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Florian the Fool Lannister.


AlaskanSandman

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A Feast for Crows - Cersei II

"You need a Hand," he said, "and Jaime has refused you."
He is blunt. Very well. "Jaime . . . I felt so lost with Father dead, I scarce knew what I was saying. Jaime is gallant, but a bit of a fool, let us be frank. Tommen needs a more seasoned man. Someone older . . ."

 

 
 

 

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A Feast for Crows - Cersei II

"You are not your father. And Tywin always regarded Jaime as his rightful heir."
"Jaime . . . Jaime has taken vows. Jaime never thinks, he laughs at everything and everyone and says whatever comes into his head. Jaime is a handsome fool."

 

 
 

 

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A Feast for Crows - Jaime I

"Ah." The eunuch sucked the blood off his fingers. "You ask a dreadful thing . . . to loose the Imp who slew our lovely king. Or is it that you believe him innocent?"
"Innocent or guilty," Jaime had said, like the fool he was, "a Lannister pays his debts." The words had come so easy.

 

 
 
 
Ser Jamie Lannister, the Golden Fool. Took me a while to catch on, but now I think I know one of the legendary myths.
 
Jonquil is a hue of yellow. It is the color of the interior of the central cylindrical tubular projection of the jonquil flower. The color takes its name from a species of plant, Narcissus jonquilla, which has clusters of small fragrant yellow flowers, and is native to the Mediterranean.
 
I thought for a moment maybe this was the Hellibore reference, but the Yellow part stood out to me as different than the Blue one associated with House Stark and House Florent of the Reach. This quote struck me as odd though, they both burned. Thinking Dany again still, but is Jon going to die too by fire?  With the dragon dying?
 

 

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The Hedge Knight

The puppeteer's stall had been knocked on its side. The fat Dornishwoman was on the ground weeping.
One man-at-arms was dangling the puppets of Florian and Jonquil from his hands as another set them afire with a torch. Three more men were opening chests, spilling more puppets on the ground and stamping on them. The dragon puppet was scattered all about them, a broken wing here, its head there, its tail in three pieces. And in the midst of it all stood Prince Aerion, resplendent in a red velvet doublet with long dagged sleeves, twisting Tanselle's arm in both hands. She was on her knees, pleading with him. Aerion ignored her. He forced open her hand and seized one of her fingers. Dunk stood there stupidly, not quite believing what he saw. Then he heard a crack, and Tanselle screamed.

 

 

Maybe but then there are these things.

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The Hedge Knight

He found Egg at the puppet show, sitting crosslegged on the ground with the hood of his cloak pulled all the way forward to hide his baldness. The boy had been afraid to enter the castle, which Dunk put down to equal parts shyness and shame. He does not think himself worthy to mingle with lords and ladies, let alone great princes. It had been the same with him when he was little. The world beyond Flea Bottom had seemed as frightening as it was exciting. Egg needs time, that's all. For the present, it seemed kinder to give the lad a few coppers and let him enjoy himself among the stalls than to drag him along unwilling into the castle.
This morning the puppeteers were doing the tale of Florian and Jonquil. The fat Dornishwoman was working Florian in his armor made of motley, while the tall girl held Jonquil's strings. "You are no knight," she was saying as the puppet's mouth moved up and down. "I know you. You are Florian the Fool."
"I am, my lady," the other puppet answered, kneeling. "As great a fool as ever lived, and as great a knight as well."
"A fool and a knight?" said Jonquil. "I have never heard of such a thing."
"Sweet lady," said Florian, "all men are fools, and all men are knights, where women are concerned."
It was a good show, sad and sweet both, with a sprightly swordfight at the end, and a nicely painted giant. When it was over, the fat woman went among the crowd to collect coins while the girl packed away the puppets.

 

 
 

 

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A Clash of Kings - Catelyn VII

"The two with the white sunburst, were they?" Jaime gave a shrug. "If truth be told, it was your son that I was trying to slay. The others got in my way. I killed them in fair fight, in the heat of battle. Any other knight would have done the same."
"How can you still count yourself a knight, when you have forsaken every vow you ever swore?"

 

 
 

 

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A Clash of Kings - Sansa II

Nodding, Sansa took a step . . . then spun back, nervous, and softly laid a kiss on his cheek, her eyes closed. "My Florian," she whispered. "The gods heard my prayer."
She flew along the river walk, past the small kitchen, and through the pig yard, her hurried footsteps lost beneath the squealing of the hogs in their pens. Home, she thought, home, he is going to take me home, he'll keep me safe, my Florian. The songs about Florian and Jonquil were her very favorites. Florian was homely too, though not so old.

 

 
 
Florian was homely though, and Jamie is not. So what about Tyrion?

 

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A Feast for Crows - Brienne II

"No. Not that Hand. The one before. His son. I fought with him in the battle. I shouted 'Halfman! Halfman!'"
The Imp's squire. Brienne had not even known he had one. Tyrion Lannister was no knight. He might have been expected to have a serving boy or two to attend him, she supposed, a page and a cupbearer, someone to help dress him. But a squire? "Why are you stalking after me?" she said. "What do you want?"

 

 
 
No true knight, and homely. Unlike Jamie.

 

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A Game of Thrones - Tyrion III

Mormont scarcely seemed to hear him. The old man warmed his hands before the fire. "I sent Benjen Stark to search after Yohn Royce's son, lost on his first ranging. The Royce boy was green as summer grass, yet he insisted on the honor of his own command, saying it was his due as a knight. I did not wish to offend his lord father, so I yielded. I sent him out with two men I deemed as good as any in the Watch. More fool I."
"Fool," the raven agreed. Tyrion glanced up. The bird peered down at him with those beady black eyes, ruffling its wings. "Fool," it called again. Doubtless old Mormont would take it amiss if he throttled the creature. A pity.

 

 
 
The clever Tryion? The Fool.
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A Game of Thrones - Tyrion V

"This is Tyrion the Imp, of House Lannister, who murdered your father." She raised her voice so it carried down the length of High Hall of the Eyrie, ringing off the milk-white walls and the slender pillars, so every man could hear it. "He slew the Hand of the King!"
"Oh, did I kill him too?" Tyrion had said, like a fool.

 

 
 

 

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A Storm of Swords - Tyrion IX

Lord Tywin frowned. "Must we have you chained hand and foot like a common brigand?"
Tyrion gnashed his teeth. A second mistake, fool, fool, fool of a dwarf. Keep your calm or you're doomed. "No. I beg your pardons, my lords. His lies angered me."

 

 
 
Tyrion Lannister, the Fool Florian, and his Jonquil. Sansa. This got me thinking
 
 
In the original outline, Sansa was to betray her family. While Tyrion was to have feelings for Arya. It seems GRRM moved Tryion to having feelings for Sansa, or at least being wed to her. Something that hasn't been undone.
Could Tyrion and Sansa be Florian and Jonquil? Doomed to die by fire? The couple is still wed and each married to the House their House hates. Or is it Jamie and Cersei? Doomed to die as Daenerys burns them down in K.L maybe?
 
Tyrion seems to fit more as both fighting at the Battle of the Blackwater and having a squire despite not being a true Knight, and is homely looking as is Florian the Fool.

 

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A Clash of Kings - Tyrion X

Tyrion covered her mouth with his own. He'd had talk enough; he needed the sweet simplicity of the pleasure he found between Shae's thighs. Here, at least, he was welcome, wanted.
Afterward, he eased his arm out from under her head, slipped on his tunic, and went down to the garden. A half-moon silvered the leaves of the fruit trees and shone on the surface of the stone bathing pond. Tyrion seated himself beside the water. Somewhere off to his right a cricket was chirping, a curiously homey sound. It is peaceful here, he thought, but for how long?
A whiff of something rank made him turn his head. Shae stood in the door behind him, dressed in the silvery robe he'd given her. I loved a maid as white as winter, with moonglow in her hair. Behind her stood one of the begging brothers, a portly man in filthy patched robes, his bare feet crusty with dirt, a bowl hung about his neck on a leather thong where a septon would have worn a crystal. The smell of him would have gagged a rat.

 

 
 

 

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A Dance with Dragons - Tyrion IV

Only if we pray in the fashion of the Summer Isles. "No, but do give the Maiden a long, sweet kiss for me."
Laughing, the septa walked to the prow of the boat. It was her custom to bathe in the river every morning. "Plainly, this boat was not named for you," Tyrion called as she disrobed.

 

 
 

 

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A Storm of Swords - Jaime III

Two days' ride to either side of the kingsroad, they passed through a wide swath of destruction, miles of blackened fields and orchards where the trunks of dead trees jutted into the air like archers' stakes. The bridges were burnt as well, and the streams swollen by autumn rains, so they had to range along the banks in search of fords. The nights were alive with howling of wolves, but they saw no people.
At Maidenpool, Lord Mooton's red salmon still flew above the castle on its hill, but the town walls were deserted, the gates smashed, half the homes and shops burned or plundered. They saw nothing living but a few feral dogs that went slinking away at the sound of their approach. The pool from which the town took its name, where legend said that Florian the Fool had first glimpsed Jonquil bathing with her sisters, was so choked with rotting corpses that the water had turned into a murky grey-green soup.

 

 
 
Tyrion even seems to be linked to bathing and naked women, though Jamie does bathe with Brienne too. Again though, Jamie isn't homely.
 
Just something fun I thought to ponder over. Sansa is being stolen from her husband Tyrion by Baelish.
 
Let me know your thought though. Complete rubbish, or possible Florian the Fool in Tyrion Lannister.
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6 hours ago, AlaskanSandman said:
In the original outline, Sansa was to betray her family. While Tyrion was to have feelings for Arya. It seems GRRM moved Tryion to having feelings for Sansa, or at least being wed to her. Something that hasn't been undone.
Could Tyrion and Sansa be Florian and Jonquil? Doomed to die by fire? The couple is still wed and each married to the House their House hates.

interesting

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10 hours ago, Mourning Star said:

I would suggest that Gregor Clegane is a possible Florian, the arms of house Clegane are three hounds on a yellow field.

Sandor maybe, idk about Cregor. Florian didn't sound crazy. The Hound is a Florian type figure to Sansa, and is ugly. Sandor is also never called Ser, unlike Dontos and Gregor.

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12 hours ago, Phylum of Alexandria said:

Crowfood's Daughter mentions Tyrion as a stand-in for Florian the Fool, as well as other stand-ins, in her video about The Grey King's Merling Wife:

 

Pretty interesting stuff!

That was actually super interesting! 

The Grey King has a chance of being Garth the Green by his description, or a son of his, by the length of his age. 1000 years like Durran God's Grief.

She doesn't mention the Winter Rose though. Or how Galladon of Morne is of House Tarth. House Tarth's lord Even(Star) of Even(fall) points to Starfall and House Dayne.

A lot to chew on and think about! Thank you very much!

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5 hours ago, AlaskanSandman said:

That was actually super interesting! 

The Grey King has a chance of being Garth the Green by his description, or a son of his, by the length of his age. 1000 years like Durran God's Grief.

She doesn't mention the Winter Rose though. Or how Galladon of Morne is of House Tarth. House Tarth's lord Even(Star) of Even(fall) points to Starfall and House Dayne.

A lot to chew on and think about! Thank you very much!

Yeah, her other videos are really good as well, and most are Grey King related.

I have a ton of questions I'd like to pick CD's brain about, but I don't think she frequents this site anymore.

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1 minute ago, Phylum of Alexandria said:

Yeah, her other videos are really good as well, and most are Grey King related.

I have a ton of questions I'd like to pick CD's brain about, but I don't think she frequents this site anymore.

Yea there were some things I would love to run by her too haha She had a very well put together theory and I absolutely loved the real world myths mixed in as I have linked many real world myth inspirations too. 

Sansa though, is connected to Dontos a drowned motley, and Tyrion a drowned motley, but also Peter Baelish. Which brings back the Bael legend. Which hers did not mention.

Something about Bael, the Kings beyond the Wall, the Nights' Watch, and the Others are part of the legend. Maris the Maid is aunt to Bran the Builder who built the Wall and the Hightower. With the War for the Dawn being won by Bran the Builder. Maris was Queen of Love and Beauty, and given a rose im assuming. This is like Lyanna and Sansa, who both have a Black brother in attendance or near abouts. Sansa had Yoren.

Which is another interesting point. Yoren is part of Vary's team, against Baelish. So Varys stole Arya, one stark maid not connected to the Tourney, Queen of Love and Beauty, or Blue Roses. While Baelish stole a Stark Maid who is.

See, unlike her, I think Durran's taking of Elenei is different than Maris being taken by Uthor. As she says, there is the brother aspect. Seen in the Good brother/Bad Brother Iron born situation. With one being away, while the other crowns himself. The other comes back and makes war. Now, the Greyjoy brothers are trying to steal Daenerys from each other. Pointing to this theme.

Maris and Durran are team garth. While Elenei and Uthor are team sea power. Grey King taught men to sail, and lived 1000 years like Durran God's Grief. Suggesting to me, these are the two brothers.  Elenei isn't tied to a Tourney so far as we know.

She mention Jonquil which I loved, but not the Blue Winter Rose Hellibore. This also leads me to think there are two parties, not just one myth/maid theft being retold. There seems to be at least two main bride thefts.

The Grey King was a Fire Saint like Durran, but was drowned and reborn in Ice.

A Clash of Kings - Sansa VII

"Robb?" It was too much to be hoped, but . . .
"It was Lord Renly! Lord Renly in his green armor, with the fires shimmering off his golden antlers! Lord Renly with his tall spear in his hand! They say he killed Ser Guyard Morrigen himself in single combat, and a dozen other great knights as well. It was Renly, it was Renly, it was Renly! Oh! the banners, darling Sansa! Oh! to be a knight!"
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1 minute ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Sansa though, is connected to Dontos a drowned motley, and Tyrion a drowned motley, but also Peter Baelish. Which brings back the Bael legend. Which hers did not mention.

I think she mentions Peter Baelish being Bael-ish in one of her videos, maybe about the two brothers. I've haven't watched them in a while, so I can't say for sure.

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44 minutes ago, Phylum of Alexandria said:

I think she mentions Peter Baelish being Bael-ish in one of her videos, maybe about the two brothers. I've haven't watched them in a while, so I can't say for sure.

It could be they were all green team, as Garth was. Garth was reborn every year though. So maybe when the brothers each had a rebirth moment, one went to fire, one went to ice.

Im watching her other videos but a lot to take in atm. 

 
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7 hours ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Sandor maybe, idk about Cregor. Florian didn't sound crazy. The Hound is a Florian type figure to Sansa, and is ugly. Sandor is also never called Ser, unlike Dontos and Gregor.

Florian wasn’t highborn or a knight (if his story predates the Andals).

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