What if Viserys and Daenerys were captured at Dragonstone?

[EggBlue]

1 hour ago, James West said:

Stannis is not the honorable man that you think he is.  He's no better than Roose Bolton.  I think a lot of the Stark supporters like Stannis because he is a friend to the Starks.  Look closer and Stannis is a monster.  

he prayed(cursed?) for the usurper Robb Stark's downfall. he didn't do anything to help Ned nor gave him a heads up  before he went to Kingslanding while he knew about the twincest . the only Stark he has interacted with is Jon whom he threatened to kill a few times.  how is he a friend of the Starks? 

by the way if you look that closely , everybody could be counted as a monster in ASOIAF.. including even our sweet AzorAhai ! she had an innocent girl tortured to get her dad reveal the information he might not even had! so , tell me now.. is Danny a monster?

[SeanF]

18 hours ago, Lord Lannister said:

Viserys was what? Six? Eight? When all this happened. That seems a bit much, even for the Night's Watch.

Though Aemon's influence on the young Viserys might be a very interesting scenario. 

I expect Viserys would not have survived very long at the Wall.  Everyone would know he could be abused and tormented with tacit approval from Kings Landing.

[SeanF]

18 hours ago, Lord Lannister said:

 

There definitely seems to be a lack of faith in Robert. Perhaps not undeserved. He had no problem ordering the execution of a pregnant Dany after all! 

 

I half considered that Ned would just take the minimalist approach. Send some men to satisfy his duty, but not go himself. I suppose sending men to fight and die while he remains behind wouldn't be his style though. 

Do you think Robert and Ned could rekindle their friendship if they reunited in this scenario?

There definitely wouldn't be a rival Targaryen claimant to rally behind short of (f)Aegon when he appears. But Robert literally opened the door to usurping the throne. So who knows if that'd even matter? It might be interesting to consider if his unpopularity timed with the Ironborn rebellion in this scenario would result in a wider uprising. 

A lot depends on who (f)Aegon really is. I always assumed they knew his lineage would be questioned and that's why they put him on the back burner once Viserys and Dany fell into their grasp, and only went with him again once Viserys died and Dany stalled in Slaver's Bay.

I always assumed the eggs were given for symbolic value. So it's possible (f)Aegon would get them in this scenario. Look here's a Targaryen, he has eggs and everything.

I suppose what I was getting at with that question is would Ned possibly tell Jon the truth in this scenario and let Jon make his own choices there. 

I do appreciate the irony of citing moral reasons as justification as to why someone deserves to be torn to pieces and eaten.

Stannis would seem to be in a lose/lose situation here. Robert gives him a vague command like get the job done. If Stannis kills them, then he puts the blame for the murders on his brother. If Stannis doesn't, Robert blames his brother for not doing it. Either way Stannis always has reasons to grind his teeth over his brother.

Dany had become (however unwillingly) a threat, once she became pregnant with a claimant to the Iron Throne.

But, if Robert’s best friend (Ned) thinks Robert is willing to kill children (Jon, Myrcella, Tommen, Joffrey) who am I to disagree?

[Lord Lannister]

31 minutes ago, SeanF said:

I expect Viserys would not have survived very long at the Wall.  Everyone would know he could be abused and tormented with tacit approval from Kings Landing.

He'd possibly have people on his side there. Aemon for one. Tywin sent Ser Alliser and other Targaryen loyalists to the Wall during the Sack of King's Landing too. 

[Ivan Tsarevich]

36 minutes ago, Lord Lannister said:

Tywin sent Ser Alliser and other Targaryen loyalists to the Wall during the Sack of King's Landing too.

Ser Jaremy Rykker might have been an influence worth something.

[SeanF]

1 hour ago, Lord Lannister said:

He'd possibly have people on his side there. Aemon for one. Tywin sent Ser Alliser and other Targaryen loyalists to the Wall during the Sack of King's Landing too. 

That's a fair point.  

I still think he and Dany would simply have been disposed of.  It's like Remo says in Casino, when the mob bosses are discussing what to do about an associate who they all like, but who has potentially incriminating information:

"Look, why take a chance?  At least, that's the way I see it."

When you have Viserys and Dany in your power, why take a chance?

[Egged]

Maybe they were captured to be sold off. See Viserys I and Aegon III. Aegon “flies away on his dragon during a storm”.

[Jaenara Belarys]

I think that if they were both caught, Viserys would probably be a). gelded b). sent to the Wall, or gelded and then sent to the Wall or c). suffer a "fall" or a "fever". Daenerys would either be sent to the Faith, or wed to Robert's heir. 

If it's only Dany captured, then most her fate will most likely still be the same as above. 

[Here's Looking At You, Kid]

On 12/30/2021 at 10:13 AM, Moiraine Sedai said:

Stannis would do the evil act and would have murdered them both.

I have no sympathy for Stannis. I would be perfectly accepting if Stannis gets fed to the dragons, with each of the three getting an equal share.  

 

On 12/30/2021 at 12:04 AM, SeanF said:

There would be no order for their execution.  They would just be quietly disposed of.  As a baby, Dany could simply be suffocated, or dumped in the sea.  Viserys would catch a “chill.”  Everyone would know what had happened, but no one would talk about it openly.

Pretty much what would have happened.  Viserys was already crowned.  King Viserys III inherited the throne from his father.  Westeros cannot have two kings.  Princess Daenerys was his heir.  They are a threat to Robert's rule. 

Fear not, however.  Dany will slay three lies.  Stannis being the first.  It may not mean literal slaying but she will cast him down and uncover the fraud.  If he is wise, he will kneel and acknowledge her right to rule. 

[The Young Maester]

4 minutes ago, Here's Looking At You, Kid said:

Fear not, however.  Dany will slay three lies.  Stannis being the first.  It may not mean literal slaying but she will cast him down and uncover the fraud.  If he is wise, he will kneel and acknowledge her right to rule. 

You should write a book dedicated to your God Daenerys. Something akin to the bible but with Dany at its centrepiece.

This might also lead to a new religion that follows the word of the Goddess Daenerys. 

[Jaenara Belarys]

7 minutes ago, The Young Maester said:

You should write a book dedicated to your God Daenerys. Something akin to the bible but with Dany at its centrepiece.

This might also lead to a new religion that follows the word of the Goddess Daenerys. 

I shall have it commissioned immediately. 

[Here's Looking At You, Kid]

7 minutes ago, The Young Maester said:

You should write a book dedicated to your God Daenerys. Something akin to the bible but with Dany at its centrepiece.

This might also lead to a new religion that follows the word of the Goddess Daenerys. 

I might just do that.  I will send you an autographed copy. 

[Aline de Gavrillac]

It was too late for Viserys.  He was the chosen heir and Rhaella had already made him King of Westeros. Robert cannot be king while he lives on any part of Westeros.  Princess Daenerys can be used to grease the political wheels to bring along the Royalists.  I am not willing to put the Targaryen children at the mercy of Robert's dogs.  Thank goodness for Ser Willem and his brave companions. 

 

[Lord Lannister]

21 hours ago, Aline de Gavrillac said:

It was too late for Viserys.  He was the chosen heir and Rhaella had already made him King of Westeros. Robert cannot be king while he lives on any part of Westeros.  Princess Daenerys can be used to grease the political wheels to bring along the Royalists.  I am not willing to put the Targaryen children at the mercy of Robert's dogs.  Thank goodness for Ser Willem and his brave companions. 

 

Honestly, I kind of always wondered why Robert let Viserys live and didn't make a move against them until Dany was pregnant. Those rival claimants were always going to represent a threat to Baratheon rule. Assuming of course Viserys' talk of the Usurper's assassins always being one step behind him was just self important bragging of sorts.

[Apoplexy]

1 hour ago, Lord Lannister said:

Honestly, I kind of always wondered why Robert let Viserys live and didn't make a move against them until Dany was pregnant. Those rival claimants were always going to represent a threat to Baratheon rule. Assuming of course Viserys' talk of the Usurper's assassins always being one step behind him was just self important bragging of sorts.

I had always thought Viserys wasn't completely lying, just exaggerating. It's possible Robert tried to have them killed at the beginning of his reign and then got distracted after they weren't found. He must've thought they wouldn't be that big a threat. But when Dany had a dothraki army (supposedly willing to fight her cause) and she was pregnant, things got real and Robert started again.

[frenin]

2 hours ago, Lord Lannister said:

Honestly, I kind of always wondered why Robert let Viserys live and didn't make a move against them until Dany was pregnant.

I'd say because he and his council were ashamed of the idea of killing toddlers. It's not like he was particularly proud of it when he did order the hit.

 

 

25 minutes ago, Apoplexy said:

had always thought Viserys wasn't completely lying, just exaggerating. It's possible Robert tried to have them killed at the beginning of his reign and then got distracted after they weren't found

Both Robert and Renly confirmed that there was no hit after the children, Dany too considers his brother's claims bullshit.

The Baratheon brothers remarked that it was Jon Arryn who talked Robert out of it and Robert pointed out that for a time, till the children were protected by Illyrio, killing them would have been pretty easy.

 

[Apoplexy]

11 minutes ago, frenin said:

Both Robert and Renly confirmed that there was no hit after the children, Dany too considers his brother's claims bullshit.

It's possible viserys was just lying. But I always got the feeling he wasn't. Maybe it wasn't robert who wanted them killed, could have been someone else. Again, none of this is based on any concrete fact, just a feeling.

[frenin]

1 minute ago, Apoplexy said:

It's possible viserys was just lying. But I always got the feeling he wasn't. Maybe it wasn't robert who wanted them killed, could have been someone else. Again, none of this is based on any concrete fact, just a feeling.

He was a paranoid kid who saw blades in every shadow. Wouldn't frame it as lying so much as he being rightfully afraid of being finished off by the new dynasty, his fears are very valid. A dynasty that came to power after the Sack isn't one you should bet on.

Still, Viserys and Dany lived beggaring for years while his steps were being monitored. Killing them, not only for the Baratheon regime but for everyone really would have been extremely easy, they were a teenager and a toddler. That they weren't points towards lack of care instead of lack of accuracy.

And tbh, till the Dothraki deal, no one at any side of the Narrow Sea considered the Targaryen siblings a threat.

[Apoplexy]

11 minutes ago, frenin said:

He was a paranoid kid who saw blades in every shadow. Wouldn't frame it as lying so much as he being rightfully afraid of being finished off by the new dynasty, his fears are very valid.

Either way, I had always thought someone was actually after them. And nothing in text really suggests this, it's just an impression.

[Alysanne Donnelly]

Best case scenario, Viserys is put on trial for his father's crimes and sentenced to the Wall and Daenerys is kept alive and either sent to the motherhouse or forced to marry Joffrey. Keeping Daenerys alive and in the Red Keep would be struggle, but removing her would be a risk.