals.

[Curled Finger]

I never really got the otherness of the North in the South.   There are weirwood trees--not many but some and in some cases merely stumps of heart trees in the South--even in King's Landing.   Is that some sort of cellular memory of all the 1st Men or evidence of the tolerance of the Andals?  The North is awfully far away and tends to isolate itself in culture and religion, but no one seems to mind when the North joins their wars and uprisings.  Same with the Dornish.  Aerys didn't care for the Dornishness of his granddaughter but sure expected plenty of spears for his war.  Rhaenyra and the Tywin understood the usefulness of the Iron Born in their machinations of war as well.   In these 3 separate cultures there resounds a sense of independence from the majority populations.  The Ironborn appear to be the people most willing to venture forth (though in a most confrontational and violating manner)but these visits were hardly acts of integration.  As Roland Deschain is fond of reminding his interloping companions, the majority of the South has forgotten the faces of their fathers--the 1st Men.

[Roswell]

They didn't seem to mind when Robert chose a Northern man to be Hand.  There is prejudice but it is not a big deal.  People get over it.  They got over Rhaegar marrying a Dornish.  Joffrey was going to marry Sansa.  Westeros is in many ways a melting pot of gods, culture, and customs.  What prejudice there is can be overcome.  Ther North were prejudiced against Allysanne at first and she won them over.  Sansa won over little Robert.  Walder was eager to marry Elmar to Arya.  Gifts, bribery, and flattery is a grease which can help the relationships along. 

 

[Jaenara Belarys]

On 12/26/2021 at 7:38 AM, Lord Lannister said:

Looking down on people not in your in group is a defining characteristic of a Westerosi house.

Just Westerosi nobles? I'd say that looking down at someone that's "not one of us" is a time honored tradition, the world over. Imagine the calamity when (if we get the next books) Dany gets to Westeros with an "horde of foreign savages." S8 was at least realistic in depicting that. 

Yes, I'd say there's a degree of snobbish behavior, but as @Roswell stated above they didn't mind all to much when Ned was appointed Hand. Along with other things.