Knight of the Laughing Tree Theory

[Macgregor of the North]

8 minutes ago, Crona said:

Bran started training in ADWD...and there are still two books left.  I don't see how its so far fetched that Bran in the future might be able to skinchange someone other Hodor. 

If you give him the power to do what you propose to Howland, then he can also skinchange Ilyn Payne to thrust the sword through someone else, and not lop off Ned’s head, which is a much simpler task than skinchanging a small man to become a knight, ride a horse and defeat three knights who have already won tilts so far at the tourney.

See where I’m coming from? I’m not trying to rain on the theory or be problematic, but the very theory you are proposing is drastically problematic to the story we all love. 

 

[Macgregor of the North]

15 minutes ago, Crona said:

You are saying this, I only said he did it once at Harrenhal, that is it. How you interpret my theory is up to you. There are plenty of things that are still not clear.  Why doesn't Howland leave the Neck, what actually happened to Hodor? These are probably the reasons why Bran can't do it often. And its a delicate balance, Bran can't always interfere because that might cause other issues. There are plenty of things that can stop Bran from continually skinchanging people 

So if you’re only saying he does it once, and admit the ability causes issues for the story, then forgive me for being blunt, but aren’t you really just granting Bran this power “once” because it makes your theory more believable or possible?

Remember, just friendly conversation here. Bran’s arc was my main domain once in my old forum days, and I’ve been over this all a hundred times. 

[Crona]

15 minutes ago, Macgregor of the North said:

How so when Lyanna has been confirmed as an excellent rider and half a horse herself. Even the WOIAF App went so far as to lay an Easter egg for us and say she was “practiced at tilting at rings”.

In nearly all of Bran's chapters he talks about wanting to be a knight. Yes, Lyanna was a good rider but I think this is a red herring because its not nearly as mentioned as much as Bran wanting to be a knight.  And like Thistle, she wouldn't want to be skinchanged by Bran. This is why I believe Howland was the host, because he prayed to the Old Gods, visited the Isle of Faces, knows about Jojen greenseer abilities etc.

 

25 minutes ago, Macgregor of the North said:

 

You speculate he doesn’t, just as I speculate he does. The text doesn’t show a conversation, but it doesn’t deny it either. The tourney was days long. What we know for certain is they were in the same hall; us theorists build from there with what we have and you believe Bran skinchanged Howland to be the Knight, while I believe Bran subtly motivated Lyanna to be the Knight and Rhaegar investigated and found her out.

 

I would think someone would have noticed Rhaegar talking to Lyanna?  I would think it would showed up in one of the POVs. Regardless, you can think they talked but until I see something more, I think don't think I will believe it. What motivation could Bran have for  Lyanna to be the Knight of the Laughing Tree?

31 minutes ago, Macgregor of the North said:

 

From here I am speculating that Rhaegar declared the dragon must have three heads as per his own words in the text from Dany’s vision, which I believe to have actually happened:

"There must be one more," he said, though whether he was speaking to her or the woman in the bed she could not say. "The dragon has three heads." He went to the window seat, picked up a harp, and ran his fingers lightly over its silvery strings. Sweet sadness filled the room as man and wife and babe faded like the morning mist, only the music lingering behind to speed her on her way.

 

This is a vision, it puts you right in the middle of things to make assumptions, you should always look for a double meaning. I know the most obvious answer here is that he wants a third kid and I am sure GRRM knows it too. You could interpret at face value, but I think I will try to see where it fits best.  I am not saying RLJ did not occur (I actually favor this theory), but the conception of Jon is not as romantic as you may think. 

 

39 minutes ago, Macgregor of the North said:

Rhaegar then leaves on a journey:

“Nor could he be found in Dragonstone with Princess Elia and their young son, Aegon. With the coming of the new year, the crown prince had taken to the road with half a dozen of his closest friends and confidants, on a journey that would ultimately lead him back to the riverlands. Not ten leagues from Harrenhal, Rhaegar fell upon Lyanna Stark of Winterfell, and carried her off, lighting a fire that would consume his house and kin and all those he loved—and half the realm besides.”

I believe Rhaegar visited the GOHH once more and played her Jenny’s song, which she paid him with more dreams/visions, which gave him the resolve to finally follow his prophecy motivations, his heart, and finally take the plunge to pursue creating the third head with Lyanna.

Their first proper encounter after Rhaegar exposes her as the KotLT really adds to that I think, as it cements something between the two: respect, early feelings of attraction, love…?

 

We don't know exactly why he went to find Lyanna or if he happened to stumble upon her. Remember she is a good horse rider, maybe she ran away and sought out Rhaegar to help stop the marriage Robert? And this caused a misunderstanding and they had to go into hiding? They were almost a year out there, I am sure there is plenty of time to fall in love.

45 minutes ago, Macgregor of the North said:

It’s been noted, sure, but she’s also described as so in the same story:

“None offered a name, but he marked their faces well so he could revenge himself upon them later. They shoved him down every time he tried to rise, and kicked him when he curled up on the ground. But then they heard a roar. 'That's my father's man you're kicking,' howled the she-wolf." 

So there’s precedent here for Lyanna displaying a decent level of impact from her voice, and yes the helm could have possibly accentuated that. 

Yes, but Aerys had thought it was Jaime. Now I know Jaime was young and looked Cersei but I don't think his voice sounded like a teenage girl.  And the "roar" was part of the descriptions, all the Starks are described as wolves, you wouldn't say the wolf yelled, you would say the wolf roared or howled. 

[Crona]

32 minutes ago, Macgregor of the North said:

Yes, but your own words below slightly contradict this:

When has Bran shown he is capable of skinchanging someone in the past to do as he pleases, as you have him do here with Howland? Nothing has shown once in the books that he is building toward that either.

Not even the blasphemous “adaptation” has him display this level of power. 

I believe there is zero textual evidence available that Bran is capable of doing to Howland what you are proposing.

And to clarify, if you give Bran the power to do that, then he also has the power to save his whole family with ease. I’m really, really struggling with that I must admit.

 How was Varamyr able to go from the weirwoods to his wolf? Can you explain that? How did Varamyr almost skinchange Thistle? Are you saying Bran would not be as powerful as Varamyr? Again, you are saying that he can use his powers anytime, I am not sure WHY he is not able to continuously do this. 

[Crona]

31 minutes ago, Macgregor of the North said:

If you give him the power to do what you propose to Howland, then he can also skinchange Ilyn Payne to thrust the sword through someone else, and not lop off Ned’s head, which is a much simpler task than skinchanging a small man to become a knight, ride a horse and defeat three knights who have already won tilts so far at the tourney.

See where I’m coming from? I’m not trying to rain on the theory or be problematic, but the very theory you are proposing is drastically problematic to the story we all love. 

 

 I don't think you understand what I am saying. There is obviously something that stops him. I don't know what it is. I don't make up this story. You can see how see it fits.  

29 minutes ago, Macgregor of the North said:

So if you’re only saying he does it once, and admit the ability causes issues for the story, then forgive me for being blunt, but aren’t you really just granting Bran this power “once” because it makes your theory more believable or possible?

Remember, just friendly conversation here. Bran’s arc was my main domain once in my old forum days, and I’ve been over this all a hundred times. 

No, I just don't make up what I don't know. That's it. And should I care that you talked about this often before? I have actually read other books too and not in the fantasy, I think that counts for something. I have also read this series a many times too. 

 

[Macgregor of the North]

7 minutes ago, Crona said:

And like Thistle, she wouldn't want to be skinchanged by Bran.

Nobody would want to be skinchanged by anybody, especially a strange boy in a tree. You are assuming someone “has” to be a host for Bran to perform these feats; you seem to believe it with all your heart. Yet, there is no indication whatsoever that Bran will be capable of this amount of activity that the KotLT does under Bran’s control. Key world: control. You have given Bran control of  quite a large piece of history here, and by that reasoning, he can control the story like a god, something GRRM has given disapproval to.

“ I mean, look at the analogue of our real world. We have many religions too. Are some of them more true than others? I don't think any gods are likely to be showing up in Westeros, any more than they already do. We're not going to have one appearing, deus ex machina, to affect the outcomes of things, no matter how hard anyone prays. 

 

14 minutes ago, Crona said:

What motivation could Bran have for  Lyanna to be the Knight of the Laughing Tree?

Again, assuming Bran “has” to have a motivation for Lyanna to be the KotLT. He doesn’t; he can simply see Lyanna telling the Heart Tree at Harrenhal the story of how she beat the squires, Bran smiles/laughs, Lyanna sees it on the tree for a second (a la Theon) and she takes it as a sign. Voila, the gods lent strength to her arm and she became the KotLT.

GRRM has expressed delight in instances such as this. A subtle change in one’s actions causing something to happen in history. He makes fun with it. See his words below:

“In the Wars of the Roses, that you mentioned, there was one Lord who had been prophesied he would die beneath the walls of a certain castle and he was superstitious at that sort of walls, so he never came anyway near that castle. He stayed thousands of leagues away from that particular castle because of the prophecy. However, he was killed in the first battle of St. Paul de Vence and when they found him dead he was outside of an inn whose sign was the picture of that castle! [Laughs] So you know? That’s the way prophecies come true in unexpected ways. The more you try to avoid them, the more you are making them true, and I make a little fun with that.”

He’s talking about prophecies of course, but importantly he expresses joy in a character inadvertently being the cause of something to happen. This relates to what I’m saying closer than having Bran reach back through time and actually literally skinchange Howland and perform near heroic feats all day at a Tourney?

[Macgregor of the North]

16 minutes ago, Crona said:

And should I care that you talked about this often before?

Nope. You shouldn’t. What you care for, is your own choice, I am simply trying to shed light on your theory and lend a voice. Please do not take offence if the light I shed is against your theory, it happens in life. A lot. 

[Macgregor of the North]

37 minutes ago, Crona said:

I am not saying RLJ did not occur (I actually favor this theory), but the conception of Jon is not as romantic as you may think. 

I haven't implied it was; Rhaegar was motivated by politics primarily at Harrenhal I believe. He was always mindful of the prophecy though, and would act upon it without doubt as it has been his life's goal since youth, to fulfill it.

I think the attraction and feelings grew between him and Lyanna of course. Certainly. But her as a candidate as the mother of the third head was likely what drove his initial actions; this, along with with growing respect and attraction after exposing her as the KotLT and possible cryptic symbolic descriptions from the GoHH concerning a she-wolf, or possible laughing-tree Knight 

[Macgregor of the North]

45 minutes ago, Crona said:

Yes, but Aerys had thought it was Jaime. Now I know Jaime was young and looked Cersei but I don't think his voice sounded like a teenage girl.

But was it like a small Crannogman's?

[Macgregor of the North]

44 minutes ago, Crona said:

How was Varamyr able to go from the weirwoods to his wolf? Can you explain that? How did Varamyr almost skinchange Thistle? Are you saying Bran would not be as powerful as Varamyr?

What has it to do with Bran reaching into the past and controlling a character like a god for the best part of a day? Varamyr's spirit leaves his dying body and during his death, it inhabits all living things in the vicinity before it settles on One Eye. This includes normal trees and basically every animal near by; in fact, every living thing pretty much.

But why must this mean Bran can reach into the past and control a character like a god for the best part of a day?

Wasn't it simply to show that Jon will seek for Ghost when his time comes, as he does.

44 minutes ago, Crona said:

I don't think you understand what I am saying. There is obviously something that stops him. I don't know what it is. I don't make up this story. You can see how see it fits.  

It will probably be GRRM who stops him having this level of power, since he makes up the story:

“ I mean, look at the analogue of our real world. We have many religions too. Are some of them more true than others? I don't think any gods are likely to be showing up in Westeros, any more than they already do. We're not going to have one appearing, deus ex machina, to affect the outcomes of things, no matter how hard anyone prays. 

 

 

[Crona]

33 minutes ago, Macgregor of the North said:

“ I mean, look at the analogue of our real world. We have many religions too. Are some of them more true than others? I don't think any gods are likely to be showing up in Westeros, any more than they already do. We're not going to have one appearing, deus ex machina, to affect the outcomes of things, no matter how hard anyone prays. 

 

This is where the kicker is, because Bran is not really a god, its just people who believe he is a god. I mean you could say people think Varamyr or Bloodraven is god but in reality they are not.  Bran only slightly affected the outcome, he made the problem not the outcome. 

 

33 minutes ago, Macgregor of the North said:

 

“In the Wars of the Roses, that you mentioned, there was one Lord who had been prophesied he would die beneath the walls of a certain castle and he was superstitious at that sort of walls, so he never came anyway near that castle. He stayed thousands of leagues away from that particular castle because of the prophecy. However, he was killed in the first battle of St. Paul de Vence and when they found him dead he was outside of an inn whose sign was the picture of that castle! [Laughs] So you know? That’s the way prophecies come true in unexpected ways. The more you try to avoid them, the more you are making them true, and I make a little fun with that.”

He’s talking about prophecies of course, but importantly he expresses joy in a character inadvertently being the cause of something to happen. This relates to what I’m saying closer than having Bran reach back through time and actually literally skinchange Howland and perform near heroic feats all day at a Tourney?

I actually believe this quote fits my theory better. You can take things at face value like prophecies (3 heads of a dragon) and it may not be true. The strong willed girl with the great horse riding skills may not be the mystery knight, it may be someone else. 

 

33 minutes ago, Macgregor of the North said:

Nobody would want to be skinchanged by anybody, especially a strange boy in a tree. You are assuming someone “has” to be a host for Bran to perform these feats; you seem to believe it with all your heart. Yet, there is no indication whatsoever that Bran will be capable of this amount of activity that the KotLT does under Bran’s control. Key world: control. You have given Bran control of  quite a large piece of history here, and by that reasoning, he can control the story like a god, something GRRM has given disapproval to.

 

The reason why I got this theory is not because of some headcannon I had. It is because if you read GRRM story, he gives the answer in the text. For example when the deserter of the NW is beheaded, Robb says "the other take his eyes" which is true. When Varys tell Ned that there is a boy that owes everything to Jon Arryn, he thinks the squire but its LF. Same thing with KOLT, the old gods gave him strength, which is actually Bran because he's in the wierwood.

[Crona]

26 minutes ago, Macgregor of the North said:

But was it like a small Crannogman's?

I doubt Howland has a feminine voice, so yes it could be like the crannogman. Sometimes you just need confidence for a projecting voice. Also, there is a chapter when Bran is hosting notherners and he has to raise his voice, so there is also text that Bran can project his voice. 

 

12 minutes ago, Macgregor of the North said:

What has it to do with Bran reaching into the past and controlling a character like a god for the best part of a day? Varamyr's spirit leaves his dying body and during his death, it inhabits all living things in the vicinity before it settles on One Eye. This includes normal trees and basically every animal near by; in fact, every living thing pretty much.

 

So the weirwoods don't have a past or future, as we see in ADWD. He has to reach and he will see. Varamyr goes into the tree and SEEKS out his wolf:

I am the wood, and everything that's in it, he thought, exulting. ...Before their hearts could beat again he had passed on, searching for his own, for One Eye, Sly, and Stalker, for his pack. His wolves would save him, he told himself.

[Macgregor of the North]

3 minutes ago, Crona said:

This is where the kicker is, because Bran is not really a god, its just people who believe he is a god. I mean you could say people think Varamyr or Bloodraven is god but in reality they are not.  Bran only slightly affected the outcome, he made the problem not the outcome. 

GRRM still clearly states there will be no entity appearing, deus ex machina, to affect the outcomes of things, no matter how hard anyone prays. 

So no matter how hard Howland prayed, he didn't manage to get Bran to decide to force himself into Howland's body and control him for a day.

5 minutes ago, Crona said:

I actually believe this quote fits my theory better. You can take things at face value like prophecies (3 heads of a dragon) and it may not be true. The strong willed girl with the great horse riding skills may not be the mystery knight, it may be someone else. 

How can it fit your theory better when your actions of Bran are the complete opposite of what is described? He basically decides to force himself into Howland and write history for a day. At least with the Lyanna thing, it's subtle and mirrors the quote.

7 minutes ago, Crona said:

Same thing with KOLT, the old gods gave him strength, which is actually because he's in the wierwood.

Same applies to the old gods giving Ned the strength to turn and ask who's there? Or giving Lyanna the strength by appearing before her as a face, something GRRM has clearly shown us with Theon. He has never once shown us Bran can control a being in the past for a day to talk and perform the competent actions of a knight.

In fact, as we will see:

Spoiler

When Bran attempts what he will do with Hodor, that has Hodor in the current state he is now, it's clear that will go wrong and not be in any way fully under control as you claim he is with Howland at the tourney.

 

[Macgregor of the North]

11 minutes ago, Crona said:

I doubt Howland has a feminine voice, so yes it could be like the crannogman. Sometimes you just need confidence for a projecting voice. Also, there is a chapter when Bran is hosting notherners and he has to raise his voice, so there is also text that Bran can project his voice. 

 

If a child like Bran can do it, a fully-developed and fierce woman such as Lyanna can do it from atop a horse and within a helm.

11 minutes ago, Crona said:

So the weirwoods don't have a past or future, as we see in ADWD. He has to reach and he will see. Varamyr goes into the tree and SEEKS out his wolf:

No, he doesn't.

"The white world turned and fell away. For a moment it was as if he were inside the weirwood, gazing out through carved red eyes as a dying man twitched feebly on the ground and a madwoman danced blind and bloody underneath the moon, weeping red tears and ripping at her clothes. Then both were gone and he was rising, melting, his spirit borne on some cold wind. He was in the snow and in the clouds, he was a sparrow, a squirrel, an oak. A horned owl flew silently between his trees, hunting a hare; Varamyr was inside the owl, inside the hare, inside the trees. Deep below the frozen ground, earthworms burrowed blindly in the dark, and he was them as well."

He is dying and his spirit slips into every living thing as the body is dying. His last thought as a man, is to seek his wolf, as Jon does later, which is what the Varamyr chapter was written for, to show us this.

"Before their hearts could beat again he had passed on, searching for his own, for One Eye, Sly, and Stalker, for his pack. His wolves would save him, he told himself. That was his last thought as a man. True death came suddenly;"

[Crona]

4 minutes ago, Macgregor of the North said:

GRRM still clearly states there will be no entity appearing, deus ex machina, to affect the outcomes of things, no matter how hard anyone prays. 

So no matter how hard Howland prayed, he didn't manage to get Bran to decide to force himself into Howland's body and control him for a day.

 

Well actually Bran is going to be the king at the ending and he is already in a weirwood referred to as a god...soo, I think his quote can be left in the air.  Bran is not a god and he doesn't prayers unless it fits with his plans. Like I said I fit just connected the dots, thats it. 

10 minutes ago, Macgregor of the North said:

 

How can it fit your theory better when your actions of Bran are the complete opposite of what is described? He basically decides to force himself into Howland and write history for a day. At least with the Lyanna thing, it's subtle and mirrors the quote.

 Same applies to the old gods giving Ned the strength to turn and ask who's there? Or giving Lyanna the strength by appearing before her as a face, something GRRM has clearly shown us with Theon. He has never once shown us Bran can control a being in the past for a day to talk and perform the competent actions of a knight.

In fact, as we will see:

  Hide contents

When Bran attempts what he will do with Hodor, that has Hodor in the current state he is now, it's clear that will go wrong and not be in any way fully under control as you claim he is with Howland at the tourney.

 

When Meera tells the story, the issue is how the crannogman was able to get the strength to beat the knights. We are going in circles here. When Ned is praying to the heart tree, he is asking for Robb and Jon to grow up as brothers, this does not apply the same as with Howland Reed. And I don't know about Lyanna, I don't even know if she even believed in Old Gods. The key part is that Bran always wanted to be a knight (its in a lot of his chapters), and this was his chance, its not like the knights were Arthur and Barristan. Hodor retreats into himself in a space that Bran can't access but Bran has everything else.

 

[Crona]

57 minutes ago, Macgregor of the North said:

If a child like Bran can do it, a fully-developed and fierce woman such as Lyanna can do it from atop a horse and within a helm.

 

So when Bran says Hodor in Hodor's body its not Bran's voice....its Hodor's voice...

Also shes not a fully developed woman..just a teenage girl with teenage hormones

Edit: Another thing I never really got is what is the purpose of telling Bran KOLT story anyway? If its Lyanna, why didn't Howland tell his kids that? Lyanna and Rhaegar had ran off after the Harrenhal tourney so even if he told them it is Lyanna, it wouldn't make any difference.

57 minutes ago, Macgregor of the North said:

 

No, he doesn't.

"The white world turned and fell away. For a moment it was as if he were inside the weirwood, gazing out through carved red eyes as a dying man twitched feebly on the ground and a madwoman danced blind and bloody underneath the moon, weeping red tears and ripping at her clothes. Then both were gone and he was rising, melting, his spirit borne on some cold wind. He was in the snow and in the clouds, he was a sparrow, a squirrel, an oak. A horned owl flew silently between his trees, hunting a hare; Varamyr was inside the owl, inside the hare, inside the trees. Deep below the frozen ground, earthworms burrowed blindly in the dark, and he was them as well."

He is dying and his spirit slips into every living thing as the body is dying. His last thought as a man, is to seek his wolf, as Jon does later, which is what the Varamyr chapter was written for, to show us this.

"Before their hearts could beat again he had passed on, searching for his own, for One Eye, Sly, and Stalker, for his pack. His wolves would save him, he told himself. That was his last thought as a man. True death came suddenly;"

You took out one piece of the quote. He dies goes into the air then goes into the tree then he seeks out his wolf, here is the entire quote (Also I don't know why you are only attributing this to Jon):

The white world turned and fell away. For a moment it was as if he were inside the weirwood, gazing out through carved red eyes as a dying man twitched feebly on the ground and a madwoman danced blind and bloody underneath the moon, weeping red tears and ripping at her clothes. Then both were gone and he was rising, melting, his spirit borne on some cold wind. (Dies and goes into the air) He was in the snow and in the clouds, he was a sparrow, a squirrel, an oak. A horned owl flew silently between his trees, hunting a hare; Varamyr was inside the owl, inside the hare, inside the trees. Deep below the frozen ground, earthworms burrowed blindly in the dark, and he was them as well. I am the wood, and everything that's in it, he thought, exulting. (He is in the tree) A hundred ravens took to the air, cawing as they felt him pass. A great elk trumpeted, unsettling the children clinging to his back. A sleeping direwolf raised his head to snarl at empty air. Before their hearts could beat again he had passed on, searching for his own, for One Eye, Sly, and Stalker, for his pack. His wolves would save him, he told himself. (seeks out his wolf)

[Macgregor of the North]

1 minute ago, Crona said:

Well actually Bran is going to be the king at the ending

Are you talking about the books? Sounds like something else. Even if he is going to end up a King, it doesn’t mean GRRM gives him the ability to reach to the past and control people for a day as he sees fit. GRRM’s comment cannot be left in the air. He said it, and his books support that wholeheartedly. Even in the adaptation that you took the ending from, Bran wasn’t given that power. 
 

 

6 minutes ago, Crona said:

When Meera tells the story, the issue is how the crannogman was able to get the strength to beat the knights.

It wasn’t really the issue. Bran wanted a story about Knights. Meera says the KotLT may have been Howland, but even Jojen brushes it off, saying “or not”, claiming Bran has heard it a hundred times and probably knows who it is having been raised by Lyanna’s brother.

Yes, Bran wanted to be a Knight, but we can’t use that single piece of information to go against GRRM’s own claim that: there will be no entity appearing, deus ex machina, to affect the outcomes of things, no matter how hard anyone prays. 

There is nothing in any version of the story that suggests Bran can or ever will do this to this level of control you are describing.

Yes, Bran plays a part in events as a greenseer. Yes, to us, these are the past; even times when Bran is not even born. Yup, it happens.

The way you’re describing it though… nope. Can’t see it at all, and that is 100% a text and GRRM solidified quote based belief, not just my two cents.

[Crona]

2 minutes ago, Macgregor of the North said:

 

Yes, Bran wanted to be a Knight, but we can’t use that single piece of information to go against GRRM’s own claim that: there will be no entity appearing, deus ex machina, to affect the outcomes of things, no matter how hard anyone prays. 

 

I never said that Bran can control anyone in the past as he sees fit. YOU are saying that where in this thread have I said Bran can control anyone? I said it was Howland Reed, that is it. 

deus ex machina, (Latin: “god from the machine”) a person or thing that appears or is introduced into a situation suddenly and unexpectedly and provides an artificial or contrived solution to an apparently insoluble difficulty.

Bran as Howland Reed is not deus ex machina, because he is not providing a solution, he is making a problem. Without the KOLT, I doubt Lyanna would have been crowned nor would she have run off. And finally Bran is not a god, and he answers "prayers" as he sees fit in his goals. 

[Macgregor of the North]

16 minutes ago, Crona said:

So when Bran says Hodor in Hodor's body its not Bran's voice....its Hodor's voice...

Edit: Another thing I never really got is what is the purpose of telling Bran KOLT story anyway? If its Lyanna, why didn't Howland tell his kids that? Lyanna and Rhaegar had ran off after the Harrenhal tourney so even if he told them it is Lyanna, it wouldn't make any difference.

You took out one piece of the quote. He dies goes into the air then goes into the tree then he seeks out his wolf, here is the entire quote (Also I don't know why you are only attributing this to Jon):

The white world turned and fell away. For a moment it was as if he were inside the weirwood, gazing out through carved red eyes as a dying man twitched feebly on the ground and a madwoman danced blind and bloody underneath the moon, weeping red tears and ripping at her clothes. Then both were gone and he was rising, melting, his spirit borne on some cold wind. (Dies and goes into the air) He was in the snow and in the clouds, he was a sparrow, a squirrel, an oak. A horned owl flew silently between his trees, hunting a hare; Varamyr was inside the owl, inside the hare, inside the trees. Deep below the frozen ground, earthworms burrowed blindly in the dark, and he was them as well. I am the wood, and everything that's in it, he thought, exulting. (He is in the tree) A hundred ravens took to the air, cawing as they felt him pass. A great elk trumpeted, unsettling the children clinging to his back. A sleeping direwolf raised his head to snarl at empty air. Before their hearts could beat again he had passed on, searching for his own, for One Eye, Sly, and Stalker, for his pack. His wolves would save him, he told himself. (seeks out his wolf)

Nope, I am in the wood refers to the whole woods. He is every living creature in the wood, including all the trees. I can see where you’ve went wrong there. You literally take that to mean the Weirwood tree, like he’s went back to it after already leaving it. Didn’t happen. Also, to help here.

Definition of wood

 (Entry 1 of 6)

1a: the hard fibrous substance consisting basically of xylem that makes up the greater part of the stems, branches, and roots of trees or shrubs beneath the bark and is found to a limited extent in herbaceous plants

b: wood suitable or prepared for some use (such as burning or building)

2a: a dense growth of trees usually greater in extent than a grove and smaller than a forest—often used in plural but singular or plural in construction…

 

Yes, 'woods' is just the ordinary plural of 'wood'. If you walk in one wood, then cross the street and walk in another wood, you have walked in two woods. When you're in a wood, you can also say you're in the woods - especially if it's a large area.

 

 

 

[Crona]

10 minutes ago, Macgregor of the North said:

Nope, I am in the wood refers to the whole woods. He is every living creature in the wood, including all the trees. I can see where you’ve went wrong there. You literally take that to mean the Weirwood tree, like he’s went back to it after already leaving it. Didn’t happen. Also, to help here.

Definition of wood

 (Entry 1 of 6)

1a: the hard fibrous substance consisting basically of xylem that makes up the greater part of the stems, branches, and roots of trees or shrubs beneath the bark and is found to a limited extent in herbaceous plants

b: wood suitable or prepared for some use (such as burning or building)

2a: a dense growth of trees usually greater in extent than a grove and smaller than a forest—often used in plural but singular or plural in construction…

 

Yes, 'woods' is just the ordinary plural of 'wood'. If you walk in one wood, then cross the street and walk in another wood, you have walked in two woods. When you're in a wood, you can also say you're in the woods - especially if it's a large area.

 

 

 

So you are saying he died went into the air then went into EVERYTHING at once then goes and finds his wolf. You don't think he went into the air, then the animals, then trees then went seeking for his wolf. The key here is that his consciously went out in the air and looked for something. Also the tree in Varamyr's chapter I did not refer to the trees as weirwood, only for Bran's.

EDIT: I think I did mistakenly wrote the trees as weirwoods in a couple posts. I got them confused.