Jump to content

if you could ask GRRM one question related to asoiaf what would it be?


Falcon2909
 Share

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, Corvo the Crow said:

Another good point.

”Hey babe! Oh this blood? Don’t worry I’m fine, most of it belongs to your brother, you know, the one I just killed and not in the least bit in a knightly fashion. Such a bleeder this Arthur, ruined my frogspear. So uhhh… want to fake your death and come live with me on a crannog in some mosquito infested swamp?”

 

Quote

 

Mercutio loses his temper and begins fighting Tybalt himself. Romeo tries to stop the combat by rushing between them, and Tybalt then stabs Mercutio under his arm. Mercutio dies from the wound, angering an already emotional Romeo. Enraged, Romeo duels and kills Tybalt in return, leading to his own exile by prince Escalus.

Tybalt is revealed to be Juliet's maternal first cousin, when Lady Capulet arrives at the scene where Tybalt lies dead, and cries

"Tybalt, my cousin, O my brother's child!"
—Act III

 

Its not far off from Romeo and Juliet imo

Though I don't see any reason Ashara would be into Howland.

 
Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 hours ago, Lord Lannister said:

It's not what you say, it's how you say it! You see this a lot with non-erotica authors trying to write sex scenes tastefully that just end up being utterly cringe in their phrasing. 

I'm personally okay with "fat pink mast" and "Myrish swamp" from a writing standpoint. Both Sam and Cersei have some real self-loathing issues, and Cersei often turns her loathing outward to weaker prey. They're not written to be sexy; they're written to reveal character.

Now..."her cunt became the world"....just....no. Noooo.......

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Id ask him if he was bored with the Novels now that Dave and Dan have spoiled all his major reveals supposedly. As Martin has stated that if he knows too much of his story that he gets bored. Or maybe he feels that the story of how they get there is different enough and intriguing enough that he can whether the spoiling of the ending. As a book reader, the journey is certainly fun, but so is the self discovery as you go. Some of that discovery has been removed, and may remove ambition to continue on with the books as such for some readers. Affecting book sales. Especially with how many fans felt with the outcome provided by Dave and Dan. 

                                                    As an aspiring artist, writer, or businessmen, the decision to give away such creative control in an interesting move.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, EggBlue said:

I have to say something regarding Ashara and Howland... why does no one seem to care that there is no way in hell that somebody fakes her own death to be with a guy who literally had just told her that he and his friend have killed her brother?

There was three Kingsguards and 7 (?) Northerners at the Tower <- those are FACTS.

All three Kingsguards and 5 out of the 7 Northerners died, the only survivors were Ned Stark and Howland Reed <- those are FACTS.

The most simple conclusion that could be made, based on the sum of those facts, is that the 5 Northerners were killed by the Kingsguards, and that the Kingsguards were killed by the Northerners, 5 of which also got killed in the fight, and 2 - Ned and Howland, survived <- but this is an ASSUMPTION, not a FACT.

We don't know what happened at the Tower of Joy, we don't know how Arthur died, nor who killed him <- those are FACTS.

Aside from Ned and Howland killing Arthur, and their other companions killing the other two Kingsguards, and then also dying, isn't there any other options of what could have happened there, something that ended with this result - 8 dead/2 survivors? -> Of course there IS.

There are multiple possibilities of what could have happened. Multiple.

Here's one of them (my favourite) -> Gerold and Oswell started the fight with the Northerners, despite Arthur originally not intending to fight with them, especially not with Howland, who was his brother-in-law. The two of them attacked the Northerners, and while Arthur was facing off against Ned and Howland, and was trying to brake up the fight, the other two KG killed their 5 opponents, it all happened very fast. And while Arthur's attention was on Ned and Howland, he got stabbed in the back by Gerold or Oswell, which he totally didn't expected. Then, despite Arthur's mortal wound, he was able to kill both Gerold and Oswell, because he was the greatest swordsman in the world, he was the Sword of the Morning. So even mortally wounded he still was a deadly dangerous opponent. Then in Arthur's last moments he asked Howland to take the sword to Ashara, and to take Ashara and newborn Meera away from Dorne, because the other two KG attacking Arthur was an indication that some weird sh*t was happening.

In my opinion, Gerold and Oswell were intending from the very beginning, when they came with Arthur to the Tower, to kill him. And they were just waiting for an opportunity to do so. They wanted to get his sword, because they knew that Dawn of Daynes is Azor Ahai's Lightbringer. And they wanted to get that sword because they were Faceless Men. In a sense that the real Gerold and Oswell were killed by the FM, and then replaced by them.

In Fire&Blood GRRM nearly in plain text revealed to the readers that the Faceless Men infiltrated Targaryen court years ago, and that they are amongst the Kingsguards. They were ALWAYS amongst the Kingsguards, from the moment when Targaryens created this order. The very first KG/FM, in my opinion, was Humfrey the Mummer.

Quote

The new Hand of the King departed within days of his elevation, taking ship for Braavos to consult with the Sealord and the Iron Bank. He was accompanied by Ser Gyles Morrigen and six guardsmen, but only Septon Barth took part in the discussions. The purpose of his mission was a grave one: war or peace. King Jaehaerys had great admiration for the city of Braavos, Barth told the Sealord; for that reason, he had not come himself, understanding as he did the Free City’s bitter history with Valyria and its dragonlords. If his Hand was not able to settle the matter at hand amicably, however, His Grace would have no choice but to come himself on Vermithor for what Barth termed “vigorous discussions.” When the Sealord inquired as to what the matter at hand might be, the septon gave him a sad smile and said, “Is that how this must be played? We are speaking of three eggs. Need I say more?”

The Sealord said, “I admit to nothing. If I was in possession of such eggs, however, it could only be because I purchased them.”

“From a thief.”

“How shall that be proved? Has this thief been seized, tried, found guilty? Braavos is a city of laws. Who is the rightful owner of these eggs? Can they show me proof of ownership?”

“His Grace can show you proof of dragons.”

That made the Sealord smile. “The veiled threat. Your king is most adroit at that. Stronger than his father, more subtle than his uncle. Yes, I know what Jaehaerys could do to us, if he chose. Braavosi have a long memory, and we remember the dragonlords of old. There are certain things that we might do to your king as well, however. Shall I enumerate? Or do you prefer the threat veiled?”

“However it please your lordship.”

“As you will. Your king could burn my city down to ash, I do not doubt. Tens of thousands would die in dragonflame. Men, women, and children. I do not have the power to wreak that sort of destruction upon Westeros. Such sellswords as I might hire would flee before your knights. My fleets could sweep yours from the sea for a time, but my ships are made of wood, and wood burns. However, there is in this city a certain…guild, let us say…whose members are very skilled at their chosen profession. They could not destroy King’s Landing, nor fill its streets with corpses. But they could kill…a few. A well-chosen few.

His Grace is protected day and night by the Kingsguard.

Knights, yes. Such as the man who waits for you outside. If indeed he is still waiting. What would you say if I were to tell you that Ser Gyles is already dead?” When Septon Barth began to rise, the Sealord waved him back to his seat. “No, please, no need to rush away. I said what if. I did consider it. They are most skilled, as I said. Had I done so, however, you might have acted unwisely, and many more good people might have died. That is not my desire. Threats make me uncomfortable. Westerosi may be warriors, but we Braavosi are traders. Let us trade.”

Septon Barth settled back down. “What do you offer?”

“I do not have these eggs, of course,” the Sealord said. “You cannot prove elsewise. If I did have them, however…well, until they hatch, they are but stones. Would your king begrudge me three pretty stones? Now, if I had three…chickens…I might understand his concern. I do admire your Jaehaerys, though. He is a great improvement on his uncle, and Braavos does not wish to see him so unhappy. So instead of stones, let me offer…gold.”

And with that the real bargaining began.

The real Gyles Morrigen was killed and replaced by a Faceless Man years ago, long prior to that visit to Braavos in 57 AC. He was already an FM in 51 AC, during the attack on Queen Alysanne at Jonquil's Pool.

A few days ago I was reading an article, an interview with GRRM's editor, it's an old one, and she said that usually GRRM reveals to the readers a mystery in three steps. First he gives a subtle clue, then later a more obvious clue, and then reveals the mystery in plain text.

So, concerning the Faceless Men's presense amongst the Kingsguards, this was that first subtle clue (The Hedge Knight):

Quote

Prince Maekar turned to face him. “Some men will say I meant to kill my brother. The gods know it is a lie, but I will hear the whispers till the day I die. And it was my mace that dealt the fatal blow, I have no doubt. The only other foes he faced in the melee were three Kingsguard, whose vows forbade them to do any more than defend themselves. So it was me. Strange to say, I do not recall the blow that broke his skull.

The more obvious clue is the one about Gyles Morrigen, in F&B. So in the next book GRRM will reveal in plain text that the Faceless Men Guild had infiltrated the Kingsguard.

For me that second clue was enough to figure out nearly everything. I went thru the lists of all know Kingsguards and found there hints concerning many of them, that they were also FM.

During King Aerys' reign, amongst his Kingsguards only Arthur, Barristan and Jaime, and maybe also Lewyn Martell, were themselves, and the other 3 or 4, including Jonothor Darry, were replaced by Faceless Men. I have no idea when Oswell Whent got replaced, and I'm not 100% sure that he was an FM, but I'm 1000000% sure about Gerold. Gerold was an FM as far back as during the reign of Jaehaerys II. Gerold killed King Jaehaerys, using on him the Strangler poison. Jonothor Darry poisoned King Aerys with basilisk blood, on Queen Rhaella's last night at the Red Keep. And Gerold poisoned Aerys with basilisk blood, or some other psychotropic substance, while they were at the tournament at Harrenhal, that's why Aerys at that time was behaving like insane.

It would have been not possible for the FM to replace Jaime, because he just recently joined KG, and thus they didn't had yet an opportunity to study him and to learn how to impersonate him. And it would have been hard to kill Arthur, because he was the Sword of the Morning. And because Arthur was an unremovable obstacle, they also couldn't have killed Lewyn Martell. Because it's likely that when Arthur was a child, and when Lewyn was not yet a Kingsguard, when both of them were still at Dorne, at the Martell court, they knew each other very well. So it would have been very hard for a Faceless Man to kill Lewyn, and to impersonate him sufficiently enough to convince Arthur that Lewyn is Lewyn, and not some impostor who just looks like him. And it was hard to kill Barristan, because in my opinion Barri has some sort of gift of foresight, that warns him about imminent danger, thus it's impossible to sneak up on him. Thus Jaime, Barristan, Arthur and Lewyn were not "replaceable". Which can't be said about the other three - Gerold, Oswell and Jonothor. It's likely that Jonothor Darry was Willem Darry's either younger brother, or some sort of cousin. Though, even if they were brothers, I think that there was a big age difference between them, and thus they weren't close. They weren't growing up together. By the time when Jonothor was born, his older brother - Willem, was already serving at the Targaryen court, as their master-at-arms. Thus those two were nearly strangers to each other. And thus there would have been no problems for the Faceless Men to kill Jonothor, and to replace him with an FM.

Thus, if out of the three Kingsguards present at the Tower of Joy, two were Faceless Men, then what actually had happened there, we don't know. Either way, it wasn't something as simple as the 3 KG killed 5 Northerners, and then Ned and Howland killed them too.

So it wasn't Howland Reed who killed Arthur Dayne. And thus there was absolutely no reasons for Ashara to have a grudge against Howland. And no reason for her not to leave Dorne, and to go with her husband and their newborn daughter to the Neck.

7 hours ago, Aebram said:

I thought of another question I'd like to ask the Martin: "why did you publish AWOIAF and FAB before you finished the core story?"

It occurred to me that the answer might be that he did it to provide us careful readers with new territory in which to search for clues about where the story is going.

<- This - :agree:

GRRM used TWOIAF, F&B, and Dunk&Egg novels to create foundation, using which he will later make reveals, concerning the mysteries hidden in ASOIAF.

For example - in F&B he hid a foundation for the later reveal that the Perfumed Seneschal is Septa Lemore/Lady Jeyne Swann.

Johanna Swann - the Black Swann of Lys, was a famous Lyseni courtesan. According to TWOIAF and F&B she eventually became ruler of Lys in all but name. According to F&B in Lys there was a luxury pleasure garden (a brothel) owned by Lysandro Rogare - the Perfumed Garden. And about Lysandro it was said that he became prince of Lys in all but name.

So based on that information, and several other elements scattered all over the books, I made conclusion that Johanna Swann was Larra Rogare's mother, and that Jeyne Swann is Johanna's descendant, and thus the Perfumed Seneschal is Jeyne/Lemore. And she is Dany's most dangerous opponent, because she is fAegon's mother (the father is Barristan Selmy, who is a son of Aenys Blackfyre's daughter <- the clues about this were also in the books).

So the other books are there to plant clues in them, and to build a foundation for the later reveals.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Megorova I agree that something doesn't make sense with Arthur's death since Daynes seem much too OK with Ned. an honorable fight and a gesture with the sword isn't enough . However , I still find it hard to believe Ashara is Jyanna Reed. first of all, there wasn't any reason for her to change her identity in that scenario. and note that neither Meera nor Jojen have any resemblance to a tall purple eyed Ashara . 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

32 minutes ago, EggBlue said:

@Megorova I agree that something doesn't make sense with Arthur's death since Daynes seem much too OK with Ned. an honorable fight and a gesture with the sword isn't enough . However , I still find it hard to believe Ashara is Jyanna Reed. first of all, there wasn't any reason for her to change her identity in that scenario. and note that neither Meera nor Jojen have any resemblance to a tall purple eyed Ashara . 

Ned + Ashara story has some truth to it I believe(I believe Allyria is probably their daughter), so that might've helped a little but not just that, bringing Dawn back is a big thing by itself. We see examples of heirlooms etc. not being given back. Ice is one such, Red Rain is another and I bet there would be more in not just swords but other things as well.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said:

Ned + Ashara story has some truth to it I believe(I believe Allyria is probably their daughter), so that might've helped a little but not just that, bringing Dawn back is a big thing by itself. We see examples of heirlooms etc. not being given back. Ice is one such, Red Rain is another and I bet there would be more in not just swords but other things as well.

true. swords are important. but as much as naming an only son after the guy?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 1/2/2022 at 11:52 AM, Megorova said:

She is shadowbinder Quaithe

Perhaps in your mind. It would be worth asking about Quaithe, since her motivations are opaque, but I expect GRRM prefers it that way.

Quote

Also in the past, while living at Asshai, she was maester Marwyn's and Mirri Maz Duur's teacher.

Another thing in your mind, although in this case it's not even a character who appears on the page.

Quote

From Braavos she traveled on the same ship as Sam and maester Aemon (actually she boarded that ship at Qarth

Under what identity?

Quote

Also, mind that Ashara is not so memorable as to be remembered by people for years after her supposed death.

Cersei remembered her well enough to throw her in Ned's face.

7 hours ago, AlaskanSandman said:

As an aspiring artist, writer, or businessmen, the decision to give away such creative control in an interesting move.

He was expecting to finish the books before the show got there.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, EggBlue said:

true. swords are important. but as much as naming an only son after the guy?

Perhaps he spared Starfall? Though we don’t hear it much, Dorne has seen it’s share of the war as well

Quote

"I shall wear that as a badge of honor," Ned said dryly.

"Honor," she spat. "How dare you play the noble lord with me! What do you take me for? You've a bastard of your own, I've seen him. Who was the mother, I wonder? Some Dornish peasant you raped while her holdfast burned? A whore? Or was it the grieving sister, the Lady Ashara? She threw herself into the sea, I'm told. Why was that? For the brother you slew, or the child you stole? Tell me, my honorable Lord Eddard, how are you any different from Robert, or me, or Jaime?"

"For a start," said Ned, "I do not kill children. You would do well to listen, my lady. I shall say this only once. When the king returns from his hunt, I intend to lay the truth before him. You must be gone by then. You and your children, all three, and not to Casterly Rock. If I were you, I should take ship for the Free Cities, or even farther, to the Summer Isles or the Port of Ibben. As far as the winds blow."

I’m betting that when travelling south, Ned had his army at his back and Dorne wasn’t as fast to dip their banners and some fighting occured. He left his soldiers behind and rode forth to ToJ just with his magnificent seven and after that, to Starfall and made them yield peacefully, saving them from the horrors of war occuring elsewhere in Dorne. This too isn’t enough but I don’t know what could have transpired. 
 

Ned has erected 8 cairns but someone else beside Howland was there

Quote

I was with her when she died," Ned reminded the king. "She wanted to come home, to rest beside Brandon and Father." He could hear her still at times. Promise me, she had cried, in a room that smelled of blood and roses. Promise me, Ned. The fever had taken her strength and her voice had been faint as a whisper, but when he gave her his word, the fear had gone out of his sister's eyes. Ned remembered the way she had smiled then, how tightly her fingers had clutched his as she gave up her hold on life, the rose petals spilling from her palm, dead and black. After that he remembered nothing. They had found him still holding her body, silent with grief. The little crannogman, Howland Reed, had taken her hand from his. Ned could recall none of it. "I bring her flowers when I can," he said. "Lyanna was … fond of flowers."

 

So perhaps Howland saved Ned by using his net, disabling Arthur through non lethal means but if Arthur survived, who lies in the 8th cairn?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

:dunno: 

maybe Arthur wanted to be assumed dead. If Ned had spared him and helped him , it explains why Daynes seem to feel indebted . but then the question would be where is he now? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would ask if he is open to change some parts of the stories planned outline. That is after he has foreshadowed something. Then have it changed so that a different set of events happen. This different set of events would also appear to be foreshadowed, only that this knowledge is restricted to GRRM only.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 hours ago, EggBlue said:

there wasn't any reason for her to change her identity in that scenario.

We don't know what happened at Dorne in span of Robert's Rebellion, and even the scenario in which were involved the Faceless Men, covers only part of the picture. So just because we don't know what was happening, and thus also don't know what could have been the reason for Ashara to fake her death and to leave Dorne, it doesn't mean that there was no reason. Also, don't forget that despite the fact that we - the readers, don't know what had happened at the Tower, and how Arthur really died, the characters believe that he was killed by Ned and Howland, and only the Daynes (though not Edric, because he's just a child, so the adults of his House didn't shared with him that information, about how Arthur really died. Though they raised him without hatred towards Ned Stark, who supposedly killed Arthur, by teling him that Ned Stark's bastard is Edric's milk brother. Thus Edric had positive feelings towards the Starks, not malicious) know the truth about what really happened at the Tower, and how Arthur really died. So, despite Ned and Howland not being Arthur's murderers, they had to take the blame, because they couldn't reveal to the general public, who really killed Arthur.

Also, it's not obvious whether the Kingsguard who attacked Arthur, and mortally wounded him, revealed that he is a Faceless Man, or whether he was playing the role of the KG until the very end, when he also got killed. So there are two options - either Ned and Howland, and later the Daynes thru them too, found out that the Faceless Men are after the sword (and the baby - Rhaegar's baby), or whether Arthur died while thinking that his sworn-brothers attacked him on the King's (Aerys') orders. Eitherway, afterwards there was a reason why Ned and Howland took the blame for Arthur's death, instead of revealing the truth about how he really died.

21 hours ago, EggBlue said:

and note that neither Meera nor Jojen have any resemblance to a tall purple eyed Ashara . 

Note that Jon also doesn't look like his father (Rhaegar). And neither did Rhaenys looked like Rhaegar, instead she looked like her Dornish mother. And Baelor Breakspear looked like his partially Dornish mother. And neither did Jocelyn Baratheon, who was dark-haired, looked like her mother - Alyssa Velaryon.

And all of Robert Baratheon's bastards looked like him, and none of them looked like their mothers. No matter what was the hair and eye color of those women, all their children had Robert's hair and Robert's eyes.

So, in case with the Reeds, two of them look like their father, and one - Edric, looks like his maternal uncle - Arthur Dayne, who was blond and blue-eyed, like Edric is. Despite Jojen and Edric being twins, their looks are different, one looks like his father and the other like his maternal uncle and grandfather (or grandmother) - father (or mother) of Arthur and Ashara (depends on who out of their parents was a Dayne).

20 hours ago, FictionIsntReal said:
On 1/2/2022 at 7:52 PM, Megorova said:

She is shadowbinder Quaithe

Perhaps in your mind. It would be worth asking about Quaithe, since her motivations are opaque, but I expect GRRM prefers it that way.

ADWD - "She dreamed. All her cares fell away from her, and all her pains as well, and she seemed to float upward into the sky. She was flying once again, spinning, laughing, dancing, as the stars wheeled around her and whispered secrets in her ear. “To go north, you must journey south. To reach the west, you must go east. To go forward, you must go back. To touch the light you must pass beneath the shadow.”

Quaithe?” Dany called. “Where are you, Quaithe?

Then she saw. Her mask is made of starlight. “Remember who you are, Daenerys,” the stars whispered in a woman’s voice."

AGOT - "Wings shadowed her fever dreams. ... the stars smiled down on them, stars in a daylight sky. ... suddenly the stars were gone, and across the blue sky swept the great wings, and the world took flame. ... Viserys stood before her...  Ghosts lined the hallway, dressed in the faded raiment of kings. In their hands were swords of pale fire. They had hair of silver and hair of gold and hair of platinum white, and their eyes were opal and amethyst, tourmaline and jade. “Faster,” they cried, “faster, faster.” She raced, her feet melting the stone wherever they touched. “Faster!the ghosts cried as one, and she screamed and threw herself forward. A great knife of pain ripped down her back, and she felt her skin tear open and smelled the stench of burning blood and saw the shadow of wings. And Daenerys Targaryen flew. ... After that, for a long time, there was only the pain, the fire within her, and the whisperings of stars."

In Dany's last chapter in ADWD, she was flying once again (not on a dragon, but by herself), same as in her fevered dream in AGOT, where she also saw and heard smiling and whispering stars. In ADWD she recognized the voice of the stars, as Quaithe's voice. She looked at Quaithe and saw that her mask is "made of starlight", which is a hint that she is Shiera Seastar. In AGOT Quaithe at first appeared as the stars in a daylight sky, and then the stars were gone and the world took flame, because she took off her red mask and lowered the hood of her black cloak, and then Dany saw that she has Valyrian dragonseed looks. That's why in Dany's fevered mind she saw Shiera/Quaithe as Viserys, because besides Dany herself, her brother Viserys was the only other Targaryen that she ever saw, and Shiera is half-Targ. The faded rainment of kings is red and black - red mask, black cloak - traditional colors of House Targaryen - kings of the past, that's why "faded rainment of kings". Those four gemstones are blue and green, and blue-green - bicolored, like Shiera's eyes. Shiera's hair is silver-gold, and with age it became partially platinum-white. The swords in the hands of the ghosts is a Valyrian glass candle, using which Shiera/Quaithe "astral-projected" into Khal Drogo's tent, when Dany there was giving birth to Rhaego. She was summoned there by Mirri Maz Duur, who in the past was Shiera's apprentice, when Shiera lived at Asshai, when she was also maester Marwyn's teacher. The ghosts cried as one because it was one person.

For me all those clues are more than enough to be absolutely sure, to KNOW, that Quaithe is Shiera, and that she was ASOIAF's character as far back as in AGOT. Furthermore, there was this (Bran III) - "The crow opened its beak and cawed at him, a shrill scream of fear, and the grey mists shuddered and swirled around him and ripped away like a veil, and he saw that the crow was really a woman, a serving woman with long black hair, and he knew her from somewhere, from Winterfell, yes, that was it, he remembered her now, and then he realized that he was in Winterfell, in a bed high in some chilly tower room, and the black-haired woman dropped a basin of water to shatter on the floor and ran down the steps, shouting, “He’s awake, he’s awake, he’s awake.”"

In his coma-dream Bran saw the Three-Eyed Crow, when he woke up - he saw a dark-haired woman that worked at Winterfell as their servant, and in the place between dreams and reality he saw the real identity of the Three-Eyed Crow, that it was a woman. It was Shiera, though afterwards Bran forgot her, same as he forgot what he saw in the heart of winter - himself in the future "wedded to a tree".

So Shiera/Quaithe/3EC in ASOIAF appeared for the first time in the 17th chapter of AGOT.

Also "shiera" (シエラ) from Japanese to French translates as "quai", and both words in both languages have the same meaning - a long jagged mountain chain, or long barrow. Long barrows are associated with the banshi and the Queen of Phantoms Morrigan, whose avatar was a Battle Crow. So Quaithe, who is a shadowbinder/queen of phantoms, like Morrigan, is the 3EC. And from Welsh "mor" part in Morrigan's name translates as "the sea", like Sea-Star in Shiera's name.

With all those clues and hints, I'm not the first member of this forum who figured out that Quaithe is actually Shiera Seastar.

All the way back in 2013, 14.7% of ASOIAF's readers also thought so (the 3rd poll):

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1gpuBDOQhEmZNtZGO2zm7dD7w1agRULQgTO17fvKpbCE/viewanalytics

And there are several threads here, posted years ago, about Quaithe=Shiera, like this one ->

https://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/99023-a-star-of-the-sea-quaithe-shiera-seastar-connecting-the-dots/

20 hours ago, FictionIsntReal said:
Quote

From Braavos she traveled on the same ship as Sam and maester Aemon (actually she boarded that ship at Qarth

Under what identity?

It's irrelevant, she didn't needed to use any identity for that trip, because the captain of that ship was one of her agents.

When the Cinnamon Wind was at Qarth, and when the captain brought to Dany the news that Robert Baratheon is dead, he told her that afterwards the ship will go to the Jade Sea. ACOK, Dany II - " “When does your ship return to Westeros, Captain?” “Not for a year or more, I fear. From here the Cinnamon Wind sails east, to make the trader’s circle round the Jade Sea.” "

Despite what he said, just a few months later the ship was at Braavos, which is nowhere near the Jade Sea. That's because the captain at the time of his visit to Dany, didn't knew yet that Quaithe wasn't at Asshai, which is at the Jade Sea, and that she was already at Qarth. And thus there was no need for him to go to Asshai/Jade Sea to fetch her from there. Instead they went to Braavos, and from there to Westeros. Quaithe was on that ship long before Sam and Co boarded it. And they didn't saw her there, because either she was staying in her cabin (it takes only ~10 days to cross the Narrow Sea), or she shadow-glamoured herself to look like someone else.

Same as she shadow-glamoured - 1. Bloodraven in The Mystery Knight novel to look like Maynard Plumm; 2. herself to look like a septa, when she and Lady Jeyne Swann were saved from the Kingswood Brotherhood by Barristan Selmy; 3. herself to look like a wildling-healer, when she treated Mance Rayder from his wounds, before he deserted from the Night's Watch; 4. how Melisandre in ADWD shadow-glamoured Mance to look like Rattleshirt, and 5. how Larra Rogare (Shiera's mother) in F&B was shadow-glamouring in turns herself and Gaemon Palehair, to look like Aegon III, after they and Viserys in 135 AC killed the real Aegon.

Quaithe/Shiera being on that ship explains why the ship went to Braavos, and not to the Jade Sea. What she was supposed to do at Essos, she has already did, thus afterwards she had to go to Westeros, and thus she did - on the Cinnamon Wind. Though, prior to the ship's arrival to Oldtown, she switched ships, and continued her journey on board of the Huntress. She's going to The North, not to Oldtown. She's going to Jon, because she had already tried to get to him thru his dreams (like she did with Dany, by using glass candle), but the Ghost didn't let her, thus she needs to meet with Jon in flesh. ADWD, Jon I - " "Snow," the moon insisted. The white wolf ran from it, racing toward the cave of night where the sun had hidden, his breath frosting in the air."

In that dream - the "moon" is Shiera, the "sun" is Bloodraven, the cave of night is the cave of the Children, where the heart of the winter is. In Dothraki and Yi-Tish legends the Moon/Maiden-made-of-light was the wife of the Sun/Lion-of-the-night, so the Dothraki spouses/lovers are referring to each other - moon of my life (to females) and my sun and stars (to males). Shiera's mask is made of starlight because it is made from a weirwood, and probably also laquered with Bloodraven's blood. Bloodraven's soul mostly went into the tree, and Shiera's mask probably is carved from the piece of that tree. So there are stars in her mask, because Bloodraven is Shiera's "sun and stars", her paramour, and he is connected to her with blood-magic thru that mask. Also, in my opinion, Shiera's sign of Zodiac is Cancer, so her guardian planet is the Moon, and thus one of her heart stones is a moonstone, while Bloodraven is a Leo, and thus his guardian planet is the Sun, and his heart stones are emeralds and sapphires. So that's why Bloodraven gave to Shiera as a present a silver necklace with emeralds and sapphires <- his heart stones, and she gave him as a reciprocating present a moonstone brooch (which was also a shadow-artifact, using which Bloodraven, who is not a shadowbinder, same as Mance/Rattleshirt is not a shadowbinder, was able to change his looks and to look like Maynard Plumm. Bloodraven is not and never was a sorcerer, it was always Shiera who was assisting him with magic, until she binded him to the weirwood tree in that cave, where he is now). By giving to each other those presents with their heart stones, they sort of exchanged hearts - a present with a meaning, like the exchange of rings during the wedding ceremony. So Shiera is the moon, and Bloodraven is her sun and stars, though with most of his soul being in the tree, in the cave of night remains only the sun-part, while the star-part is in Shiera's/Quaithe's weirwood mask "made of starlight". Which is indeed for an average reader is a too complex concept to grasp. That's because GRRM didn't intended for the readers to figure it out. He planted all those elements into the books, not for the readers, but for himself - to use them later as the foundation for the future reveals.

So Shiera/Quaithe is an important character in ASOIAF, and she already left from Essos and went to the 7K. But you can keep thinking that all that is just a figment of my imagination. Until the next book :cheers:

Edited by Megorova
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, Megorova said:

And all of Robert Baratheon's bastards looked like him, and none of them looked like their mothers. No matter what was the hair and eye color of those women, all their children had Robert's hair and Robert's eyes.

We don't know too much about what most of those mothers look like.

Quote

he saw a dark-haired woman that worked at Winterfell as their servant, and in the place between dreams and reality he saw the real identity of the Three-Eyed Crow, that it was a woman. It was Shiera

 

Shiera has silver-gold hair, not black hair.

Quote

It's irrelevant, she didn't needed to use any identity for that trip, because the captain of that ship was one of her agents.

How can you know she was on the ship if you can't point to any person she was travelling as?

Quote

That's because the captain at the time of his visit to Dany, didn't knew yet that Quaithe wasn't at Asshai, which is at the Jade Sea, and that she was already at Qarth.

Quaithe was one of the three people the Qartheen chose to greet Dany. Why would they pick someone who just got there recently rather than someone who'd been there awhile?

Quote

But you can keep thinking that all that is just a figment of my imagination.

I will.

Quote

Until the next book :cheers:

It's seeming increasingly unlikely to be resolved, but we could bet on this.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...