Knight of the Laughing Tree Theory

[Crona]

15 minutes ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Yea its weird. Excuse "oh to fit stuff there was no room to fit in the books"

Threre, I fit it in. Wasn't so hard. You had to write another book and create an app to charge people to get that? Yea ok

I mean if I was an author, I would probably do the same thing if I can get away with it from my fans lol 

lets say it is "semi-canon"

[AlaskanSandman]

1 minute ago, Crona said:

I mean if I was an author, I would probably do the same thing if I can get away with it from my fans lol

Lol yea but he didn't write ACOK when the internet was as big as it is now. Plus, Dany already tells us Rhaegar loved Lyanna. So why hide her name in Dany's chapter seeing a vision of Rhaegar. It would just follow the narrative she's already telling us. True or not as its a vision from people trying to kill her, it is the narrative she believes.

[Crona]

5 minutes ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Lol yea but he didn't write ACOK when the internet was as big as it is now. Plus, Dany already tells us Rhaegar loved Lyanna. So why hide her name in Dany's chapter seeing a vision of Rhaegar. It would just follow the narrative she's already telling us. True or not as its a vision from people trying to kill her, it is the narrative she believes.

That is true, there really is no need to hide the name Dany's vision. Dany thinks Rhaegar loved Lyanna from GOT. I don't see a reason why it would say "the woman he loved." Also, its mentioned the app is extra stuff from the World Book which is in the POV of Maester Yandel, who going with the narrative of the Lannister regime.

[AlaskanSandman]

4 minutes ago, Crona said:

That is true, there really is no need to hide the name Dany's vision. Dany thinks Rhaegar loved Lyanna from GOT. I don't see a reason why it would say "the woman he loved." Also, its mentioned the app is extra stuff from the World Book which is in the POV of Maester Yandel, who going with the narrative of the Lannister regime.

The Lannisters have every reason to smear the Targaryen name too. Its enough things that Im still suspect of the general narrative. 

[Crona]

 

This is also my issue with Bran being told the KOLT narrative. If Bran was to find out Lyanna was KOLT and Rhaegar fell in love with her and crowned her....it still could mean he could kidnap her later without her consent. Even if they were clearly into each other at the tourney...he could still take her later without her consent. It does not change the narrative. 

[Crona]

39 minutes ago, AlaskanSandman said:

The Lannisters have every reason to smear the Targaryen name too. Its enough things that Im still suspect of the general narrative. 

Now that I think about it, I think it does make more sense to me that he will be thinking of his children and wife when he's dying. Could be some form of regret of his actions because he thought he was fulfilling prophecy but it turned out to be something else. 

[Macgregor of the North]

5 hours ago, AlaskanSandman said:

We know GRRM is leading people for now to think Lyanna is Jon's mom. Thats what the main narrative has been saying since book 1. Rhaegar took Lyanna, raped her and likely got her with baby. This though, leaves no mystery to the book and who Jon mother is. Its literally the most obvious answer, and for an author thats very meticulous.

@Crona
 

You crazy kids. There really has been too much time passed. Maybe too much world building from GRRM. Too much words on page that you have all gotten yourselves so fixated on so much stuff that you just wish so much was real.

GRRM never intended this to still be dragging on. It was a three-novel-deal at first and would be done and dusted had he not kept on world building and making things larger. R & L = J was always the deal and he left the name Lyanna out in the vision in ‘98 because he still believed then he could uphold some mystery.
 

Yes, there’s an app, out in 2012. Yes, there’s in-app purchases that unlock semi-canon tidbits. SHOCKER.

Lyanna, the excellent horse rider was also “practiced at tilting at rings”.

That, my friends, is to further cement that she is KotLT, as though it wasn’t bang smack in your face obvious anyway… nobody had to pay for that confirmation. But… GRRM’s team are business-minded and will make money from this franchise each chance they get. Believe that. Please.

The fact the app says that Rhaegar’s final word was Lyanna, has expectedly sent the over analysers into over-drive, because they think… oh, it’s in an “app” (ha, an app!). That’s suspect as hell. Hmmm, must be something wrong with that. It’s nonsense.

If certain theorisers out there must entertain these crazy ideas, I can only imagine your only saving grace may be is that the reason GRRM is taking so long with the next two books is because he paid too much mind to that dumbass adaptation and the general response to it weren’t great ultimately, so he is busy rewriting his original works to surprise people.

While that may cause certain theorisers to raise triumphant fists when their ideas are proved true, there’s also a sadness there that an author had his writing hand forced to change things to please/surprise the masses. It would be an empty victory and one easily forgotten.

NOPE. I believe he’s a resolute fella, and no matter what crackpot nonsense pours out from every crack in the fandom, he’ll stick to his guns.

Yes, he’s taking a long time about it. But this is his legacy here. To last forever. It’s gonna be made sharper, more interesting and engaging, yes. But the same original simple core narrative will apply that he had early on. Else, what’s the bloody point? To surprise people? Hell with that. Just wrote your vision GRRM; in the end, all that matters is that enough people, the original lovers of the story and newcomers that support the laboured vision, applaud it. Which millions will. Many will be sad, but in the words of myself… well, that’s tough s**t isn’t it.

Continue to theorise though of course, that’s why we’re all here my friends! 
 

And of course there’s still mystery to the book. Else, why would countless souls still return here to discuss it…?

[AlaskanSandman]

53 minutes ago, Macgregor of the North said:

@Crona
 

You crazy kids. There really has been too much time passed. Maybe too much world building from GRRM. Too much words on page that you have all gotten yourselves so fixated on so much stuff that you just wish so much was real.

GRRM never intended this to still be dragging on. It was a three-novel-deal at first and would be done and dusted had he not kept on world building and making things larger. R & L = J was always the deal and he left the name Lyanna out in the vision in ‘98 because he still believed then he could uphold some mystery.
 

Yes, there’s an app, out in 2012. Yes, there’s in-app purchases that unlock semi-canon tidbits. SHOCKER.

Lyanna, the excellent horse rider was also “practiced at tilting at rings”.

That, my friends, is to further cement that she is KotLT, as though it wasn’t bang smack in your face obvious anyway… nobody had to pay for that confirmation. But… GRRM’s team are business-minded and will make money from this franchise each chance they get. Believe that. Please.

The fact the app says that Rhaegar’s final word was Lyanna, has expectedly sent the over analysers into over-drive, because they think… oh, it’s in an “app” (ha, an app!). That’s suspect as hell. Hmmm, must be something wrong with that. It’s nonsense.

If certain theorisers out there must entertain these crazy ideas, I can only imagine your only saving grace may be is that the reason GRRM is taking so long with the next two books is because he paid too much mind to that dumbass adaptation and the general response to it weren’t great ultimately, so he is busy rewriting his original works to surprise people.

While that may cause certain theorisers to raise triumphant fists when their ideas are proved true, there’s also a sadness there that an author had his writing hand forced to change things to please/surprise the masses. It would be an empty victory and one easily forgotten.

NOPE. I believe he’s a resolute fella, and no matter what crackpot nonsense pours out from every crack in the fandom, he’ll stick to his guns.

Yes, he’s taking a long time about it. But this is his legacy here. To last forever. It’s gonna be made sharper, more interesting and engaging, yes. But the same original simple core narrative will apply that he had early on. Else, what’s the bloody point? To surprise people? Hell with that. Just wrote your vision GRRM; in the end, all that matters is that enough people, the original lovers of the story and newcomers that support the laboured vision, applaud it. Which millions will. Many will be sad, but in the words of myself… well, that’s tough s**t isn’t it.

Continue to theorise though of course, that’s why we’re all here my friends! 
 

And of course there’s still mystery to the book. Else, why would countless souls still return here to discuss it…?

I don't like in game purchases or in app purchases, or the whole business practice, but that's just me.

GRRM has also said that only 1 or 2 people have figured out the books and that most people wouldn't believe them.

Lyanna plus Rhaegar equalling Jon is not unbelievable. Its been hand fed to us from Book 1. Its expected, and when its expected, its not a surprise. 

Since most theories have got it all wrong, that means most people are going to stick to their theories. Cause the show did what everyone already thought. (I can't list everything, but they even went fast and loose with Coldhands. Why? Cause a lot of fans thought it and wanted it) The show was the biggest fan fiction there is and even Elio and Linda question it. Like Bran's ending, despite the show people saying GRRM told them, Elio and Linda aren't sure they believe Bran will have the same ending. IF, GRRM would say one thing about Bran for the show, and do another in the book. Then he can do it with other things too

[AlaskanSandman]

1 hour ago, Macgregor of the North said:

Lyanna, the excellent horse rider was also “practiced at tilting at rings”.

Tilting rings. Hardly the same resistance as hitting a 200lb man in plate mail off his horse

Thats like saying just cause a girl can hit a punching bag right, that shes going to hit a moving target that is punching back. 

[AlaskanSandman]

Im just picturing Rhonda Rousey talking that smack that she could take on Floyd Mayweather, cause you know, she fights too. All physical activities are comparable. Then she got her head bounced around by Nunez, who couldn't even take Mayweather.

I don't think Lyanna getting a stick through a non moving hole, is a qualifier on its own to her ability at Jousting. Where you need more than enough strength to hold it, but also enough to drive it into a man in full plate weighing over 200lbs off his horse, while he being much stronger, is trying to do the same to you.

 

[Macgregor of the North]

5 minutes ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Im just picturing Rhonda Rousey talking that smack that she could take on Floyd Mayweather, cause you know, she fights too. All physical activities are comparable. Then she got her head bounced around by Nunez, who couldn't even take Mayweather.

I don't think Lyanna getting a stick through a non moving hole, is a qualifier on its own to her ability at Jousting. Where you need more than enough strength to hold it, but also enough to drive it into a man in full plate weighing over 200lbs off his horse, while he being much stronger, is trying to do the same to you.

 

 

21 minutes ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Tilting rings. Hardly the same resistance as hitting a 200lb man in plate mail off his horse

Thats like saying just cause a girl can hit a punching bag right, that shes going to hit a moving target that is punching back. 

 

Do you remember when Loras unhorsed THE MOUNTAIN?

AGOT:

“Ser Gregor wrenched his shield into position, juggled with his lance, and all the while fought to hold his unruly mount on a straight line, and suddenly Loras Tyrell was on him, placing the point of his lance just there, and in an eye blink the Mountain was falling. He was so huge that he took his horse down with him in a tangle of steel and flesh.”

The Mountain is unbalanced yes, but he is not in danger of falling off; indeed, he is only struggling to keep the horse straight. He is still firmly in the saddle.

Soon after:

” Ser Gregor swung his sword, a savage two-handed blow that took the boy in the chest and knocked him from the saddle. The courser dashed away in panic as Ser Loras lay stunned in the dirt.”

Well, GRRM has shown that much more smaller, agile, and I suppose more feminine-resembling physically built humans can indeed not only shift monstrously large men off there horse and onto their arse, but they can also survive a swing from their long sword to the chest, albeit it with armour.

Now, a man that size should have crushed Loras’s armour into him and killed him, no matter how awesome you think Tyrell armour is. But no, GRRM lends strength to his lighter heroes, even against heavier (insanely heavier) rivals.

Now, please put away your own views on how us humans in the real world would manage in combat and comparing it to this story, and just enjoy the damn story will ya buddy! Geez.

 

[Crona]

1 hour ago, Macgregor of the North said:

 

Yes, there’s an app, out in 2012. Yes, there’s in-app purchases that unlock semi-canon tidbits. SHOCKER.

Lyanna, the excellent horse rider was also “practiced at tilting at rings”.

I’m sorry but a semi-canon app just seems to be a money grab and provides misc. info like the world book that won’t be applied to books. It’s just for fans to get more world building. I just don’t think it’s good practice to base your theory on semi-canon sources.  Also, I didn’t know practicing at rings is comparable to Loras’ skills 

[AlaskanSandman]

28 minutes ago, Macgregor of the North said:

 

 

Do you remember when Loras unhorsed THE MOUNTAIN?

AGOT:

“Ser Gregor wrenched his shield into position, juggled with his lance, and all the while fought to hold his unruly mount on a straight line, and suddenly Loras Tyrell was on him, placing the point of his lance just there, and in an eye blink the Mountain was falling. He was so huge that he took his horse down with him in a tangle of steel and flesh.”

The Mountain is unbalanced yes, but he is not in danger of falling off; indeed, he is only struggling to keep the horse straight. He is still firmly in the saddle.

Soon after:

” Ser Gregor swung his sword, a savage two-handed blow that took the boy in the chest and knocked him from the saddle. The courser dashed away in panic as Ser Loras lay stunned in the dirt.”

Well, GRRM has shown that much more smaller, agile, and I suppose more feminine-resembling physically built humans can indeed not only shift monstrously large men off there horse and onto their arse, but they can also survive a swing from their long sword to the chest, albeit it with armour.

Now, a man that size should have crushed Loras’s armour into him and killed him, no matter how awesome you think Tyrell armour is. But no, GRRM lends strength to his lighter heroes, even against heavier (insanely heavier) rivals.

Now, please put away your own views on how us humans in the real world would manage in combat and comparing it to this story, and just enjoy the damn story will ya buddy! Geez.

 

Yea, I remember Ser Loras cheating by using a horse that was in heat. Causing Ser Gregor's horse to act up when getting near the other horse.

Unless you're suggesting Lyanna cheated

[AlaskanSandman]

37 minutes ago, Macgregor of the North said:

 

 

Do you remember when Loras unhorsed THE MOUNTAIN?

AGOT:

“Ser Gregor wrenched his shield into position, juggled with his lance, and all the while fought to hold his unruly mount on a straight line, and suddenly Loras Tyrell was on him, placing the point of his lance just there, and in an eye blink the Mountain was falling. He was so huge that he took his horse down with him in a tangle of steel and flesh.”

The Mountain is unbalanced yes, but he is not in danger of falling off; indeed, he is only struggling to keep the horse straight. He is still firmly in the saddle.

Soon after:

” Ser Gregor swung his sword, a savage two-handed blow that took the boy in the chest and knocked him from the saddle. The courser dashed away in panic as Ser Loras lay stunned in the dirt.”

Well, GRRM has shown that much more smaller, agile, and I suppose more feminine-resembling physically built humans can indeed not only shift monstrously large men off there horse and onto their arse, but they can also survive a swing from their long sword to the chest, albeit it with armour.

Now, a man that size should have crushed Loras’s armour into him and killed him, no matter how awesome you think Tyrell armour is. But no, GRRM lends strength to his lighter heroes, even against heavier (insanely heavier) rivals.

Now, please put away your own views on how us humans in the real world would manage in combat and comparing it to this story, and just enjoy the damn story will ya buddy! Geez.

 

A Game of Thrones - Eddard VII

His courser was as slim as her rider, a beautiful grey mare, built for speed. Ser Gregor's huge stallion trumpeted as he caught her scent. The boy from Highgarden did something with his legs, and his horse pranced sideways, nimble as a dancer. Sansa clutched at his arm. "Father, don't let Ser Gregor hurt him," she said. Ned saw she was wearing the rose that Ser Loras had given her yesterday. Jory had told him about that as well.

"These are tourney lances," he told his daughter. "They make them to splinter on impact, so no one is hurt." Yet he remembered the dead boy in the cart with his cloak of crescent moons, and the words were raw in his throat.

Ser Gregor was having trouble controlling his horse. The stallion was screaming and pawing the ground, shaking his head. The Mountain kicked at the animal savagely with an armored boot. The horse reared and almost threw him.

The Knight of Flowers saluted the king, rode to the far end of the list, and couched his lance, ready. Ser Gregor brought his animal to the line, fighting with the reins. And suddenly it began. The Mountain's stallion broke in a hard gallop, plunging forward wildly, while the mare charged as smooth as a flow of silk. Ser Gregor wrenched his shield into position, juggled with his lance, and all the while fought to hold his unruly mount on a straight line, and suddenly Loras Tyrell was on him, placing the point of his lance just there, and in an eye blink the Mountain was falling. He was so huge that he took his horse down with him in a tangle of steel and flesh.

Ned heard applause, cheers, whistles, shocked gasps, excited muttering, and over it all the rasping, raucous laughter of the Hound. The Knight of Flowers reined up at the end of the lists. His lance was not even broken. His sapphires winked in the sun as he raised his visor, smiling. The commons went mad for him.

 

 

 

[Macgregor of the North]

6 minutes ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Yea, I remember Ser Loras cheating by using a horse that was in heat. Causing Ser Gregor's horse to act up when getting near the other horse.

Unless you're suggesting Lyanna cheated

Nope, just that a man of Loras' build was still able to shift a man the size of Gregor off his horse; therefore, Lyanna (or Howland since you and @crona are so certain of it), can do the same if they are "practiced" at the skill. Incidentally though, Howland (nor Bran skinchanging him) posses that skill, and it's never ever been hinted that they do, canon or semi-canon.

28 minutes ago, Crona said:

I’m sorry but a semi-canon app just seems to be a money grab

Of course it is, but it doesn't mean that time has been wasted making stuff up to populate the app; you do realise how ridiculous that notion is, don't you?

29 minutes ago, Crona said:

I just don’t think it’s good practice to base your theory on semi-canon sources.

This is your theory, and it's based on nothing more than that Bran the broken boy enjoys the notion of being a knight. There is literally no other solid evidence that Bran can skinchange Howland at Harrenhal to the level you propose. Zero. Zip.

If there is, please lay it out. It is, and has been on you from the beginning to convince us all of it. This is your party remember? Don't get disheartened that it has been attended by people who disagree with the reason you're throwing said party.

[Macgregor of the North]

5 minutes ago, AlaskanSandman said:

A Game of Thrones - Eddard VII

His courser was as slim as her rider, a beautiful grey mare, built for speed. Ser Gregor's huge stallion trumpeted as he caught her scent. The boy from Highgarden did something with his legs, and his horse pranced sideways, nimble as a dancer. Sansa clutched at his arm. "Father, don't let Ser Gregor hurt him," she said. Ned saw she was wearing the rose that Ser Loras had given her yesterday. Jory had told him about that as well.

"These are tourney lances," he told his daughter. "They make them to splinter on impact, so no one is hurt." Yet he remembered the dead boy in the cart with his cloak of crescent moons, and the words were raw in his throat.

Ser Gregor was having trouble controlling his horse. The stallion was screaming and pawing the ground, shaking his head. The Mountain kicked at the animal savagely with an armored boot. The horse reared and almost threw him.

The Knight of Flowers saluted the king, rode to the far end of the list, and couched his lance, ready. Ser Gregor brought his animal to the line, fighting with the reins. And suddenly it began. The Mountain's stallion broke in a hard gallop, plunging forward wildly, while the mare charged as smooth as a flow of silk. Ser Gregor wrenched his shield into position, juggled with his lance, and all the while fought to hold his unruly mount on a straight line, and suddenly Loras Tyrell was on him, placing the point of his lance just there, and in an eye blink the Mountain was falling. He was so huge that he took his horse down with him in a tangle of steel and flesh.

Ned heard applause, cheers, whistles, shocked gasps, excited muttering, and over it all the rasping, raucous laughter of the Hound. The Knight of Flowers reined up at the end of the lists. His lance was not even broken. His sapphires winked in the sun as he raised his visor, smiling. The commons went mad for him.

 

 

 

It almost threw him. So? It didn't. And by the time they're galloping, Gregor is no longer almost falling off - as the text shows; he is only struggling to keep the horse in a straight line.

It's little Loras's lance that propels Gregor from the horse. Wasn't it? Deny it, please... 

The horse reared and almost threw him.

Ser Gregor wrenched his shield into position, juggled with his lance, and all the while fought to hold his unruly mount on a straight line

suddenly Loras Tyrell was on him, placing the point of his lance just there, and in an eye blink the Mountain was falling. He was so huge that he took his horse down with him in a tangle of steel and flesh.

In fact, Loras's feat is even more astonishing as he's trying to knock off a man the size and weight of Gregor while the horse is zig-zagging.

 

[Crona]

1 minute ago, Macgregor of the North said:

Nope, just that a man of Loras' build was still able to shift a man the size of Gregor off his horse

Of course it is, but it doesn't mean that time has been wasted making stuff up to populate the app; you do realise how ridiculous that notion is, don't you?

 

I think @AlaskanSandman had given the quote that Gregor was having troubling balancing the horse…

The app is for worldbuilding only, what author would actually put important information in an app rather than the text? Lol

[Crona]

6 minutes ago, Macgregor of the North said:

The horse reared and almost threw him.

Ser Gregor wrenched his shield into position, juggled with his lance, and all the while fought to hold his unruly mount on a straight line

suddenly Loras Tyrell was on him, placing the point of his lance just there, and in an eye blink the Mountain was falling. He was so huge that he took his horse down with him in a tangle of steel and flesh.

 

 

Seriously? The quote says otherwise. What do you think not going in a straight line means? That he has control?

[Macgregor of the North]

Just now, Crona said:

I think @AlaskanSandman had given the quote that Gregor was having troubling balancing the horse…

The app is for worldbuilding only, what author would actually put important information in an app rather than the text? Lol

He provided the exact same quote that proves it was little Loras's lance that was placed "just there" that knocked Gregor off.

Gregor's supposedly wild and out of control horse couldn't even throw him off no matter how hard it bucked.

Guess who did knock him off though... Little Loras and his skillfully-placed lance, proving small-built people can perform heroic feats against insanely heavier rivals in this story.

What's better, is that this example actually goes against your theory; I'm sorry you don't like that, but those are the breaks.

3 minutes ago, Crona said:

The app is for worldbuilding only, what author would actually put important information in an app rather than the text? Lol

Did GRRM tell you it was strictly for world building? Just curious? I'd like his number if you have it. And this author is an absolute expert at hiding or outright omitting important from the text, so we can spend time figuring it out.

[Macgregor of the North]

3 minutes ago, Crona said:

Seriously? The quote says otherwise. What do you think not going in a straight line means? That he has control?

That the horse isn't going in the straight line. 

It doesn't mean he's not got a hold of the reigns, or that he's in the midst of falling off.

The already nearly threw him; it didn't because he was holding on with those massive muscles.

It's Loras's perfectly placed lance that eventually throws him.