Was Jon wrong to kill Janos Slynt?

[SeanF]

12 minutes ago, Lord Lannister said:

Bit of a difference between executing prisoners and executing an oathbreaker. Jon gave Slynt multiple chances to obey his order and he repeatedly refused. I guess that was weakness too?

Insubordination towards one’s comnander merits a death sentence in this world. But so does breaking faith with one’s liege.

[Lord Lannister]

7 minutes ago, Hrulj said:

Punishment for refusing to obey an order should be whipping or beating, not execution. Jon wanted revenge on Janos because of his dad, and not because of what Janos did or didn't do at the wall. I hate Jon

If only we had a POV of Jon for that execution and knew exactly what was going through his head concerning his motivations.... oh wait. 

But at least the last sentence is accurate and sums up the motivation to assigning these motivations.

[Lord Lannister]

1 minute ago, SeanF said:

Insubordination towards one’s comnander merits a death sentence in this world. But so does breaking faith with one’s liege.

Except he didn't? He made a point of not betraying his liege to save his life. By that logic Dany needed to execute everyone in Westeros... oh wait, you just eliminated the season 8 plothole, congratulations! 

[SeanF]

Just now, Lord Lannister said:

If only we had a POV of Jon for that execution and knew exactly what was going through his head concerning his motivations.... oh wait. 

But at least the last sentence is accurate and sums up the motivation to assigning these motivations.

We do.  Obtaining revenge for Ned Stark was one motive for Jon’s actions, but not the only one.

[SeanF]

3 minutes ago, Lord Lannister said:

Except he didn't? He made a point of not betraying his liege to save his life. By that logic Dany needed to execute everyone in Westeros... oh wait, you just eliminated the season 8 plothole, congratulations! 

Tarly was sworn to House Tyrell.  He opted to serve the murderer of his liege lord.

Edited March 14, 2022 by SeanF

[Lord Lannister]

4 minutes ago, SeanF said:

Tarly was sworn to House Tyrell.  He opted to serve the murderer of his liege lord.

But that's not why Dany said she executed him. C'mon, you're trying way to hard to spin that.

[SeanF]

14 minutes ago, Lord Lannister said:

But that's not why Dany said she executed him. C'mon, you're trying way to hard to spin that.

She executed him because he fought her and lost, and then refused to give her fealty.  My own view is that she ought not to have given him the option of pledging fealty, but rather should have executed him to avenge her allies.

Edited March 14, 2022 by SeanF

[Aejohn the Conqueroo]

1 hour ago, Hrulj said:

 I hate Jon

He doesn't hate you.  (between you and me, he's not even real)

[Jaenara Belarys]

11 minutes ago, Aejohn the Conqueroo said:

He doesn't hate you.  (between you and me, he's not even real)

Yes, but we humans specialize in taking things too seriously. Possibly why some people seem to live here. 

[Bowen Marsh]

Was Jon wrong to kill Janos Slynt?

Jon was wrong to kill Janos Slynt.  He started going wrong with that decision.  He went really crazy by ordering Mance and the spear wives to sneak his sister away from her husband, Ramsay B.  I had to stab him you know.  Jon had become a dangerous liability to the Watch and to Westeros. 

Edited March 14, 2022 by Bowen Marsh

[Bowen Marsh]

On 2/5/2022 at 5:17 PM, Rosetta Stone said:

Jon was fickle.  He killed Janos Slynt but gave mercy to Mance Rayder.  The execution was not justice. 

Emotion is Jon's real sin in that execution.  But what made him fickle is his bias and prejudice.  Jon could not leave his love and loyalty to the Starks out of the wall.  Jon was not fit to lead.  His head was not in the right place. 

[The Young Maester]

Imagine having so much hate for a fictional character that you go so low as to write angry posts about how he is so evil and deserves to die etc. The sad part is also that some peoples post history in these forums contain character bashing for like the next 10 pages.

I thought tribal politics and obsessions with certain people was bad, but this specific issue is worse.

[Lyanna<3Rhaegar]

On 3/14/2022 at 2:53 PM, SeanF said:

We do.  Obtaining revenge for Ned Stark was one motive for Jon’s actions, but not the only one.

Oh? Please quote the passage where Jon tells us this. 

[Lyanna<3Rhaegar]

On 3/14/2022 at 6:12 PM, Bowen Marsh said:

Was Jon wrong to kill Janos Slynt?

Jon was wrong to kill Janos Slynt.  He started going wrong with that decision.  He went really crazy by ordering Mance and the spear wives to sneak his sister away from her husband, Ramsay B.  I had to stab him you know.  Jon had become a dangerous liability to the Watch and to Westeros. 

Ahh I have missed you & our ridiculous, non-productive discussions. Still spouting the same nonsense, I see. 

 

1. No he wasn't. 

2. He didn't order Mance & the spear wives to do anything. Please quote that passage. 

3. (f)Arya was already away from Ramsay in the vision, not that it matters, the man is a sadistic lunatic & no one should be exposed to him. 

 

[The Wolves]

On 3/12/2022 at 1:06 PM, Skahaz mo Kandaq said:

@The Wolves

A Lord Commander is supposed to be above making things personal.  So Jon was wrong to allow it to become so.  He was even more wrong to execute Slynt. 

JON. WAS. NOT. THE. ONE. TO. MAKE. IT. PERSONAL. 
 

Slynt was the one who was antagonist and prejudice against Jon. It was Slynt who had something against Jon because he was Ned Stark’s son. 
 

Jon never allowed anything to become personal until Slynt did(who did since the beginning) 

[Moiraine Sedai]

There was bad blood between Jon and Janos. The NW does not make, and cannot, make allowances to allow people to act on those feelings. The NW could have never survived if it did.  

[SeanF]

5 hours ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

Oh? Please quote the passage where Jon tells us this. 

Just before he offers Slynt Greyguard, Jon is musing.

"Jon slid the oilcloth down his bastard sword, watching the play of morning light across the ripples, thinking how easily the blade would slide through the fat and sinew to part Slynt's ugly head from his body.  All of a man's crimes were wiped away when he took the black, and all his allegiances as well, yet he found it hard to think of Slynt as a brother.  There is blood between us.  This man helped slay my father and did his best to have me killed as well."

That doesn't alter the fact that Slynt's execution was justified.  It's just that for Jon, his duty was a pleasure too.

Edited March 16, 2022 by SeanF

[Aejohn the Conqueroo]

14 minutes ago, SeanF said:

Just before he offers Slynt Greyguard, Jon is musing.

"Jon slid the oilcloth down his bastard sword, watching the play of morning light across the ripples, thinking how easily the blade would slide through the fat and sinew to part Slynt's ugly head from his body.  All of a man's crimes were wiped away when he took the black, and all his allegiances as well, yet he found it hard to think of Slynt as a brother.  There is blood between us.  This man helped slay my father and did his best to have me killed as well."

That doesn't alter the fact that Slynt's execution was justified.  It's just that for Jon, his duty was a pleasure too.

But like you say, these were Jon's reflections before offering Slynt Greyguard. Now unless someone is making the assertion that the offer was only made because Jon knew Slynt would refuse and the rest would unfold as it did ( I don't think we've seen anything to suggest that Jon plays people that thoughtfully or skillfully)this is proof that Jon's disposition and actions towards Slynt were in line with his vows.  Sure there was probably some satisfaction when that head hit the ground, but I suspect there was some regret and sense of failure as well.

[Buried Treasure]

Jon's decision to order Slynt hanged was purely him as Lord Commander. Slynt would not take orders, which made him a useless mouth to feed and a danger to disciple. Justice in that decision is irrelevant;  Aemon taught Jon that honour is a luxury he cannot afford in his duty to holding the Wall, and justice is an aspect of that.

 

Jon's decision not have Slynt hanged but to take his head himself was tied to him being of the Starks. It was Ned's teaching to do the deed himself, and it was in that action that it felt like justice.

[Lyanna<3Rhaegar]

2 hours ago, SeanF said:

Just before he offers Slynt Greyguard, Jon is musing.

"Jon slid the oilcloth down his bastard sword, watching the play of morning light across the ripples, thinking how easily the blade would slide through the fat and sinew to part Slynt's ugly head from his body.  All of a man's crimes were wiped away when he took the black, and all his allegiances as well, yet he found it hard to think of Slynt as a brother.  There is blood between us.  This man helped slay my father and did his best to have me killed as well."

That doesn't alter the fact that Slynt's execution was justified.  It's just that for Jon, his duty was a pleasure too.

I'll agree his duty was a pleasure, I thought you were saying he killed Janos because of his father. He didn't. He thought of that yes. He may have even been happy Janos gave him a reason but he still waited until he had a reason.