Black Crow Posted February 8, 2022 Author Share Posted February 8, 2022 18 minutes ago, LynnS said: Possible explanations? Is there some magic in the ringwall preventing Ghost from entering? Othor and Jafr couldn't go through the Wall but could be taken through in their inactive state during the day. Or was Ghost being willfull? Some kind of warding would explain why Ghost refused to enter with Jon, but not why he entered later. Hence the suggestion of a connection to the cache - and whoever left it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melifeather Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 So Ghost refused to enter the ring fort until they had discovered the cache and then he went in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Crow Posted February 8, 2022 Author Share Posted February 8, 2022 No, Ghost absolutely refused to go in and then ran off. Later, Jon was surprised to find him sitting by a camp fire inside the fort. Then Ghost led him to the cache [outside the fort] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alienarea Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 2 hours ago, Black Crow said: Some kind of warding would explain why Ghost refused to enter with Jon, but not why he entered later. Hence the suggestion of a connection to the cache - and whoever left it I wouldn't exclude Bran being involved in some way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melifeather Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 27 minutes ago, Black Crow said: No, Ghost absolutely refused to go in and then ran off. Later, Jon was surprised to find him sitting by a camp fire inside the fort. Then Ghost led him to the cache [outside the fort] Sounds like Lassie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvo the Crow Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 On 2/7/2022 at 5:25 PM, Melifeather said: It doesn't matter when Mance got Dalla pregnant, but I do think its important when he was introduced to magic. I think his encounter with the wood's witch's daughter was a significant event. He learned something that day. And as soon as he defected he began his campaign to unite the wildlings. Both Dalla and Val give off wood's witch or priestess vibes. Mance didn't come up with his idea to rally the wildings on his own. He was inspired. Something to add about the woods witch Also below is the thread that @Frey family reunion mentioned if you're interested in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melifeather Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 15 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said: Something to add about the woods witch Also below is the thread that @Frey family reunion mentioned if you're interested in Thanks for sharing. What are your thoughts about the woods witch's daughter? Do you think she was Dalla? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frey family reunion Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 33 minutes ago, Melifeather said: Thanks for sharing. What are your thoughts about the woods witch's daughter? Do you think she was Dalla? I think it kind of depends on our earlier conversation. When did Mance meet up with Dalla and where? If indeed, it was back from his first trip from Winterfell, then he probably first met her somewhere in Westeros. If so I don’t think her mother was the wood’s witch. My guess is he would have met her in the Mountain Clans, which may be where the House Flint connection occurs. It’s also possible that Val and Dalla are “sisters” like the Night’s Watch members are “brothers”. In other words, Val and Dalla may be in the some coven. Perhaps Val is the wood’s witch’s daughter and Mance was the one who brought Val and Dalla together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frey family reunion Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 It is interesting that we know next to nothing about Lyanna's mother, other than her mother was a member of Clan Flint. I think that there is going to be some type of reveal there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvo the Crow Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 1 hour ago, Melifeather said: Thanks for sharing. What are your thoughts about the woods witch's daughter? Do you think she was Dalla? No because among other reasons, that story seems to have happened several years ago raising questions as to why they don't already have children. The pregnancy calculations I've seen here are a futile attempt I must say because GRRM is notoriously bad when it comes to numbers: Military and population numbers, currency, travel times, measurements(such as the wall, there was a story about him being shown what 800 feet measured to and he thought he didn't Imagine it would be that high) I always took it that "on his return" was the second trip, the one as a bard and not as a watchman as the first would indicate that Dalla is a Northman, as Mance would be returning to the Wall, whereas the return from the second trip allows her to be the Freefolk woman she is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melifeather Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 25 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said: No because among other reasons, that story seems to have happened several years ago raising questions as to why they don't already have children. The pregnancy calculations I've seen here are a futile attempt I must say because GRRM is notoriously bad when it comes to numbers: Military and population numbers, currency, travel times, measurements(such as the wall, there was a story about him being shown what 800 feet measured to and he thought he didn't Imagine it would be that high) I always took it that "on his return" was the second trip, the one as a bard and not as a watchman as the first would indicate that Dalla is a Northman, as Mance would be returning to the Wall, whereas the return from the second trip allows her to be the Freefolk woman she is. Why would there need to be earlier pregnancies in order to prove a relationship? I guess that would simplify things, but it’s not confirmation. On the other hand, thinking back on the Nights King giving the Other his seed (child), was caught later sacrificing to the Others, and Val dubbing Gilly’s child “Monster”...how do we not know if they’ve had other children before and were sacrificed? Melisandre said shadows created from kings blood are the most powerful. If Melisandre can birth shadowbabies then Dalla can birth icebabies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alienarea Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 2 hours ago, Melifeather said: Why would there need to be earlier pregnancies in order to prove a relationship? I guess that would simplify things, but it’s not confirmation. On the other hand, thinking back on the Nights King giving the Other his seed (child), was caught later sacrificing to the Others, and Val dubbing Gilly’s child “Monster”...how do we not know if they’ve had other children before and were sacrificed? Melisandre said shadows created from kings blood are the most powerful. If Melisandre can birth shadowbabies then Dalla can birth icebabies. Is Dalla dying in childbirth mirroring Lyanna? There are some Mance - Rhaegar paralells as well. Jon was swapped for Ned's son with Ashara? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melifeather Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 25 minutes ago, alienarea said: Is Dalla dying in childbirth mirroring Lyanna? There are some Mance - Rhaegar paralells as well. Jon was swapped for Ned's son with Ashara? I had put together an inverted parallel comparison for Ned Stark and Sam Tarly when I was exploring the merits of Jon Snow being the product of Stark-incest - aka Starkcest. Here it is again, but I have changed a couple things... Lord Commander Jon Snow Former LC Brynden "Bloodraven" Rivers North of the Wall South in Kings Landing Mance Raydar - King Beyond the Wall Rhaegar Targaryen - the presumed heir to Kings Landing Craster - Monster's true father Rickard - not the father Gilly (Craster's daughter) Wylla (not Rickard's daughter) Mance’s son Rhaegar’s son Gilly’s son - not a bastard - yet a child of incest Wylla’s (Ashara) son - not a child of incest, yet he is a bastard Samwell Tarly - not the father Ned Stark - is the true father Sam takes Mance's child to his father's home - safe away from the Wall Ned takes his own child to his father's home while Rhaegar's child got left in Kings Landing LC Jon Snow swapped Gilly’s son to protect Mance’s son. Former LC Bloodraven did nothing, allowing Wylla’s son to survive, and left Rhaegar’s son at risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LynnS Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 On 2/8/2022 at 4:22 PM, Melifeather said: I had put together an inverted parallel comparison for Ned Stark and Sam Tarly when I was exploring the merits of Jon Snow being the product of Stark-incest - aka Starkcest. Here it is again, but I have changed a couple things... I still don't get it. LOL! You will have to explain this to me the next book comes out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melifeather Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 1 hour ago, LynnS said: I still don't get it. LOL! You will have to explain this to me the next book comes out. Initially the way I had it set out showed a way Ned and Lyanna were Jon's parents, but if this is a true inversion then the parallels would be opposites of each other. The parallels do exist. There are people that mirror each other, but just like in a mirror the reflection is backwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alienarea Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 4 hours ago, Melifeather said: Initially the way I had it set out showed a way Ned and Lyanna were Jon's parents, but if this is a true inversion then the parallels would be opposites of each other. The parallels do exist. There are people that mirror each other, but just like in a mirror the reflection is backwards. Of course, like with everything else in ASoIaF, you have to apply the Heisenberg uncertainty principle as is suggested by GRRMs odd measurements for time and distances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melifeather Posted February 11, 2022 Share Posted February 11, 2022 We could explore white walkers and ice shadows in the next installment. We've explored Craster as a source before...and I've suggested wildling sacrificing themselves before...I could describe my thoughts about it for the uninitiated....but we could also explore the idea that Mance and Dalla gave birth to ice babies...although Mance doesn't seem depleted like Stannis. But then again, we're dealing with dualities in our story. Maybe shadow babies deplete humans some how, but ice babies don't? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alienarea Posted February 12, 2022 Share Posted February 12, 2022 22 hours ago, Melifeather said: We could explore white walkers and ice shadows in the next installment. We've explored Craster as a source before...and I've suggested wildling sacrificing themselves before...I could describe my thoughts about it for the uninitiated....but we could also explore the idea that Mance and Dalla gave birth to ice babies...although Mance doesn't seem depleted like Stannis. But then again, we're dealing with dualities in our story. Maybe shadow babies deplete humans some how, but ice babies don't? Maybe the White Walkers - Starks (genetic?) connection if there is one? My rough outline is this: - if a dead Stark isn't beheaded or burned or warded in the crypts he will rise [but how is this connected to the ironborn's what is dead may never die?] - only male Starks can have children with Other women (Night's King, Craster (?), Mance Rayder (???)) - Winter is coming is not a warning. Without a Stark in Winterfell there's the snowstorm originating from Winterfell, and the unwarded Starks are up to no good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Crow Posted February 13, 2022 Author Share Posted February 13, 2022 Certainly a good theme for Heresy 242 - do you want to draft an OP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alienarea Posted February 13, 2022 Share Posted February 13, 2022 1 hour ago, Black Crow said: Certainly a good theme for Heresy 242 - do you want to draft an OP Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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