Lothston, Whent, Blackwood and Stark bloodlines.

[Wolfcrow]

1 hour ago, Willam Stark said:

Bad example, we have both males and females skinchangers.

You can have hemophiliac women , like you can have warg women,but this is where you need both sides to have it. 

1 hour ago, Willam Stark said:

Same-sex couples cannot have children of their own blood, nothing weird here.

They could take sons or little boys etc etc. though and make them have children with their daughters and family women.

 

1 hour ago, Willam Stark said:

Well, in this case, he has Blackwood ancestry on both sides, combined to his Stark ancestry. About Bloodraven, his paternal grandmother, Larra Rogare, was likely a cat skinchanger. In fact, she was suspected to use cats as spies, because a lot of them were coming and going in her chambers frequently. Some people even said that she was able to transform herself into a cat, which is a common rumor when people talk about wargs and they (The Wargs) are feared for that.

We don't know anything sure about her though yes he could have it in his gene and help, but the side we know for sure has warg powers is his mothers.

Considering Targaryens had a problem with hatching dragon eggs and most of the dragons hatched were at the time many Targaryen women had them, along with the fact that most myths are about human men take a magical woman (night's king, duran, tiger woman etc etc),it seems that in humans the ability it's connected stronger with women, as far as herritage goes, not about the ability being active. Garth gave his x to his daughters and one of them was a warg (bc her mother too had at least one x with the gene), since we know that Cranes had rumors about skinchanging. We don't have any warg rumors about this sons though and that is actually pretty weird if you think about it. 

If it's connected to the X chromosome if a guy has a magical mother he has the power for sure YX, but a girl can have the gene without the active ability, since she needs XX (from both parents). This is why  we have many men have it active, but men with random mothers don't have it. Bran, Jon, Rickon and Robb has the Y from their fathers, so they need the X from their mothers. On the other side Arya, for sure ,has an XX  from her her mother. Sansa we don't know if she is a full warg since lady is dead, so either a XX or XX like Cat. That means that as far as men goes the father doesn't matter about the ability, the male line starts to play an important role in the abiities of women. 

If the passing the magic ability( not have it,pass it it's not the same. You can have something and not pass it) was not connected to matrilineal line, like lets say eye colours or hair etc etc, then Targaryens would have more dragons and wargs would be all oner the place running here and there,bc men are having bastard kids all over westeros since they set foot there. And even if not all over westeros, then wildlings for sure would have WAY more wargs. The thing is that you need it on both parts ,yes, but the gene is passing from mother to son and from mothers to daughters and from fathers to daughters ,since, even the gene passing down to a girl from her father it's passed down to him by his mother. BUT, it cannot be passed down fromfather to son, because if this was the case everyone would have the predisposition to be a skinchanger or in general magical.

[direpupy]

You are comparing passing a magical ability with a genetic defect, not the most likely thing to atach a magical ability to you would want something that is always passed on to ensure the magical ability survives.

 

[Wolfcrow]

30 minutes ago, direpupy said:

You are comparing passing a magical ability with a genetic defect, not the most likely thing to atach a magical ability to you would want something that is always passed on to ensure the magical ability survives.

 

It's a comparison on why it's probably sex-linked and it has to do with mothers, that's why i compaire it to haemophilia. 

Magic in this universe seems linked to blood,it's hereditary. It cannot be Y linked because we have female wargs, it makes the most sense to be linked with X for that reason. Now if it's not linked to sex, we have two big ??. One is Jojen and the second is Varymir. The first is not a skinchanger not a greenseer, the only reason he has greendreams it's because he almost died, from this point and afterthe dreams started. It was 99% bloodraven.About Varymir we have a different problem, if the magic in the blood and is not linked with sex , he could sould have at least one, of his MANY children be magical if the gene is dominant, but he hasn't. If it is lets say blue and brown eye gene and it can be passed down from either parent, he should have all non-magical, if the gene is the non-dominant one, but here we have the problem with Cat an Ned. Both of them aren't skinchangers, that means that they cannot have all magical kids, bc it's like 2 brown eyed parents having all blue eyed kids. Also, we would have way more skinchangers in general and it wouldn't be that rare. So, it is probably linked to X. And again we only see normal men take magical women in almost every myth, it's probably because it's linked, connected to women.

Edit: Plus if not sex linked then we should have pretty much the same amount of female skinchangers with male, but we don't. So it is linked to the X one, and girls need two active X for themto be wargs unlike men that need one. 

[Megorova]

16 hours ago, direpupy said:

There are no marriages or children given in any of the books for Raya and Mariah Stark so you are just making this up yourself, half of the rest of what you say is depended on you having made up marriages and children for them, so all in all what you say is not likely at all.

Just because this information wasn't revealed yet in the books, doesn't mean that it's not part of their history. There is a gap in the Stark family tree. I see on that tree certain patterns, and based on those patterns I filled in those gaps. Maybe I am wrong, though there is a possibility that I am actually right.

1. Sarra and Lorra.

2. Raya and Arya.

3. Alys Stark and Alys Karstark.

4. Mariah Stark - Melissa Blackwood - Mya Rivers - Melantha Blackwood.

Mia is a shortening of name Mariah, and there's Mya Rivers two generations later. Names Melissa and Melantha could be shortened to Mel. So there is a "Mia/Mya - Mel" pattern there.

Also if Melissa Blackwood, who was Aegon IV's mistress, was Cregan Stark's granddaughter, it explains why Cregan fought in a duel againts Aemon the Dragonknight, who was a Kingsguard and King Aegon's sworn shield. Cregan wanted Aegon to end his relationship with Cregan's granddaughter, so he challenged the King to a duel, and because in cases like this instead of the King usually fights his sworn shield/sword (like it was in case after Bethany Bracken's death, in result of that fight the Dragonknight died, while fighting for Aegon), Cregan fought with Aemon and defeated him. So afterwards Aegon broke up with Melissa, and then hooked up with Bethany, who was leaving nearby.

5. Two of Cregan's sons (Jonnel and Edric) married with their nieces (Sansa and Serena). And because in ASOIAF and its companion books there are all sorts of trinities, it is likely that to complete the trinity, there could be one more son of Cregan's, who also had married with his niece. So I think that Brandon Stark's wife - Alys Karstark, was his niece and a daughter of Brandon's half-sister - Alys Stark.

And so what that the mother and the daughter had the same name? Because one of them, probably the daughter, was usually called Aly, same as was nickname of her maternal grandmother Alysanne Blackwood - Black Aly.

6. Also it makes sense that Alysanne Blackwood and Betha Blackwood were nicknamed Black Aly and Black Betha, because Betha was Alysanne's great-great-granddaughter.

Alysanne Blackwood - Mariah Stark - Melissa Blackwood - Mya Rivers - Melantha and Betha Blackwoods.

7. Also it makes sense that Beron Stark, who was a son of Alys Karstark and Cregan's last son - Brandon Stark, named one of his daughters Alysanne. If you will look at his family tree - Brandon's mother was Lynara Stark - Cregan's third wife. So why would have Beron named his daughter Alysanne, if he himself was not one of Alysanne Blackwood's descendants? He gave her that name, because his wife - Alys Karstark, was a daughter of Brandon's older sister - Alys Stark, whose mother was Alysanne Blackwood. 

So there's this pattern: Alysanne Blackwood - Alys Stark - Alys Karstark - Beron Stark - Alysanne Stark.

So Alysanne Stark is a great-great-granddaughter of Alysanne Blackwood.

Also, if my theory is correct (and it IS) then the pattern continues - same as one of Alysanne Blackwood's great-great-granddaughters was named Alysanne, one of Alysanne Stark's great-great-granddaughters also was named Alysanne - it was Brienne Tarth's older sister - Alysanne Tarth.

Alysanne Stark is Old Nan, and she was Duncan the Tall's paramour, and gave birth to his twin-children. Their son was a paternal grandfather of Walder/Hodor (Hodor's real name is Walder, because Nan's family, when she got pregnant, married her off to Franklyn Frey - Walder Frey's paternal uncle), and their daughter was a maternal grandmother of Meris Cafferen - Brienne's mother.

Alysanne Stark + Dunk = son and daughter.

Son + wife = grandson + wife = Hodor.

Daughter + husband (squire of Tytos Lannister and founder of House Clegane) = a son* and a daughter**.

[I kind of don't remember this part clearly, though it's written in one of my threads. Swan Song 6/16 (the links are in my signature), it's about Old Nan's descendants, so I wrote there their complete family tree, including with whom married the children of Nan and Franklyn. So look it there, because maybe here I wrote something incorrectly.]

Grandson* + wife = Gregor, Sandor Cleganes.

Granddaughter** + Cafferen-husband = Meris Cafferen / Wenda the White Fawn / Pretty Meris from Windblown sellswords company, whose general is Tattered Prince (possibly his name is Duncan Stark, and he is a son of Arya Flint and the Wandering Wolf Rodrik Stark. So Meris is his great-niece or something like that).

Meris + Selwyn Tarth = Galladon, Arianne, Alysanne, Brienne (or maybe Galladon was not one of Meris' children. Who knows, maybe Selwyn had several wives).

Eitherway the pattern here is:

Alysanne Blackwood - 3 people between them - Alysanne Stark - 3 people between them - Alysanne Tarth.

 

Do you see those patterns? No? Well, just because you don't, doesn't mean that they aren't there. All THAT can't be just a coincidence. Thus let's wait for the next book, or for F&B V2, because I'm sure that in there GRRM will reveal the complete family tree of the Starks, and then you will see that I was right (or wrong ).

[Megorova]

8 hours ago, Corvo the Crow said:

What about Jyana? Is She a secret Stark or Blackwood?

She's Ashara Dayne.

[Willam Stark]

2 hours ago, Forward-Speaker-5979 said:

They could take sons or little boys etc etc. though and make them have children with their daughters and family women.

Political choice. It's like asking me "Why Ned didn't agree to marry Robb to Alys Karstark?", this doesn't rule out the need to have a father who carries the gene or even that it is less likely.

2 hours ago, Forward-Speaker-5979 said:

We don't know anything sure about her though yes he could have it in his gene and help, but the side we know for sure has warg powers is his mothers.

We don't know that either, we only know that Bloodraven is both a skinchanger and greenseer, that's all.

Even though I agree with you on this part, this is speculation and not more likely than mine.

2 hours ago, Forward-Speaker-5979 said:

it seems that in humans the ability it's connected stronger with women

Nothing shows it.

2 hours ago, Forward-Speaker-5979 said:

We don't have any warg rumors about this sons though and that is actually pretty weird if you think about it. 

We have male wargs in the saga, this is much better than legends.

2 hours ago, Forward-Speaker-5979 said:

BUT, it cannot be passed down fromfather to son, because if this was the case everyone would have the predisposition to be a skinchanger or in general magical.

We are not even sure that skinchanging is hereditary, you can't take it as a fact and try to rule out the need to have a father who carries the gene, based on that and legends.

[Wolfcrow]

4 minutes ago, Willam Stark said:

We are not even sure that skinchanging is hereditary, you can't take it as a fact and try to rule out the need to have a father who carries the gene, based on that and legends.

As I said in another comment:

Magic in this universe seems linked to blood,it's hereditary, if it was not then we wouldn't have families linked to magic like the Starks or Targaryens. Or we wouldn't have all this shit with the sacrifises.

It cannot be Y linked because we have female wargs, it makes the most sense to be linked with X for that reason. Now if it's not linked to sex, we have two big ??. One is Jojen and the second is Varymir. The first is not a skinchanger or a greenseer, the only reason he has greendreams it's because he almost died, from this point and after the dreams started. It was 99% bloodraven that reached him when in near death. About Varymir we have a different problem, if the magic in the blood, is not linked with sex, he sould have at least one, of his MANY children be magical if the gene is dominant, but he hasn't. If it is lets say like the eye colour gene and it can be passed down from either parent, he should have all non-magical kids only if .  the gene is the non-dominant one. But now we have the problem with Cat an Ned. Both of them aren't skinchangers, that means that they cannot have all magical kids, bc it's like 2 brown eyed parents having all blue eyed kids, pretty dificult conceadering Bran is realy strong too.

Also, we would have way more skinchangers in general and it wouldn't be that rare. Because people fuck each other and the blood it's passing all over the pleace. So again not possible. 

So, it is probably linked to X. And again we only see normal men take magical women in almost every myth, it's probably because it's linked, connected to women.

Plus, if not sex linked then we should have pretty much the same amount of female skinchangers with male, but we don't. So it is linked to the X one, and girls need two active X for them to be wargs because the non active balance out the active one, unlike men that need one. This is why girls are more rare. 

Even Bran chapters he thinks female ancestors and how he took from them, his ability to climb. The thing is that the whole scene is at a part when he explore a different ability of his, His greenseer one and we think about Arya Flinnt. Similar things happened all the time, with Alys, Meantha, Blackravens mother. Even if it doesn't work like genetics exactly (which it's the case), it's still hinted that the female line is the one carrying the gene. And I'm saying again carrying and not having it active, bc the thing that you keep bringing up about men having more often the ability doesn't matter. Men have genes from their mothers, but if it is sex link they cannot pass it.

[Willam Stark]

13 hours ago, Forward-Speaker-5979 said:

Magic in this universe seems linked to blood,it's hereditary, if it was not then we wouldn't have families linked to magic like the Starks or Targaryens. Or we wouldn't have all this shit with the sacrifises.

This doesn't prove that skinchanging or any other magic is hereditary, we have good reasons to think about it but we cannot take it as a fact. The only thing we know for sure is that the Targaryen and their link with dragons is hereditary.

13 hours ago, Forward-Speaker-5979 said:

The first is not a skinchanger or a greenseer, the only reason he has greendreams it's because he almost died, from this point and after the dreams started.

Nothing proves that greendreams is hereditary, and as you said he is not a skinchanger or a greenseer, so it's out of subject.

13 hours ago, Forward-Speaker-5979 said:

About Varymir we have a different problem, if the magic in the blood, is not linked with sex, he sould have at least one, of his MANY children be magical if the gene is dominant, but he hasn't.

Check my first sentence.

13 hours ago, Forward-Speaker-5979 said:

Also, we would have way more skinchangers in general and it wouldn't be that rare.

This is not how probabilities work. Bloodraven said that 1 person in 1000 become a skinchanger, meaning that at each birth, the newborn has 0,1% chance to become a skinchanger, regardless of other births. Due to this independence, you may never find any skinchanger among 1000 births that occur at the same time or having 2-3 skinchangers in the process. Yes, skinchanging can be that rare, because the probability is very small. Also, you have to take the plot into account, the general population and the fact that a skinchanger may never awake his power in his life, it's not an innate ability.

13 hours ago, Forward-Speaker-5979 said:

Because people fuck each other and the blood it's passing all over the pleace. So again not possible. 

Recessive genes can skip generations, even dominant ones, but it's less likely in the second case.

13 hours ago, Forward-Speaker-5979 said:

So, it is probably linked to X.

Not necessarily.

13 hours ago, Forward-Speaker-5979 said:

And again we only see normal men take magical women in almost every myth, it's probably because it's linked, connected to women.

Yeah, there is a link but that doesn't rule out men.

13 hours ago, Forward-Speaker-5979 said:

Plus, if not sex linked then we should have pretty much the same amount of female skinchangers with male, but we don't.

Again, that's not how probabilities work.

[Corvo the Crow]

2 hours ago, Megorova said:

She's Ashara Dayne.

And somehow Reed kids have never noticed thier mother's haunting violet eyes? Or is that a common, very crannogmen like feature?

[Megorova]

3 hours ago, Corvo the Crow said:

And somehow Reed kids have never noticed thier mother's haunting violet eyes? Or is that a common, very crannogmen like feature?

She could have died after Jojen's birth (not at the time of Robert's Rebellion but a few years later). I had this impression about the relationship between Howland and his children, that Howland is a single father, a widower.

[direpupy]

20 hours ago, Megorova said:

Just because this information wasn't revealed yet in the books, doesn't mean that it's not part of their history. There is a gap in the Stark family tree. I see on that tree certain patterns, and based on those patterns I filled in those gaps. Maybe I am wrong, though there is a possibility that I am actually right.

1. Sarra and Lorra.

2. Raya and Arya.

3. Alys Stark and Alys Karstark.

4. Mariah Stark - Melissa Blackwood - Mya Rivers - Melantha Blackwood.

Mia is a shortening of name Mariah, and there's Mya Rivers two generations later. Names Melissa and Melantha could be shortened to Mel. So there is a "Mia/Mya - Mel" pattern there.

Also if Melissa Blackwood, who was Aegon IV's mistress, was Cregan Stark's granddaughter, it explains why Cregan fought in a duel againts Aemon the Dragonknight, who was a Kingsguard and King Aegon's sworn shield. Cregan wanted Aegon to end his relationship with Cregan's granddaughter, so he challenged the King to a duel, and because in cases like this instead of the King usually fights his sworn shield/sword (like it was in case after Bethany Bracken's death, in result of that fight the Dragonknight died, while fighting for Aegon), Cregan fought with Aemon and defeated him. So afterwards Aegon broke up with Melissa, and then hooked up with Bethany, who was leaving nearby.

5. Two of Cregan's sons (Jonnel and Edric) married with their nieces (Sansa and Serena). And because in ASOIAF and its companion books there are all sorts of trinities, it is likely that to complete the trinity, there could be one more son of Cregan's, who also had married with his niece. So I think that Brandon Stark's wife - Alys Karstark, was his niece and a daughter of Brandon's half-sister - Alys Stark.

And so what that the mother and the daughter had the same name? Because one of them, probably the daughter, was usually called Aly, same as was nickname of her maternal grandmother Alysanne Blackwood - Black Aly.

6. Also it makes sense that Alysanne Blackwood and Betha Blackwood were nicknamed Black Aly and Black Betha, because Betha was Alysanne's great-great-granddaughter.

Alysanne Blackwood - Mariah Stark - Melissa Blackwood - Mya Rivers - Melantha and Betha Blackwoods.

7. Also it makes sense that Beron Stark, who was a son of Alys Karstark and Cregan's last son - Brandon Stark, named one of his daughters Alysanne. If you will look at his family tree - Brandon's mother was Lynara Stark - Cregan's third wife. So why would have Beron named his daughter Alysanne, if he himself was not one of Alysanne Blackwood's descendants? He gave her that name, because his wife - Alys Karstark, was a daughter of Brandon's older sister - Alys Stark, whose mother was Alysanne Blackwood. 

So there's this pattern: Alysanne Blackwood - Alys Stark - Alys Karstark - Beron Stark - Alysanne Stark.

So Alysanne Stark is a great-great-granddaughter of Alysanne Blackwood.

Also, if my theory is correct (and it IS) then the pattern continues - same as one of Alysanne Blackwood's great-great-granddaughters was named Alysanne, one of Alysanne Stark's great-great-granddaughters also was named Alysanne - it was Brienne Tarth's older sister - Alysanne Tarth.

Alysanne Stark is Old Nan, and she was Duncan the Tall's paramour, and gave birth to his twin-children. Their son was a paternal grandfather of Walder/Hodor (Hodor's real name is Walder, because Nan's family, when she got pregnant, married her off to Franklyn Frey - Walder Frey's paternal uncle), and their daughter was a maternal grandmother of Meris Cafferen - Brienne's mother.

Alysanne Stark + Dunk = son and daughter.

Son + wife = grandson + wife = Hodor.

Daughter + husband (squire of Tytos Lannister and founder of House Clegane) = a son* and a daughter**.

[I kind of don't remember this part clearly, though it's written in one of my threads. Swan Song 6/16 (the links are in my signature), it's about Old Nan's descendants, so I wrote there their complete family tree, including with whom married the children of Nan and Franklyn. So look it there, because maybe here I wrote something incorrectly.]

Grandson* + wife = Gregor, Sandor Cleganes.

Granddaughter** + Cafferen-husband = Meris Cafferen / Wenda the White Fawn / Pretty Meris from Windblown sellswords company, whose general is Tattered Prince (possibly his name is Duncan Stark, and he is a son of Arya Flint and the Wandering Wolf Rodrik Stark. So Meris is his great-niece or something like that).

Meris + Selwyn Tarth = Galladon, Arianne, Alysanne, Brienne (or maybe Galladon was not one of Meris' children. Who knows, maybe Selwyn had several wives).

Eitherway the pattern here is:

Alysanne Blackwood - 3 people between them - Alysanne Stark - 3 people between them - Alysanne Tarth.

 

Do you see those patterns? No? Well, just because you don't, doesn't mean that they aren't there. All THAT can't be just a coincidence. Thus let's wait for the next book, or for F&B V2, because I'm sure that in there GRRM will reveal the complete family tree of the Starks, and then you will see that I was right (or wrong ).

Which still makes everything you say fanfic and not canon, maybe i read over it but i never see you say anywhere that this is your theory and nothing more, you are presenting this as facts which there not. I don't mind a theory i do mind theory's being presented as facts.

[Corvo the Crow]

14 hours ago, Megorova said:

She could have died after Jojen's birth (not at the time of Robert's Rebellion but a few years later). I had this impression about the relationship between Howland and his children, that Howland is a single father, a widower.

Nope.

A Dance with Dragons-Appendix - A Wiki of Ice and Fire (westeros.org)

A Feast for Crows-Appendix - A Wiki of Ice and Fire (westeros.org)

[direpupy]

21 hours ago, Forward-Speaker-5979 said:

It's a comparison on why it's probably sex-linked and it has to do with mothers, that's why i compaire it to haemophilia. 

Magic in this universe seems linked to blood,it's hereditary. It cannot be Y linked because we have female wargs, it makes the most sense to be linked with X for that reason. Now if it's not linked to sex, we have two big ??. One is Jojen and the second is Varymir. The first is not a skinchanger not a greenseer, the only reason he has greendreams it's because he almost died, from this point and afterthe dreams started. It was 99% bloodraven.About Varymir we have a different problem, if the magic in the blood and is not linked with sex , he could sould have at least one, of his MANY children be magical if the gene is dominant, but he hasn't. If it is lets say blue and brown eye gene and it can be passed down from either parent, he should have all non-magical, if the gene is the non-dominant one, but here we have the problem with Cat an Ned. Both of them aren't skinchangers, that means that they cannot have all magical kids, bc it's like 2 brown eyed parents having all blue eyed kids. Also, we would have way more skinchangers in general and it wouldn't be that rare. So, it is probably linked to X. And again we only see normal men take magical women in almost every myth, it's probably because it's linked, connected to women.

Edit: Plus if not sex linked then we should have pretty much the same amount of female skinchangers with male, but we don't. So it is linked to the X one, and girls need two active X for themto be wargs unlike men that need one. 

I understand what your saying, i just don't think that the person who created the original inheritable ability (probably true bloodmagic) would have chosen to have it follow the pattern of a genetic defect. Heteroplasmy would be a much beter example. Because while it can have adverse effects it can also have beneficial effects, with people who live to be over a 100 years old showing a higher than average degree  of Heteroplasmy.

Short explanation, mtDNA normally only inherited via the mother also inherited via the father leading to the presence of more then one type of organellar genome.

[Megorova]

20 hours ago, Corvo the Crow said:

23 hours ago, Megorova said:

She's Ashara Dayne.

And somehow Reed kids have never noticed thier mother's haunting violet eyes?

2 hours ago, Corvo the Crow said:

16 hours ago, Megorova said:

She could have died after Jojen's birth

Nope.

Whether she's alive or dead, her children are and always were aware that she is Ashara Dayne, because of how they were telling to Bran the story about what happened at Harrenhal, how Howland all evening was watching with whom Ashara danced, because he liked her. The people at the Neck probably know who Jyana really is, or maybe they don't know, because it's not like they were part of the Targaryen court and had many opportunities to see Ashara Dayne, prior to her supposed death and disappearance. So if she is alive now, she does have violet-colored eyes, and the people that live at the Neck don't make it a news-story that the wife of their Lord has violet eyes.

You asked about Jyana whether she's a secret Stark or Blackwood, and it makes perfect sense if she is Ashara Dayne. They met at Harrenhal (which is a fact), then probably got involved because of Lyanna, and then Rhaegar brought Lyanna to Starfall, so that's probably when and how  Howland and Ashara got together. After the events at the Tower of Joy, Ashara left her family and they said to people that she died, while actually she went with Howland and newborn Meera to the Neck. It's just that if Jyana was a Stark or a Blackwood, then what's the point for GRRM not to just write in the Appendix that she is Jyana of House Stark or House Blackwood. Why to hide this information? Why to hide from which House was she originally? And why the Reed-kids never ever mentioned their mother? When (or if) later it will be revealed that she is indeed Ashara Dayne, this reveal won't be out of the blue, because there were hints about this possibility in the books. For example - Jyana - Lyanna. Probably Ashara had chosen this as her new name in memory of Lyanna Stark, who was her friend, and just recently died after giving birth to Jon Snow.

Also just because in Appendix Jyana isn't listed as dead in {...}, doesn't mean that she is alive. Because in Appendixes are writen not facts. For example: AGOT - "EDDARD STARK, Lord of Winterfell, Warden of the North, ... —his bastard son, JON SNOW, a boy of fourteen", "KING ROBERT BARATHEON, the First of His Name, —his wife, QUEEN CERSEI, of House Lannister, —their children: —PRINCE JOFFREY, heir to the Iron Throne, twelve, —PRINCESS MYRCELLA, a girl of eight, —PRINCE TOMMEN, a boy of seven". Jon is not Ned's son, and Cersei's children are not Robert's, despite those things being written in appendixes.

In ADWD the Mountain is listed as dead - " {SER GREGOR CLEGANE}, called THE MOUNTAIN THAT RIDES, dead of a poisoned wound", though then - who is Robert Strong?

And I had this impression that Howland's wife is dead, because the children never mentioned her, and because of this - "When Jojen told our lord father what he’d dreamed, he sent us to Winterfell." - told to their father, not to their parents, and their father sent them, no mentioning about what the mother thought about those green dreams. So maybe that's because the mother isn't there. Maybe dead.

[Megorova]

23 hours ago, Willam Stark said:

we only know that Bloodraven is both a skinchanger and greenseer

Actually we don't know whether he's a skinchanger. I think (more like I'm sure) that he isn't. Just because he was saying to Bran all those things about skinchanging and was giving him instructions, doesn't mean that he himself has skinchanging ability.

In my opinion, if he was able to skinchange into birds, while he was serving as the King's Hand and the Master of Whisperers, then there would have been no need for him to personally go to Whitewalls in "The Mystery Knight" novel. And because he did went himself, instead of sending there a bird, it seems that he was not and is not a skinchanger. It is just something that is assumed by the readers, same as it is just assumed that Bloodraven is the Three-Eyed Crow. Though the 3EC is actually Shiera Seastar, and amongst their siblings it was Shiera who was/is a skinchanger. She skinchanged into that shadow-cat that attacked Mance Rayder, then by using shadow-glamour she impersonated a wildling healer who treated Mance after his attack. The red silk that she gave to Mance, originally belonged to her grandmother - Johanna Swann. Johanna was a cat-skinchanger, she skinchanged into the shadow-cat that killed this guy - "Matteno Orthys, a fervent worshipper of the goddess Pantera, was mauled and partly devoured by his prized shadowcat when its cage was unaccountably left open one night." - last chapter of F&B. Johanna was a cat-skinchanger, her daughter - Larra Rogare/Serenei of Lys, was a cat-skinchanger, her granddaughter & great-granddaughter - Shiera Seastar/Quaithe/3EC is a cat-skinchanger, her 6-times-great-granddaughter - Arya Stark, is a cat-skinchanger.

The children are born with the skinchanging abilities, in case if both of their parents were carriers of one strain of the skinchanging genes, or in case if one of the parents is a skinchanger (though only in case with the females, passed from mother to daughter), how it was with Johanna Swann and her daughter - Larra Rogare, and Larra Rogare/Serenei of Lys and her daughter - Shiera Seastar. Like here:

2 - skinchanger, 1 - recessive carrier.

2 johanna swann

2 larra rogare/serenei

1 aegon IV | 2 shiera

1 mya rivers | 1 jeyne lothston | 1 viserys plumm | 1 daenerys | 1 balerion otherys

1 melantha blackwood, 1 betha blackwood | 2 the bastard of harrenhal - grandfather of minisa whent | 1 viserys plumm's daughter (married with a dothraki khal) | 1 daenerys' son | balerion's daughter + 2 the bastard of harrenhal

1 edwyle stark | 1 jaehaerys and shaera (only one of them was a carrier) | 1 father of minisa whent | 1 viserys plumm's grandson (a dothraki) | 1 daenerys' granddaughter (mother of elia) | 1 petyr baelish's great-grandfather - the sellsword from braavos

1 rickard stark | 1 aerys and rhaella (only one of them was a carrier) | 1 minisa whent | 1 viserys plumm's great-grandson (khal bharbo - drogo's father) | 1 elia | 1 petyr's grandfather

1 ned, 1 lyanna | 1 rhaegar, 1 dany | 1 catelyn tully, 1 lysa | 1 khal drogo | 1 petyr's father

1 petyr baelish | 1 lysa tully

1+1=2 -> robb, sansa, arya, bran, rickon; jon; rhaego; princess rhaenys (daughter of rhaegar and elia); robert arryn; the bastard of harrenhal (he was skinchanging into bats, using them set up danelle lothston, took harrenhal from her, and founded house whent, he was shella and minisa whent's grandfather, and also a great-great-grandfather of petyr baelish.

The Blackwoods are not the carriers of the skinchanging genes, so out of Bloodraven's parents, only his father had those genes, and because he had only one strain, maybe he passed it to Brynden, and maybe he didn't. But in either case one strain is not enough to make someone a skinchanger, so Bloodraven is not a skinchanger.

[Corvo the Crow]

1 hour ago, Megorova said:

Whether she's alive or dead, her children are and always were aware that she is Ashara Dayne, because of how they were telling to Bran the story about what happened at Harrenhal, how Howland all evening was watching with whom Ashara danced, because he liked her. The people at the Neck probably know who Jyana really is, or maybe they don't know, because it's not like they were part of the Targaryen court and had many opportunities to see Ashara Dayne, prior to her supposed death and disappearance. So if she is alive now, she does have violet-colored eyes, and the people that live at the Neck don't make it a news-story that the wife of their Lord has violet eyes.

You asked about Jyana whether she's a secret Stark or Blackwood, and it makes perfect sense if she is Ashara Dayne. They met at Harrenhal (which is a fact), then probably got involved because of Lyanna, and then Rhaegar brought Lyanna to Starfall, so that's probably when and how  Howland and Ashara got together. After the events at the Tower of Joy, Ashara left her family and they said to people that she died, while actually she went with Howland and newborn Meera to the Neck. It's just that if Jyana was a Stark or a Blackwood, then what's the point for GRRM not to just write in the Appendix that she is Jyana of House Stark or House Blackwood. Why to hide this information? Why to hide from which House was she originally? And why the Reed-kids never ever mentioned their mother? When (or if) later it will be revealed that she is indeed Ashara Dayne, this reveal won't be out of the blue, because there were hints about this possibility in the books. For example - Jyana - Lyanna. Probably Ashara had chosen this as her new name in memory of Lyanna Stark, who was her friend, and just recently died after giving birth to Jon Snow.

Also just because in Appendix Jyana isn't listed as dead in {...}, doesn't mean that she is alive. Because in Appendixes are writen not facts. For example: AGOT - "EDDARD STARK, Lord of Winterfell, Warden of the North, ... —his bastard son, JON SNOW, a boy of fourteen", "KING ROBERT BARATHEON, the First of His Name, —his wife, QUEEN CERSEI, of House Lannister, —their children: —PRINCE JOFFREY, heir to the Iron Throne, twelve, —PRINCESS MYRCELLA, a girl of eight, —PRINCE TOMMEN, a boy of seven". Jon is not Ned's son, and Cersei's children are not Robert's, despite those things being written in appendixes.

In ADWD the Mountain is listed as dead - " {SER GREGOR CLEGANE}, called THE MOUNTAIN THAT RIDES, dead of a poisoned wound", though then - who is Robert Strong?

And I had this impression that Howland's wife is dead, because the children never mentioned her, and because of this - "When Jojen told our lord father what he’d dreamed, he sent us to Winterfell." - told to their father, not to their parents, and their father sent them, no mentioning about what the mother thought about those green dreams. So maybe that's because the mother isn't there. Maybe dead.

 

Mountain is listed as dead because he is dead. He may very well be Robert Strong, he may even be alive but to our knowledge as the reader or someone in universe, the Mountain died. 

As for Meera's story, if the story is a "How I met your mother, a story by Ted Mosby Howland REED " Why was Jojen so surprised when he learned that Brandon has never learned of it? Did he think "How come Bran Stark, the boy who didn't even know that I existed up until a few months ago, has never heard of the story how my father met my mother? How is it even possible!" What kind of thought process is it? If anything, If him expecting Bran to know the story is somehow related to Ashara would be not because Jyana, who is very much alive and kicking, or swimming, or doing whatever a Crannogmen alive would do, is Ashara and that's how Howland met her, but because Ned had an affair with Ashara.

Quote

"There was one knight," said Meera, "in the year of the false spring. The Knight of the Laughing Tree, they called him. He might have been a crannogman, that one."

"Or not, " Jojen's face was dappled with green snadows. "prince Bran has heard that tale a hundred times, I'm sure."

"No," said Bran. "I haven't. And if I have it doesn't matter. Sometimes Old Nan would tell the same story she'd told before, but we never minded, if it was a good story. Old stories are like old friends, she used to say. You have to visit them from time to time."

"That's true." Meera walked with her shield on her back, pushing an occasional branch out of the way with her frog spear. Just when Bran began to think she wasn't going to tell the story after all, she began, "Once there was a curious lad who lived in the Neck. He was small like all crannogmen, but b rave and smart and strong as well. He grew up hunting and fishing and climbing trees, and learned all the magics of my people."

Bran was almost certain he had never heard this story. "Did he have green dreams like Jojen?"

"No," said Meera, "but he could breathe mud and run on leaves, and change earth to water and water to earth with no more than a whispered word. He could talk to trees and weave words and make castles appear and disappear."

"I wish I could," Bran said plaintively. "When does he meet the tree knight?"

Meera made a face at him. "Sooner if a certain prince would be quiet."

"I was just asking."

"The lad knew the magics of the crannogs," she continued, "but he wanted more. Our people seldom travel far from home you know. We're a small folk, and our ways seem queer to some, so the big people do not always treat us kingly. But this lad was bolder than most, and one day when he had grown to manhood he decided he would leave the crannogs and visit the Isle of Faces."

"No one visits the Isle of Faces." objecxted Bran. "That's where the green men live."

"It was the green men he meant to find. So he donned a shirt sewn with bronze scales, like mine, took up a leathern shield and a three-pronged spear, like mine, and paddled a little skin boat down the Green Fork."

Bran closed his eyes to try and see the man in his little skin boat. In his head, the crannogman looked like Jojen, only older and stronger, and dressed like Meera.

"He passed beneath the Twins by night so the Freys would not attack him, and when he reached the Trident he climbed from the river and put his boat on his head and began to walk. It took him many a day, but finally he reached the Gods Eye, threw his boat in the lake, and paddled out to the Isle of Faces."

"Did he meet the green men?"

"Yes," said Meera, "But that's another story, and not for me to tell. My prince asked for knights."

"Green men are good too."

"They are," she agreed, but said no more about them. "All that winter the crannogman stayed on the isle, but when spring broke he heard the wide world calling and knew the time had come to leave. His skin boat was just where he'd left it, so he said his farewells and paddled off toward shore. He rowed and rowed, and finally saw the distant towers of a castle rising beside the lake. The towers reached ever higher as he neared shore, until he realized this must be the greatest castle in all the world."

"Harrenhal!" Bran knew at once. "It was Harrenhal!"

Meera smiled. "Was it? Beneath it's walls he saw tents of many colors, bright banners cracking in the wind, and knights in mail and plate on barded horses. He smelled roasting meats, and heard the sound of laughter and the blare of heralds' trumpets. A great tourney was about to commence, and champions from all over the land had come to contest it. The king himself was there, with his son the dragon prince. The White Swords had come, to welcome a new brother to their ranks. The storm lord was on hand, and the rose lord as well. The great lion of the rock had quarreled with the king and stayed away, but many of his bannermen and knights attended all the same. The crannogman had never seen such pageantry, and knew he might never see the like again. Part of him wanted nothing so much as to be part of it."

Bran knew that feeling well enough. When he'd been little, all he had ever dreamed of was being a knight. But that had been before he fell and lost his legs.

"The daughter of the great castle reigned as queen of love and beauty when the tourney opened. Five champions had sworn to defend her crown; her four brothers of Harrenhal, and her famous uncle, a white knight of the Kingsguard."

"Was she a fair maid?"

"She was," said Meera, hopping over a stone, "but there were others fairer still. One was the wife of the dragon prince, who'd brought a dozen lady companions to attend her. The knights all begged them for favors to tie about their lances."

"This isn't going to be one of those love stories, is it?" Bran asked suspiciously. "Hodor doesn't like those so much."

"Hodor," said Hodor agreeably.

"He likes the stories where the knights fight monsters."

"Sometimes the knights are the monsters, Bran. The little crannogman was walking across the field, enjoying the warm spring day and harming none, when he was set upon by three squires. They were none older than fifteen, yet even so they were bigger than him , all three. This was their world, as the saw it, and he had no right to be there. They snarched away his spear and knicked him to the ground, cursing him for a frogeater."

"Were they Walders?" It sounded like something Little Walder Frey might have done.

"None offered a name, but he marked their faces well so he could revenge himself upon them later. They shoved him down every time he tried to rise, and kicked him when he curled up on the ground. But then they heard a roar. 'That's my father's man you're kicking,' howled the she-wolf."

"A wolf on four legs, or two?"

"Two," said Meera. "The she-wolf laid into the squires with a tourney sword, scattering them all. The crannogman was bruised and bloodied, so she took him back to her lair to clean his cuts and bind them up with linen. There he met her pack brothers: the wild wolf who led them, the quiet wolf beside him, and the pup who was youngest of the four.

"That evening there was to be a feast in Harrenhal, to mark the opening of the tourney, and the she-wolf insisted that the lad attend. He was of high birth, with as much a right to a place on the bench as any other man. She was not easy to refuse, this wolf maid, so he let the young pup find him garb suitable to a king's feast, and went up to the great castle.

"Under Harren's roof he ate and drank with the wolves, and many of their s worn swords besides, barrowdown men and moose and bears and mermen. The dragon prince sang a song so sad it made the wolf maid sniffle, but when her pup brother teased her for crying she poured wine over his head. A black brother spoke, asking the knights to join the Night's Watch. The storm lord drank down the knight of skulls and kisses in a wine-cup war. The crannogman saw a maid with laughing purple eyes dance with a white sword, a red snake, and the lord of griffins, and lastly with the quiet wolf...but only after the wild wolf spoke to her on behalf of a brother too shy to leave his bench.

"Amidst all this merriment, the little crannogman spied the three squires who'd attacked him. One served a pitchfork knight, one a porcupine, while the last attended a knight with two towers on his surcoat, a sigil all crannogmen know well."

The Freys," said Bran. "The Freys of the Crossing."

"Then, as now," she agreed. "The wolf maid saw them too, and pointed them out to her brothers. 'I could find you a horse, and some armor that might fit,' the pup offered. The little crannogman thanked him, but gave no answer. His heart was torn. Crannogmen are smaller than must, but just as proud. The lad was no knight, no more than any of his people. We sit a boat more offtent then a horse, and our hands are made for oars, not lances. Much as he wished to have his vengeance, he freared he would only make a fool of himself and shame his people. The quiet wolf had offered the little crannogman a place in his tent that night, but before he slept he knelt on the lakeshore, looking across the water to where the Isle of Faces would be. and said a prayer to the old gods of north and Neck..."

"You never heard this tale from your father?" asked Jojen.

"It was Old Nan who told the stories. Meera, go on, you can't stop there."

Hodor must have felt the same. "Hodor," he said, and then, "Hodor hodor hodor hodor."

"Well," said Meera, "if you would hear the rest..."

"Yes, Tell it."

"Five days of jousting were planned," she said. "There was a great seven-sided melee as well, and archery and axe-throwing, a horse race, and tourney of singers..."

"Never mind about all that." Bran squirmed impatiently in his basket on Hodor's back. "Tell about the jousting."

"As my prince commands. The daughter of the castle was queen of love and beauty, with four brothers and an uncle to defend her, but all four sons of Harrenhal were defeated on the first day. Their conquerors reigned briefly as champions, until they were vanquished in turn. As it happened the end of the first day saw the porcupine knight win a place among the champions, and on the morning of the second day the pitchfork knight and the knight of the two towers were victorious as well. But late on the afternoon of that second day, as the shadows grew long, a mystery knight appeared in the lists."

Bran nodded sagely. Mystery knights would oft appear at tourneys, with helms concealing their faces, and shields that were either blank or bore some strange device. Sometimes they were famous champions in disguise, the Dragonknight once won a t ourney as the Knight of Tears, so he could name his sister the queen of love and beauty in place of the king's mistress. And Barristan the Bold twice donned a mystery knight's armor, the first time when he was only ten. "It was the little crannogman, I bet."

"No one knew," said Meera, "but the mystery knight was short of stature, and clad in ill-fitting armor made up of bits and pieces. The device upon his shield was a heart tree of the old gods, a white weirwood with a laughing red face."

"Maybe he came from the Isle of Faces," said Bran. "Was he green?" In Old Nan's stories the guardians had dark green skin and leaves instead of hair. Sometimes they had antlers too, but Bran didn't see how the mystery knight could have worn a helm if he had antlers. "I bet the old gods sent him."

"Perhaps they did. The mystery knight dipped his lance before the king and rode to the end of the lists, where the five champions had their pavilions. You know the three he challenged."

"The porcupine knight, the pitchfork knight, and the knight of the twin towers." Bran had heard enough stories to know that. "He was the little crannogman, I told you."

"Whoever he was, the old gods gave strength to his arm. The porcupine knight fell first, then the pitchfork knight, and lastly the knight of the two towers. None were well loved, so the common folk cheered lustily for the Knight of the Laughing Tree, as the new champion soon was called. When his fallen foes sought to ransom horse and armor, the Knight of the Laughing Tree spoke in a booming voice through his helm, saying, 'Teach your squires honor, that shall be ransom enough.' Once the defeated knights chastised their squires sharply, their horses and armour were returned. And so the little crannogman's prayer was answered...by the green men, or the old gods, or the children of the forest, who can say?"

It was a good story, Bran decided after thinking about it a moment or two. "Then what happened, Did the Knight of the Laughing Tree win the tourney and marry a princess?"

"No," said Meera. "That night at the great castle, the storm lord and the knight of skulls and kisses each sword they would unmask him, and the king himself urged men to challenge him,, declaring that the face behind that helm was no friend of his. But the next morning, when the heralds blew their trumpets and the king took his seat, only two champions appeared. The Knight of the Laughing Tree had vanished. The king was wroth, and even sent his son the dragon prince to seek the man, but all they ever found was his painted shield, hanging abandoned in a tree. It was the dragon prince who won that tourney in the end."

"Oh." Bran thought about the tale awhile. "That was a good story. Bit it should have been the three bad knights who hurt him, not their squires. Then the little crannogman could have killed them all. The part about the ransoms was stupid. And the Mystery knight should win the tourney, defeating every challenger, and name the wolf maid the queen of love and beauty."

"She was," Said Meera, "but that's a sadder story."

"Are you certain you never heard this tale before Bran?" asked Jojen. "Your lord father never told it to you?"

Bran shook his head. The daw was growing old by then and long shadows were creeping down the mountainsides to send black fingers through the pines. If the little crannogman could visit the Isle of Faces, maybe I could too. All the tales agreed that the green men had strange magic powers. Maybe they could help him walk again, even turn him into a knight. They turned the little crannogman into a knight, even if it was only for a day, he thought. A day wold be enough.

 

Jojen expects Bran to know the story because the story is about Bran's family and not in the very least about when Howland met Jyana. What next? Will you propose that Howland has noticed Robert drinking because he envied how big and burly and manly he was? Or perhaps he had a guy crush on him?

 

Do you remember of a similar conversation that someone expected that a Stark kid to know the story?

Quote

 

"My father was Ser Arthur's elder brother. Lady Ashara was my aunt. I never knew her, though. She threw herself into the sea from atop the Palestone Sword before I was born."

"Why would she do that?" said Arya, startled.

Ned looked wary. Maybe he was afraid that she was going to throw something at him. "Your lord father never spoke of her?" he said. "The Lady Ashara Dayne, of Starfall?"

"No. Did he know her?"

"Before Robert was king. She met your father and his brothers at Harrenhal, during the year of the false spring."

"Oh." Arya did not know what else to say. "Why did she jump in the sea, though?"

"Her heart was broken."

Sansa would have sighed and shed a tear for true love, but Arya just thought it was stupid. She couldn't say that to Ned, though, not about his own aunt. "Did someone break it?"

He hesitated. "Perhaps it's not my place . . ."

He looked at her uncomfortably. "My aunt Allyria says Lady Ashara and your father fell in love at Harrenhal—"

 

 

Now that story is a reason that he'd expect her to know. And what even is the reason to hide that Ashara is alive? If she and Howland fell in love, they could have just married and be done with it, no reason what so ever to hide the fact that she is alive and married to Howland. Did they fear that old Barristan was out to get Howland because he had a crush on Ashara? 

 

That's waaay too much fanfic you've got going on there  unhealthy amounts of it, if I may say.

 

[Megorova]

35 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said:

And what even is the reason to hide that Ashara is alive?

The reason is connected to whatever has happened at the Tower of Joy.

What GRRM planned for that story is way more complicated than just Jon's birth and Lyanna's death, and the confrontation between the Kingsguards and the Northmen. I'm not even sure that Lyanna was then at the Tower. I think that she died at Starfall, before Ned's confrontation with the Kingsguards. I think that Arthur Dayne and Ned's companions were killed by Gerold Hightower and Oswell Whent. Because those two actually were Faceless Men, they killed the real Gerold and Oswell and took their faces, years prior to Robert's Rebellion. There were Faceless Men in every set of the Kingsguard, and over the past 300 years they killed 100+ Targaryens, Velaryons, Baratheons and their dragonseed-relatives, including Arthur Dayne (who was Rhaegar's distant cousin, and a descendant of one of the six daughters of Rhaena Targaryen and Garmund Hightower). Gerold and Oswell were intending to steal Jon (because he is the Prince that was Promised, and they were waiting for his birth for centuries) and Dawn-sword (because it's Azor Ahai's Lightbringer. The founder of House Dayne was a son of Azor and his fourth wife - Nissa Nissa), and to bring them to Braavos.

Jyana/Ashara is in hiding because the Faceless Men want the sword. Or something like that.

And Ned didn't had an affair with Ashara. She was dishonored at Harrenhal because someone saw her late at night going into Ned's tent. And she went there not to hook up with Ned, but to warn Howland that he should get rid of the shield. Rhaegar figured out that the Knight of the Laughing Tree was Lyanna Stark. So when late on that evening he heard that his father had commanded to unmask the Knight, he wanted to warn Lyanna. And because it was very late, and it wouldn't have been appropriate for him to approach a young girl at this time of night, he sent Ashara, to whom he trusted, because she was not only his wife's lady-in-waiting, but also because she was his cousin, and a sister of his close friend. Ashara went to Lyanna, and Lyanna told her that she has already returned the shield to Howland. She left it in Ned's tent, where Howland was staying during that tournament. So Ashara decided to go into Ned's tent, and that's what Barristan meant when he thought that if only she turned to him instead of turning to the Stark (turning for help). Ashara went to get the shield, and that's when she was seen. Then she gave the shield to her brother, who hid it in the tree trunk, which made people to think that the Knight went into the woods. And afterwards, when there appeared rumors that Ashara was seen in the middle of the night going into Ned Stark's tent, and it was assumed by the people that she had an affair with Ned, she couldn't have disproved those assumptions, because she couldn't have said that - No, I didn't went there to "roll in the hay" with Ned Stark. I went there to get rid of the Knight of the Laughing Tree's shield, which Lyanna Stark left there, after she was done with impersonating a knight. It was Prince Rhaegar who sent me to do this.

If she revealed the truth, then Aerys would have got the prove that Rhaegar is conspiring against him. And Aerys at that time had one of his bouts of madness, because one of his Kingsguards (Gerold Hightower), who was a Faceless Man, toxicated Aerys with basilisk blood. The same thing the Faceless Men were doing to Dany's brother Viserys (Doreah was an FM), to Aerion Brightflame, Maegor the Cruel, and several other dragonseeds that supposedly were mad, but actually were regularly poisoned with psychotropic substances. So Aerys at that time was unstable and unreasonable, and if he found out that Rhaegar did something behind his back, that would have been enough for him to execute all of them - Rhaegar and his co-conspirators - Ashara, Arthur, Lyanna, Howland. So Ashara had to stay quiet and "took one for the team" (to do or experience something unpleasant, or accept blame or punishment for something, so that other members of a group do not have to).

Howland Reed was a weakling, unable to defend himself. Lyanna Stark for his sake impersonated a knight, and fought in that tournament. Because of this, as the Knight of the Laughing Tree, she became King Aerys' target. Then, also because of Howland, Ashara's reputation was ruined. So because he felt guilty, and because between Lyanna and Ashara in result of what happened, formed complicated relationship, Ned and Ashara became close. They fell in love in the span of the time between Harrenhal's tournament and the end of 282 AC. Possibly when Lyanna was "kidnapped" by Rhaegar not 10 leagues away from Harrenhal, afterwards she and Rhaegar, Ashara and Arthur, Oswell, Howland, maester Marwyn (Rhaegar's confidant, who assisted Elia during the birth of Prince Aegon, and later also assisted Queen Rhaella with Dany's birth, and Dany with Rhaego's birth), and Shiera Seastar (she was shadow-glamoured as a septa, same as she was during Barristan Selmy's confrontation with the Kingswood Brotherwood, when he saved Lady Jeyne Swann (now Septa Lemore - fAegon's mother. The father is Barristan) and her unnamed septa), went to the Isle of Faces, and held there a double wedding ceremony - R+L and A+H. So Meera, who is a bit older than Jon, is Ashara's daughter about whom Barristan thought that supposedly she died and then Ashara commited suicide, which is bullshit.

1 hour ago, Corvo the Crow said:

That's waaay too much fanfic you've got going on there  unhealthy amounts of it, if I may say.

You're free to have your own opinion.

[Corvo the Crow]

43 minutes ago, Megorova said:

What GRRM planned for that story is way more complicated than just Jon's birth and Lyanna's death, and the confrontation between the Kingsguards and the Northmen. I'm not even sure that Lyanna was then at the Tower. I think that she died at Starfall, before Ned's confrontation with the Kingsguards. I think that Arthur Dayne and Ned's companions were killed by Gerold Hightower and Oswell Whent. Because those two actually were Faceless Men, they killed the real Gerold and Oswell and took their faces, years prior to Robert's Rebellion. There were Faceless Men in every set of the Kingsguard, and over the past 300 years they killed 100+ Targaryens, Velaryons, Baratheons and their dragonseed-relatives, including Arthur Dayne (who was Rhaegar's distant cousin, and a descendant of one of the six daughters of Rhaena Targaryen and Garmund Hightower). Gerold and Oswell were intending to steal Jon (because he is the Prince that was Promised, and they were waiting for his birth for centuries) and Dawn-sword (because it's Azor Ahai's Lightbringer. The founder of House Dayne was a son of Azor and his fourth wife - Nissa Nissa), and to bring them to Braavos.

Please tell me you are just having fun with me. Where do you even get these baseless ideas?  It's not even fanfic because many of the thing you wrote have evidence against them.

[Jaenara Belarys]

3 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said:

Please tell me you are just having fun with me. Where do you even get these baseless ideas?  It's not even fanfic because many of the thing you wrote have evidence against them.

Those are the Swan Song and Iron Shell thread ideas, FYI. So, no. She's not joking, I assure you. 

[Corvo the Crow]

12 minutes ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

Those are the Swan Song and Iron Shell thread ideas, FYI. So, no. She's not joking, I assure you. 

How come people come with ideas such as say Arthur and Rhaegar are related when GRRM himself has basically said no connection?

Wayback Machine (archive.org)

 

Edit: The way you said it, I thought these threads belonged to other people but checking, I've seen they are both hers.