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Knight of the Laughing Tree Theory


Crona

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GEORGE R. R. MARTIN: It’s an obscenity to go into somebody’s mind. So Bran may be responsible for Hodor’s simplicity, due to going into his mind so powerfully that it rippled back through time. The explanation of Bran’s powers, the whole question of time and causality—can we affect the past? Is time a river you can only sail one way or an ocean that can be affected wherever you drop into it? These are issues I want to explore in the book -Fire Cannot Kill A Dragon (James Hibberd)

Hello everyone, 

I propose in this thread that the Knight of the Laughing Tree was Howland Reed skinchanged by Bran. Shout out to @LynnS for making a thread earlier about the Knight of the Laughing Tree identity. This is just a theory and I am not sure if its correct or not

How did Howland Reed actually defeat the knights?  Well the gods helped him:

"Whoever he was, the old gods gave strength to his arm."

"And so the little crannogman's prayer was answered . . . by the green men, or the old gods, or the children of the forest, who can say?"

The strength came from Bran, the Old Gods, skinchanging Howland Reed. We can observe this in Hodor when Bran skinchanges him and Hodor is able to to do things that he was not able to before:

"HOOOOOODOOOOOOOR!" the stableboy screamed as lightning filled the sky again, and even Jojen was shouting now, shouting at Bran and Meera to shut him up.

"Be quiet!" Bran said in a shrill scared voice, reaching up uselessly for Hodor's leg as he crashed past, reaching, reaching.

Hodor staggered, and closed his mouth. He shook his head slowly from side to side, sank back to the floor, and sat crosslegged. When the thunder boomed, he scarcely seemed to hear it. The four of them sat in the dark tower, scarce daring to breathe.

Another passage:

"Hoooodor" came a whimper, from somewhere down below.

And suddenly he was not Bran, the broken boy crawling through the snow, suddenly he was Hodor halfway down the hill, with the wight raking at his eyes. Roaring, he came lurching to his feet, throwing the thing violently aside. It went to one knee, began to rise again. Bran ripped Hodor's longsword from his belt. Deep inside he could hear poor Hodor whimpering still, but outside he was seven feet of fury with old iron in his hand. He raised the sword and brought it down upon the dead man, grunting as the blade sheared through wet wool and rusted mail and rotted leather, biting deep into the bones and flesh beneath. "HODOR!" he bellowed, and slashed again. This time he took the wight's head off at the neck, and for half a moment he exulted … until a pair of dead hands came groping blindly for his throat.

Howland did pray for the for the old gods to give him strength:

but before he slept he knelt on the lakeshore, looking across the water to where the Isle of Faces would be, and said a prayer to the old gods of north and Neck . . .

Bran does answer prayers:

"Father." Bran's voice was a whisper in the wind, a rustle in the leaves. "Father, it's me. It's Bran. Brandon."

Eddard Stark lifted his head and looked long at the weirwood, frowning, but he did not speak. He cannot see me, Bran realized, despairing. He wanted to reach out and touch him, but all that he could do was watch and listen. I am in the tree. I am inside the heart tree, looking out of its red eyes, but the weirwood cannot talk, so I can't.

Eddard Stark resumed his prayer. Bran felt his eyes fill up with tears. But were they his own tears, or the weirwood's? If I cry, will the tree begin to weep?

Another passage:

Lord Eddard Stark sat upon a rock beside the deep black pool in the godswood, the pale roots of the heart tree twisting around him like an old man's gnarled arms. The greatsword Ice lay across Lord Eddard's lap, and he was cleaning the blade with an oilcloth.

"Winterfell," Bran whispered.

His father looked up. "Who's there?" he asked, turning …

Another passage:

Theon found himself wondering if he should say a prayer. Will the old gods hear me if I do? They were not his gods, had never been his gods. He was ironborn, a son of Pyke, his god was the Drowned God of the islands … but Winterfell was long leagues from the sea. It had been a lifetime since any god had heard him. He did not know who he was, or what he was, why he was still alive, why he had ever been born.

"Theon," a voice seemed to whisper.

Another passage:

A leaf drifted down from above, brushed his brow, and landed in the pool. It floated on the water, red, five-fingered, like a bloody hand. "… Bran," the tree murmured.

They know. The gods know. They saw what I did. And for one strange moment it seemed as if it were Bran's face carved into the pale trunk of the weirwood, staring down at him with eyes red and wise and sad. Bran's ghost, he thought, but that was madness. Why should Bran want to haunt him? He had been fond of the boy, had never done him any harm.
 

Bran is able to see the past in the weirwood  and affect the past. We know this, because of Hodor's condition. Edit: What I mean by the "past" is the past that is current timeline. Bran cannot affect the timeline and the wierwoods do not have past or future. Bran was more akin to being "present" in Harrenhal. He certainly cannot affect anything currently.  From what I know.

Here's the passage of when Varamyr dies, he is able to warg his wolf from the weirwood:

 When he tried to scream, she spat their tongue out.

The white world turned and fell away. For a moment it was as if he were inside the weirwood, gazing out through carved red eyes as a dying man twitched feebly on the ground and a madwoman danced blind and bloody underneath the moon, weeping red tears and ripping at her clothes. Then both were gone and he was rising, melting, his spirit borne on some cold wind. He was in the snow and in the clouds, he was a sparrow, a squirrel, an oak. A horned owl flew silently between his trees, hunting a hare; Varamyr was inside the owl, inside the hare, inside the trees. Deep below the frozen ground, earthworms burrowed blindly in the dark, and he was them as well. I am the wood, and everything that's in it, he thought, exulting. A hundred ravens took to the air, cawing as they felt him pass. A great elk trumpeted, unsettling the children clinging to his back. A sleeping direwolf raised his head to snarl at empty air. Before their hearts could beat again he had passed on, searching for his own, for One Eye, Sly, and Stalker, for his pack. His wolves would save him, he told himself.

That was his last thought as a man.

As to why would Bran go to Harrenhal? Well, from Bloodraven's quote, he has been watching Ned and saw Bran's birth, and that Bran is a one in a thousand. I think it was very important for Bran to be born. During the Harrenhal tourney, Catelyn was supposed to marry Brandon, if she did marry Brandon then Bran would not be born. So he had to interfere to make sure he was born:

"Only one man in a thousand is born a skinchanger," Lord Brynden said one day, after Bran had learned to fly, "and only one skinchanger in a thousand can be a greenseer."

 I have watched you for a long time, watched you with a thousand eyes and one. I saw your birth, and that of your lord father before you. I saw your first step, heard your first word, was part of your first dream. I was watching when you fell. And now you are come to me at last, Brandon Stark, though the hour is late."

"Will this make me a greenseer?"
"Your blood makes you a greenseer," said Lord Brynden. "This will help awaken your gifts and wed you to the trees."

Also, Bran had always wanted to be a knight and this was his chance:

One day I will be like him. The thought filled Bran with dread. Bad enough that he was broken, with his useless legs. Was he doomed to lose the rest too, to spend all of his years with a weirwood growing in him and through him? Lord Brynden drew his life from the tree, Leaf told them. He did not eat, he did not drink. He slept, he dreamed, he watched. I was going to be a knight, Bran remembered. I used to run and climb and fight. It seemed a thousand years ago.

What was he now? Only Bran the broken boy, Brandon of House Stark, prince of a lost kingdom, lord of a burned castle, heir to ruins. He had thought the three-eyed crow would be a sorcerer, a wise old wizard who could fix his legs, but that was some stupid child's dream, he realized now. I am too old for such fancies, he told himself. A thousand eyes, a hundred skins, wisdom deep as the roots of ancient trees. That was as good as being a knight. Almost as good, anyway.

 

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It’s not so much that Bran reaches back to “effect” the past. Weirwoods don’t view time like “past” etc.; the past, present and future are all one. 

Any action Bran has a hand in, however subtle, large, or small, there was only ever one way it happened; this is and always was and always will be set in stone. This goes for causing his father’s reactions at the Heart Tree, and also when we eventually read of Bran’s part he will play in Hodor’s condition in the upcoming book.

As to the KotLT identity, I always preferred Lyanna and the theory that she prayed in front of a Weirwood and relayed the events with the squires to the tree; Bran has reached back to that time through the trees and was overcome with joy as he had already heard the story from the Reeds, and he actually smiles/laughs because he is now right there in the moment.

Lyanna literally sees this face, as Theon does later, and she resolves to become the Knight of the Laughing Tree, therefore the old gods indeed did give strength to her arm. 
 

Just my preference though. I love how people still bring their theories to this forum after all these years; it just shows the power of these books.

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17 minutes ago, Macgregor of the North said:

It’s not so much that Bran reaches back to “effect” the past. Weirwoods don’t view time like “past” etc.; the past, present and future are all one. 

Any action Bran has a hand in, however subtle, large, or small, there was only ever one way it happened; this is and always was and always will be set in stone. This goes for causing his father’s reactions at the Heart Tree, and also when we eventually read of Bran’s part he will play in Hodor’s condition in the upcoming book.

 

Hey thanks for the reply! I do agree, the weirwoods don't have a past, future or present. I actually debated whether I should include that bit but I think putting the past would easier to understand.

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I haven't changed my mind.  I'm still of the persuasion that Howland, with his training with the Green Men on the God's Eye, and knowing the magic of his people (i.e. speaking to trees) is the best candidate for receiving the god's help.  Tree-Bran is not confined by the normal conventions of time and we have a hint from Theon's POV in the Ghost of Winterfell; that Bran can talk to those who are predisposed to hear him.  Theon also sees the face of the laughing tree.

I'm still convinced that the greathelm that Meera uses as a soup pot was Howland's greathelm from the tourney, since he didn't leave any equipment behind.

Bran says he would be satisfied with only one day as a knight and I think he took it. 

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33 minutes ago, LynnS said:

I haven't changed my mind.  I'm still of the persuasion that Howland, with his training with the Green Men on the God's Eye, and knowing the magic of his people (i.e. speaking to trees) is the best candidate for receiving the god's help.  Tree-Bran is not confined by the normal conventions of time and we have a hint from Theon's POV in the Ghost of Winterfell; that Bran can talk to those who are predisposed to hear him.  Theon also sees the face of the laughing tree.

I'm still convinced that the greathelm that Meera uses as a soup pot was Howland's greathelm from the tourney, since he didn't leave any equipment behind.

Bran says he would be satisfied with only one day as a knight and I think he took it. 

Yes I do agree that Howland makes more sense to me as being the host for Bran.  Howland was the one that prayed and he was also the one who mysteriously prevented Arthur from killing Ned. I wonder if the same applies there too. 

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Yep, not only do I think Howland was skinchanged by Bran to be a knight of a day, I think it is possible that Howland left afterwards, puzzled as to what had happened, and so Bran was annoyed that he could not go on to win the tourney. So the next day he skinchanged Rhaegar, and for fun crowned Lyanna.

Lyanna's crowning was never Rhaegar's idea. It was Bran's, for fun.

He might try to "change it" and let it all play out instead, but might realize it would prevent him from ever being born.

Whatever the case, Rhaegar either sought Lyanna to figure out what happened, or kidnapped her to force "the wizard" to come out. TWoIaF makes it sound like Rhaegar was desperate to find a way to stop the winter while Aerys was relying on pyromancers, and somehow his journey ended with Lyanna's kidnapping.

I also think I know what the following really means:

Quote

the Knight of the Laughing Tree spoke in a booming voice through his helm, saying, "Teach your squires honor, that shall be ransom enough"

But can't talk about it on this forum since it's books-only. The remembered line is probably distorted, as people likely didn't understand what was actually said, so it was retold as Meera told it.

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3 hours ago, Crona said:

Yes I do agree that Howland makes more sense to me as being the host for Bran.  Howland was the one that prayed and he was also the one who mysteriously prevented Arthur from killing Ned. I wonder if the same applies there too. 

I think Bran skinchanging Hodor when they are attacked by wights informs what happened to Howland. This isn't typical of how Bran usually skinchanges Hodor without his consent.  The situation is dire and all is about to be lost when Bran hears Hodor whimper, a cry for help and instantly Bran finds himself in Hodor without making a conscious decision to do that.  Hodor/Bran is immediately supercharged and fearless.  Strength is given to Hodor's arm in a manner of speaking.

So it does seem possible to me that Howland or even the Green Men can act as avatars for the gods.  

 

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1 hour ago, Egged said:

Yep, not only do I think Howland was skinchanged by Bran to be a knight of a day, I think it is possible that Howland left afterwards, puzzled as to what had happened, and so Bran was annoyed that he could not go on to win the tourney. So the next day he skinchanged Rhaegar, and for fun crowned Lyanna.

Lyanna's crowning was never Rhaegar's idea. It was Bran's, for fun.

He might try to "change it" and let it all play out instead, but might realize it would prevent him from ever being born.

Whatever the case, Rhaegar either sought Lyanna to figure out what happened, or kidnapped her to force "the wizard" to come out. TWoIaF makes it sound like Rhaegar was desperate to find a way to stop the winter while Aerys was relying on pyromancers, and somehow his journey ended with Lyanna's kidnapping.

 

Yes, I do think Rhaegar crowning Lyanna was due to the KoLT actions, perhaps they did meet and Bran had told him that Lyanna would birth his prince that was promised - which he thought was Aegon. There is still a lot of analysis left to do. Regardless, if this theory is true, Bran did break Rhaegar's intentions of bringing the realm together and instead caused more issues between the families. 

 

2 hours ago, Egged said:

 

I also think I know what the following really means:

But can't talk about it on this forum since it's books-only. The remembered line is probably distorted, as people likely didn't understand what was actually said, so it was retold as Meera told it.

I am really interested in knowing what honor means here, could you put it under spoilers or send a message to me? lol

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2 hours ago, Egged said:

But can't talk about it on this forum since it's books-only. The remembered line is probably distorted, as people likely didn't understand what was actually said, so it was retold as Meera told it.

I noticed that you made a smarty-pants remark on my thread as well.  So you get the farty-boy award today,

 

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2 minutes ago, LynnS said:

I think Bran skinchanging Hodor when they are attacked by wights informs what happened to Howland. This isn't typical of how Bran usually skinchanges Hodor without his consent.  The situation is dire and all is about to be lost when Bran hears Hodor whimper, a cry for help and instantly Bran finds himself in Hodor without making a conscious decision to do that.  Hodor/Bran is immediately supercharged and fearless.  Strength is given to Hodor's arm in a manner of speaking.

So it does seem possible to me that Howland or even the Green Men can act as avatars for the gods.  

 

Perhaps that is the point of the Order of the Green Men? That they are avatars of the "Old Gods." I actually like this theory 

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6 minutes ago, Crona said:

Perhaps that is the point of the Order of the Green Men? That they are avatars of the "Old Gods." I actually like this theory 

We still don't know what they are or how formidable they can be.  Maybe we are getting a hint of that with Hodor at BR's cave.  What sort of training or magiks did Howland learn from them?

The Starks offer to help Howland if he wants to avenge himself in the joust.  Benjen offers to find armor for him.  But he doesn't give them an answer.  He prays to the old gods on the shore of the God's Eye Lake.  It looks to me like he did give them an answer in the morning and Benjen found him armor and Lyanna with her knowledge of horses, found him a good mount.

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26 minutes ago, Crona said:

I am really interested in knowing what honor means here, could you put it under spoilers or send a message to me? lol

He's attempting to use reductio ad absurdum, I believe, but he isn't any good at it.

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@Crona @LynnS @Egged

Geez, it’s been a while since I’ve stepped into discussions on this topic. Forgive me if I’m rusty.

I sincerely believe though, with the utmost respect, that due to having too much “time” on our hands, we’ve let our minds run too far from reasonable theorising with Bran. We really have to ask ourselves, what does giving Bran that much power do to the story? It must then be apparent that he can simply skinchange whom he pleases at will, like a god. GRRM stated we won’t see any gods in the story; however, the power that is granted to him here is that as of a god, no?

With this power, there’s no story really if Bran can do this. Yes, he is a part of the old gods, and yes, he will be an almighty greenseer; and yes, I even fully agree he can reach through time to an event and his presence can be felt and he can literally play some part. But, we have to find some limit within this, lest the story become absurd.

Take the movie Interstellar for example. Great movie. Now Cooper was always Murph’s Ghost, using gravity to relay a message from the Tesseract (the Weirnet?). There was never any other way that happened. But Nolan couldn’t write it that Cooper could simply just appear and talk to Murph, or have him with too much power or it renders the story ludicrous. The way it plays out leaves the viewer scratching his head and theorising for years, but if Cooper had too much power with his meddling with “time”, the story would lose something, and fans of it would lose interest.

I believe GRRM hasn’t taken us this far to hand Bran this much power because instead of fans theorising over the story as a whole forever, a lot of fans will have left the party by then, thinking, ‘well if Bran did that, he must’ve maneuvered everything into place’; or, why didn’t he just skinchange the people at his father’s beheading?’, or skinchange his father himself?

GRRM has to tread delicately with this power, so I believe it must be subtle instances, like we see when he talks to Ned at the Heart Tree twice so far. Two reactions by Ned I’m certain Bran was the cause of through the tree.

Personally, I believe Rhaegar was driven by political interest at Harrenhal at first, but always had the PTWP Prophecy in mind as that was his life’s goal. I think he met Lyanna and it sent a thunderbolt through him; this was heightened more by unmasking her as the KOTLT.

He would learn that he needed another head as the dragon has three heads per his own belief, and he would seek for her once more as the story shows.

I personally believe that Rhaegar had extensive meetings with the Ghost of High Heart also, and she gave him cryptic messages of symbolism involving Lyanna so when he meets her, he is more drawn to her; Lyanna being the Knight only furthers his interest in her and ensures he tracks her down face to face.

I rambled a bit there, but I do think we have to really step back from the Weirwood forest and ask ourselves… is GRRM really writing a story that has Bran simply just skinchange people in the past to suit any need or whim he has? What does it serve for the story? Is it good or bad? I believe the latter as it’s too god-like and I think the instances will be more subtle.

As his power grows and Bran realises, he cannot change a thing, but he in fact is the “cause” of events he tries to meddle with, he will become spooked and disheartened. This is when his story will get real juicy and it may herald his resolve to return to Winterfell.

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43 minutes ago, Macgregor of the North said:

@Crona @LynnS @Egged

Geez, it’s been a while since I’ve stepped into discussions on this topic. Forgive me if I’m rusty.

I sincerely believe though, with the utmost respect, that due to having too much “time” on our hands, we’ve let our minds run too far from reasonable theorising with Bran. We really have to ask ourselves, what does giving Bran that much power do to the story? It must then be apparent that he can simply skinchange whom he pleases at will, like a god. GRRM stated we won’t see any gods in the story; however, the power that is granted to him here is that as of a god, no?

With this power, there’s no story really if Bran can do this. Yes, he is a part of the old gods, and yes, he will be an almighty greenseer; and yes, I even fully agree he can reach through time to an event and his presence can be felt and he can literally play some part. But, we have to find some limit within this, lest the story become absurd.

Take the movie Interstellar for example. Great movie. Now Cooper was always Murph’s Ghost, using gravity to relay a message from the Tesseract (the Weirnet?). There was never any other way that happened. But Nolan couldn’t write it that Cooper could simply just appear and talk to Murph, or have him with too much power or it renders the story ludicrous. The way it plays out leaves the viewer scratching his head and theorising for years, but if Cooper had too much power with his meddling with “time”, the story would lose something, and fans of it would lose interest.

I believe GRRM hasn’t taken us this far to hand Bran this much power because instead of fans theorising over the story as a whole forever, a lot of fans will have left the party by then, thinking, ‘well if Bran did that, he must’ve maneuvered everything into place’; or, why didn’t he just skinchange the people at his father’s beheading?’, or skinchange his father himself?

GRRM has to tread delicately with this power, so I believe it must be subtle instances, like we see when he talks to Ned at the Heart Tree twice so far. Two reactions by Ned I’m certain Bran was the cause of through the tree.

with, he will become spooked and disheartened. This is when his story will get real juicy and it may herald his resolve to return to Winterfell.

So I am not saying that Bran skinchanges anyone at anytime. I am saying he skinchanged Howland Reed once at the Harrenhal Tourney. Or that he skinchanged someone for that matter. I am not bringing up anything in the thread that Bran has not done or not capable of doing. We don't know the full implications of what occurred, or to what end, that takes more analysis of the text (however Bran's ending is out there). There is a possibility that something did occur, such as what happened to Hodor or the reason why Howland Reed has not traveled from the Neck.  But it is certain, that the birth of Bran was anticipated and watched carefully by Bloodraven/ children of the forest. You have to wonder why they had watched him and they watched Ned for that matter. 

43 minutes ago, Macgregor of the North said:

 

Personally, I believe Rhaegar was driven by political interest at Harrenhal at first, but always had the PTWP Prophecy in mind as that was his life’s goal. I think he met Lyanna and it sent a thunderbolt through him; this was heightened more by unmasking her as the KOTLT.

 

I am not against Lyanna being the KOLT but to me personally Howland Reed has more textual evidence. Like you said, that Rhaegar met Lyanna at Harrenhal, but he doesn't, he just sings a song that Lyanna cries to. Sort of like Cersei, it doesn't mean he thought she was special. Also, in the story, it doesn't state that Rhaegar found the KOLT, they found a shield. Sure you can speculate but I feel like this is too much speculation with no solid foundation. 

Edit: Also, one of the things that always bothered me about Lyanna being KOLT is the booming voice. Sure you can say the helm increased the voice volume, but surely the voice would have been a higher pitch or with a feminine tone. 

43 minutes ago, Macgregor of the North said:

 

He would learn that he needed another head as the dragon has three heads per his own belief, and he would seek for her once more as the story shows.

I personally believe that Rhaegar had extensive meetings with the Ghost of High Heart also, and she gave him cryptic messages of symbolism involving Lyanna so when he meets her, he is more drawn to her; Lyanna being the Knight only furthers his interest in her and ensures he tracks her down face to face.

Again, we don't really know how Rhaegar found out about the 3 heads or what it really means...there could be multiple interpretations of the dragon with 3 heads. So from here you are speculating that Rhaegar went to Lyanna because of this. But there is no real text that corresponds this. While I do believe Rhaegar may have met with the Ghost of High Heart, I think he found out what happened at Summerhall from her...but we don't know if this actually happened. 

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2 minutes ago, Crona said:

So I am not saying that Bran skinchanges anyone at anytime. I am saying he skinchanged Howland Reed once at the Harrenhal Tourney. Or that he skinchanged someone for that matter. I am not bringing up anything in the thread that Bran has not done or not capable of doing.

So far in the books Bran has never shown that he can skinchange someone in the past to complete fully-aware and fully-competent tasks such as control a person to ride a horse, challenge three knights, and unhorse them all. Bear in mind, there is actual coherent words spoken too and I’d imagine, conversation between tilts. 
 

You’re saying this is Bran controlling Howland?

Here, you have Bran control Howland to do all manner of things that he simply has never once yet shown to be capable of doing as a greenseer, or even before he was a greenseer.
 

By the logic of this theory, in essence you are basically stating that Bran can then skinchange whom he pleases in the past. How else are we as readers of your theory supposed to interpret that? 
 

If he can do this to Howland (very extensive skinchanging I may add), then he has the power to do it as he pleases no? If not, why just Howland? I’m genuinely curious?

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19 minutes ago, Crona said:

I am not against Lyanna being the KOLT but to me personally Howland Reed has more textual evidence.

How so when Lyanna has been confirmed as an excellent rider and half a horse herself. Even the WOIAF App went so far as to lay an Easter egg for us and say she was “practiced at tilting at rings”.

Practiced is a choice word that shows she is skilled in that department. Now, Semi-Canon or no, the App was created for a reason and its entries shouldn’t be ignored, especially when they read like that.

23 minutes ago, Crona said:

Like you said, that Rhaegar met Lyanna at Harrenhal, but he doesn't, he just sings a song that Lyanna cries to.

You speculate he doesn’t, just as I speculate he does. The text doesn’t show a conversation, but it doesn’t deny it either. The tourney was days long. What we know for certain is they were in the same hall; us theorists build from there with what we have and you believe Bran skinchanged Howland to be the Knight, while I believe Bran subtly motivated Lyanna to be the Knight and Rhaegar investigated and found her out.

27 minutes ago, Crona said:

So from here you are speculating that Rhaegar went to Lyanna because of this. But there is no real text that corresponds this.

From here I am speculating that Rhaegar declared the dragon must have three heads as per his own words in the text from Dany’s vision, which I believe to have actually happened:

"There must be one more," he said, though whether he was speaking to her or the woman in the bed she could not say. "The dragon has three heads." He went to the window seat, picked up a harp, and ran his fingers lightly over its silvery strings. Sweet sadness filled the room as man and wife and babe faded like the morning mist, only the music lingering behind to speed her on her way.

Rhaegar then leaves on a journey:

Nor could he be found in Dragonstone with Princess Elia and their young son, Aegon. With the coming of the new year, the crown prince had taken to the road with half a dozen of his closest friends and confidants, on a journey that would ultimately lead him back to the riverlands. Not ten leagues from Harrenhal, Rhaegar fell upon Lyanna Stark of Winterfell, and carried her off, lighting a fire that would consume his house and kin and all those he loved—and half the realm besides.”

I believe Rhaegar visited the GOHH once more and played her Jenny’s song, which she paid him with more dreams/visions, which gave him the resolve to finally follow his prophecy motivations, his heart, and finally take the plunge to pursue creating the third head with Lyanna.

Their first proper encounter after Rhaegar exposes her as the KotLT really adds to that I think, as it cements something between the two: respect, early feelings of attraction, love…?

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39 minutes ago, Crona said:

Edit: Also, one of the things that always bothered me about Lyanna being KOLT is the booming voice. Sure you can say the helm increased the voice volume, but surely the voice would have been a higher pitch or with a feminine tone. 

It’s been noted, sure, but she’s also described as so in the same story:

“None offered a name, but he marked their faces well so he could revenge himself upon them later. They shoved him down every time he tried to rise, and kicked him when he curled up on the ground. But then they heard a roar. 'That's my father's man you're kicking,' howled the she-wolf." 

So there’s precedent here for Lyanna displaying a decent level of impact from her voice, and yes the helm could have possibly accentuated that. 

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6 minutes ago, Macgregor of the North said:

So far in the books Bran has never shown that he can skinchange someone in the past to complete fully-aware and fully-competent tasks such as control a person to ride a horse, challenge three knights, and unhorse them all. Bear in mind, there is actual coherent words spoken too and I’d imagine, conversation between tilts. 
 

Keyword: so far. The books are not done yet and there is plenty of time for Bran to improve his skills, its building towards it. And from your post earlier, there are no past or futures for the weirwoods.  Bran is anticipated to be a better seer than Bloodraven (he has been waiting for a very long time), we have Varamyr who went into the weirwood and into his wolf, so you can skinchange from a weirwood.  Bran also describes how it was hard to skinchange Summer at first then it became easier. The same happened to Hodor, who is may not have his wits, but Varamyr almost had Thistle, who is a Wildling that doesn't lack wits. She was able to fight Varamyr off but if Thistle was willing for skinchange, but perhaps a more powerful skinchanger can.  Also, in the later ADWD chapters, Bran skinchanges Hodor in the cave and follows Meera, he kept up with appearances with saying "Hodor" and from the quote in my original post, Bran notes that the weirwoods cannot speak, not that he can't.  In the Bran chapters in Clash or Swords, he does look down at tilts and talks again about wanting to be a knight and participate in tourneys. I have also quoted in my original post of Bran controlling Hodor fighting with a sword which I don't think Bran could do in his real life, this why I connected the Old Gods giving strength. It was always in Howland, he just needed to more confident. 

22 minutes ago, Macgregor of the North said:


 

You’re saying this is Bran controlling Howland?

Here, you have Bran control Howland to do all manner of things that he simply has never once yet shown to be capable of doing as a greenseer, or even before he was a greenseer.

Bran started training in ADWD...and there are still two books left.  I don't see how its so far fetched that Bran in the future might be able to skinchange someone other Hodor. 

 

30 minutes ago, Macgregor of the North said:

By the logic of this theory, in essence you are basically stating that Bran can then skinchange whom he pleases in the past. How else are we as readers of your theory supposed to interpret that? 

You are saying this, I only said he did it once at Harrenhal, that is it. How you interpret my theory is up to you. There are plenty of things that are still not clear.  Why doesn't Howland leave the Neck, what actually happened to Hodor? These are probably the reasons why Bran can't do it often. And its a delicate balance, Bran can't always interfere because that might cause other issues. There are plenty of things that can stop Bran from continually skinchanging people 

34 minutes ago, Macgregor of the North said:


 

If he can do this to Howland (very extensive skinchanging I may add), then he has the power to do it as he pleases no? If not, why just Howland? I’m genuinely curious?

Again, you are saying this. I don't know if he can extensively skinchange or not. This is not my story, I don't know where things go. I just connected the dots in the text and it is Bran. Also, Howland goes to the Isle of Faces before the tourney and spends some time there which he may have learned knowledge and gained favor from the Old Gods (Bran). 

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1 minute ago, Crona said:

Keyword: so far. The books are not done yet and there is plenty of time for Bran to improve his skills, its building towards it.

Yes, but your own words below slightly contradict this:

55 minutes ago, Crona said:

So I am not saying that Bran skinchanges anyone at anytime. I am saying he skinchanged Howland Reed once at the Harrenhal Tourney. Or that he skinchanged someone for that matter. I am not bringing up anything in the thread that Bran has not done or not capable of doing.

When has Bran shown he is capable of skinchanging someone in the past to do as he pleases, as you have him do here with Howland? Nothing has shown once in the books that he is building toward that either.

Not even the blasphemous “adaptation” has him display this level of power. 

I believe there is zero textual evidence available that Bran is capable of doing to Howland what you are proposing.

And to clarify, if you give Bran the power to do that, then he also has the power to save his whole family with ease. I’m really, really struggling with that I must admit.

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