Knight of the Laughing Tree Theory

[AlaskanSandman]

12 minutes ago, Macgregor of the North said:

It almost threw him. So? It didn't. And by the time they're galloping, Gregor is no longer almost falling off - as the text shows; he is only struggling to keep the horse in a straight line.

It's little Loras's lance that propels Gregor from the horse. Wasn't it? Deny it, please... 

The horse reared and almost threw him.

Ser Gregor wrenched his shield into position, juggled with his lance, and all the while fought to hold his unruly mount on a straight line

suddenly Loras Tyrell was on him, placing the point of his lance just there, and in an eye blink the Mountain was falling. He was so huge that he took his horse down with him in a tangle of steel and flesh.

In fact, Loras's feat is even more astonishing as he's trying to knock off a man the size and weight of Gregor while the horse is zig-zagging.

 

I will deny it cause it clearly says he's struggling to keep the lance, horse in line, and shield. This is do to the unruly horse. Loras otherwise never stood a chance or he never would have cheated. Loras was also about to get wrecked before the Hound stepped in and saved his cheating arse. 

This is no way at all validates Lyanna's skill at arms. Nor her ability to unhorse a grown man with out cheating. And no, I don't think Howland can do it either, even if Bran is inside of him. Bran didn't make Hodor stronger, he was just able to use Hodor's strength in a way Hodor would'nt typically use it for. 

Using Loras as an example only works if you're suggesting Lyanna cheated in order to defeat the 3 knights. Which, the 3rd Knight might have picked up on your trick by then. 

Lyanna tilting rings is no more impressive skill towards Jousting, than some ones skill at a speed bag is to their boxing skills. Rings and bags dont hit back, and aren't charging at you. Imagine a Line Backer thinking he can take a hit just because he can pull heavy things behind him. The two actions are different enough that skill at one, does not equate to skill at another.

I will fully deny as much as I also don't think a Booming voice is indication alone that it was not Lyanna. Tilting rings is not enough evidence to suggest she was the Knight and unhorsed 3 grown men.

 

[Crona]

10 minutes ago, Macgregor of the North said:

 

Did GRRM tell you it was strictly for world building? Just curious? I'd like his number if you have it. And this author is an absolute expert at hiding or outright omitting important from the text, so we can spend time figuring it out.

It’s common sense? Why would GRRM expect readers to know about this app? It’s a pretty cheap thing to do. I have never read a novel that required me to read an app to know information for characters. It’s all just little Knick knacks that don’t mean anything. Not to mention its semi canon which he can change anytime.

[AlaskanSandman]

10 minutes ago, Macgregor of the North said:

It's Loras's perfectly placed lance that eventually throws him.

This isn't the best defense imo. Let me give you another example of a perfectly placed hit.

A little girl may be able to perfectly hit you square in the nose, and break your nose. Even if you are a 200kb man. That same little girl, no matter how perfectly she hits that 200lb man in the head, is not going to knock him out. There are weight classes in fighting for a reason, and why guys and girls don't compete against each other. Its not fair. 

Even Arya in the show learns she can't fight like a normal guy with her tiny size, and little sword. Itll never get through plate steel because it lacks the weight, and she lacks the strength. 

[Macgregor of the North]

@Crona

@AlaskanSandman

I would love nothing more than to parry and joust all day with you both, but the clutching at straws that's going on here on both your parts is something I've saw a million times and I know all too well that once a forum poster is set in their ways, they won't budge until it is written in plain text in the book, sadly.

Let's make a deal. This will be my second actually ; I have already had countless back and forths with a poster back in the day who swears blind that Bran is not the cause of certain events in what we class as "the past". They even disagree Bran caused Ned's reaction at the Heart Tree, twice. Swore it blind.

Alas, we resolved to meet back up when the book proves Bran's capabilities. And it will, mark my words, when it's revealed how Hodor came to be the way he is. That poster knows who they are and I have the patience of a saint and their time will come.

So, would you like to do the same? How about we all meet back up when it is confirmed who the KotLT was, or @AlaskanSandman, who indeed Jon's parents are?

How about we all face the truth when it is revealed, and I hope and pray that when that time comes, you hold your hands up if you're wrong, as I will if I am.

How 'bout it, cos seriously, I have work and I can't afford to spend so much time doing this at my work station lol , as much as I'd love to.

I'm sure you'll remember my name; just tag me when the proof is there.

[Crona]

7 minutes ago, Macgregor of the North said:

 

the clutching at straws that's going on here on both your parts 

The irony lol. No hard feelings here 

[LynnS]

28 minutes ago, Crona said:

The irony lol. No hard feelings here 

There is also this from Fire Cannot Kill a Dragon.:

Quote

GEORGE R. R. MARTIN: It’s an obscenity to go into somebody’s mind. So Bran may be responsible for Hodor’s simplicity, due to going into his mind so powerfully that it rippled back through time. The explanation of Bran’s powers, the whole question of time and causality—can we affect the past? Is time a river you can only sail one way or an ocean that can be affected wherever you drop into it? These are issues I want to explore in the book, but it’s harder to explain in a show. I thought they executed it very well, but there are going to be differences in the book. They did it very physical—“hold the door” with Hodor’s strength. In the book, Hodor has stolen one of the old swords from the crypt. Bran has been warging into Hodor and practicing with his body, because Bran had been trained in swordplay. So telling Hodor to “hold the door” is more like “hold this pass”—defend it when enemies are coming—and Hodor is fighting and killing them. A little different, but same idea.

Also this excellent analysis by Evita back in the day:

 

[AlaskanSandman]

39 minutes ago, Macgregor of the North said:

@Crona

@AlaskanSandman

I would love nothing more than to parry and joust all day with you both, but the clutching at straws that's going on here on both your parts is something I've saw a million times and I know all too well that once a forum poster is set in their ways, they won't budge until it is written in plain text in the book, sadly.

Let's make a deal. This will be my second actually ; I have already had countless back and forths with a poster back in the day who swears blind that Bran is not the cause of certain events in what we class as "the past". They even disagree Bran caused Ned's reaction at the Heart Tree, twice. Swore it blind.

Alas, we resolved to meet back up when the book proves Bran's capabilities. And it will, mark my words, when it's revealed how Hodor came to be the way he is. That poster knows who they are and I have the patience of a saint and their time will come.

So, would you like to do the same? How about we all meet back up when it is confirmed who the KotLT was, or @AlaskanSandman, who indeed Jon's parents are?

How about we all face the truth when it is revealed, and I hope and pray that when that time comes, you hold your hands up if you're wrong, as I will if I am.

How 'bout it, cos seriously, I have work and I can't afford to spend so much time doing this at my work station lol , as much as I'd love to.

I'm sure you'll remember my name; just tag me when the proof is there.

Well I just shot down one idea supporting Lyanna while shooting down another that didn't support Lyanna. So the likely hood of me caring enough to check back when the book is done is not likely. Im not debating who the Knight was, just the facts that are used to support or dismiss Lyanna as the Knight. Somethings work, others don't. Im not wed to any particular idea enough to care one way or the other though. Ill enjoy what ever GRRM writes. Even things he may do, may still be debated about as far as the logicalness of it. Like Bran ending the way he did in the show, or Dany ending the way she did. Some may feel the clues were never there to support such an idea, others feel they were. Whether they enjoyed it or not. 

 

[LynnS]

This topic will always rub up against long held beliefs and assumptions about RLJ.  At this point RLJ is canon to many people.  

[AlaskanSandman]

3 minutes ago, LynnS said:

This topic will always rub up against long held beliefs and assumptions about RLJ.  At this point RLJ is canon to many people.  

Facts

[Macgregor of the North]

2 minutes ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Well I just shot down one idea supporting Lyanna while shooting down another that didn't support Lyanna.

The only place that happened was in your own mind, my friend.

3 minutes ago, AlaskanSandman said:

So the likely hood of me caring enough to check back when the book is done is not likely.

Not when all books are done, just when the knight and Jon's parents are confirmed. You will check back; it's set in stone in our only timeline we will ever live through, you just haven't caught up to it yet. Much like the story we are discussing. The ink is dry, we just haven't caught up to the reveals yet as we are slaves to time, heading in one direction.

I'll catch you then though, mate, be sure of it 

[Phylum of Alexandria]

1 hour ago, Macgregor of the North said:

I would love nothing more than to parry and joust all day with you both, but the clutching at straws that's going on here on both your parts is something I've saw a million times and I know all too well that once a forum poster is set in their ways, they won't budge until it is written in plain text in the book, sadly.

Let's make a deal. This will be my second actually ; I have already had countless back and forths with a poster back in the day who swears blind that Bran is not the cause of certain events in what we class as "the past". They even disagree Bran caused Ned's reaction at the Heart Tree, twice. Swore it blind.

Alas, we resolved to meet back up when the book proves Bran's capabilities. And it will, mark my words, when it's revealed how Hodor came to be the way he is. That poster knows who they are and I have the patience of a saint and their time will come.

So, would you like to do the same? How about we all meet back up when it is confirmed who the KotLT was, or @AlaskanSandman, who indeed Jon's parents are?

How about we all face the truth when it is revealed, and I hope and pray that when that time comes, you hold your hands up if you're wrong, as I will if I am.

How 'bout it, cos seriously, I have work and I can't afford to spend so much time doing this at my work station lol , as much as I'd love to.

I'm sure you'll remember my name; just tag me when the proof is there.

Ultimately, I think that this approach is something that we need to take for all kinds of topics. At this point, we all have a fairly fixed perception of what's going on in the narrative and where we anticipate it will go.

Obviously, if posters are having fun and learning from one another, then it makes sense to continue posting and hashing things out. But if the discussion is marked by frustration, exasperation, or even just the sense of stasis after everything, of no change from any party....well, the posters can always agree to disagree and wait it out.

Such an approach is certainly better than to develop animosity or a bad faith dynamic, which I sense has developed among some commenters (not on this particular thread, I don't think).

[AlaskanSandman]

3 minutes ago, Macgregor of the North said:

The only place that happened was in your own mind, my friend.

Not when all books are done, just when the knight and Jon's parents are confirmed. You will check back; it's set in stone in our only timeline we will ever live through, you just haven't caught up to it yet. Much like the story we are discussing. The ink is dry, we just haven't caught up to the reveals yet as we are slaves to time, heading in one direction.

I'll catch you then though, mate, be sure of it 

Ive seen fortune tellers do better than that prediction haha What if some one passes away? I hope you don't make bets in Vegas with that same bravado and reasoning . And no, pretty sure I disagreed with one and supported another in writing on this forum. It transcended from my mind, to my fingers, to the page. Like magic.

[LynnS]

5 minutes ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Facts

I don't know what you mean by that but my experience is that resistance is futile.  Most people want an answer, they want closure.  The unanswered questions drive people crazy.  RLJ provides answers to the Tree Knight. the prophecy and Jon's parentage  and Lyanna's disappearance.  Very few people want to open that up to further inquiry.  The problem as I see it is that there are so many blank pages in this story that the reader can write whatever they want into it.

So when something like George's comments about time and causality or the fact that winter roses are toxic or when assumptions about the prophecy prove to be questionable; it meets with hard resistance.

I've come to think that there is no changing anyone's mind. If someone is interested in talking about it, then fine but otherwise it creates mayhem.  

[Macgregor of the North]

1 minute ago, Phylum of Alexandria said:

Such an approach is certainly better than to develop animosity or a bad faith dynamic, which I sense has developed among some commenters (not on this particular thread, I don't think).

Agreed. I've seen it all before and it's ugly. There is absolutely no animosity on this thread, you're correct. A very healthy stalemate, but all the same, no ill wills intended.

[AlaskanSandman]

Just now, LynnS said:

I don't know what you mean by that but my experience is that resistance is futile.  Most people want an answer, they want closure.  The unanswered questions drive people crazy.  RLJ provides answers to the Tree Knight. the prophecy and Jon's parentage  and Lyanna's disappearance.  Very few people want to open that up to further inquiry.  The problem as I see it is that there are so many blank pages in this story that the reader can write whatever they want into it.

So when something like George's comments about time and causality or the fact that winter roses are toxic or when assumptions about the prophecy prove to be questionable; it meets with hard resistance.

I've come to think that there is no changing anyone's mind. If someone is interested in talking about it, then fine but otherwise it creates mayhem.  

Ok, let me try this again.

Quote

 At this point RLJ is canon to many people.  

Fact. Yes, many people think RLJ is canon now. Im agreeing with your statement. Thought that was pretty self explanatory lol No other statement behind it other than agreement with what you said.

[AlaskanSandman]

3 minutes ago, Macgregor of the North said:

Agreed. I've seen it all before and it's ugly. There is absolutely no animosity on this thread, you're correct. A very healthy stalemate, but all the same, no ill wills intended.

Speak for yourself, I'm finding you in a dark alley when the final book comes out lol totally just kidding haha I thought it was a pretty good debate

[Macgregor of the North]

4 minutes ago, AlaskanSandman said:

And no, pretty sure I disagreed with one and supported another in writing on this forum. It transcended from my mind, to my fingers, to the page. Like magic.

 

23 minutes ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Well I just shot down one idea supporting Lyanna

You wrote that with utmost certainty it seems. You didn't shoot anything down though, except in your own mind.

And by the same logic, my own theory (or the one I support) is in my own mind much more plausible than Howland being skinchanged by Bran at Harrenhal all afternoon to talk, interact and to perform heroic feats against three knights that neither he nor Bran have any training for at all. 

Until these things are proven/disproven, they exist in our minds only as possibilities. All we do round here is parry and joust to try to make the others see our vision; as you have witnessed already, it's a tiresome task that we are nearing the end of attempting to achieve.

[Macgregor of the North]

4 minutes ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Speak for yourself, I'm finding you in a dark alley when the final book comes out lol totally just kidding haha I thought it was a pretty good debate

That dark alley will be this very forum in the future. It's set in stone already; can't fight it.

Great debate!

[AlaskanSandman]

6 minutes ago, Macgregor of the North said:

That dark alley will be this very forum in the future. It's set in stone already; can't fight it.

Great debate!

Gus an ath thuras Beurla.

[Crona]

37 minutes ago, LynnS said:

This topic will always rub up against long held beliefs and assumptions about RLJ.  At this point RLJ is canon to many people.  

I actually do believe in RLJ but I’m still trying to figure out why and how it happened. But it just seems like if anything goes against their headcannon then they become super defensive. It just not productive at all and puts RLJ theory in poor taste.