What is going to happen between Brienne, Jaime and Lady Stoneheart?

[Odej]

Lady Stoneheart gave to Brienne a tough choice: she should take Jaime to face Stoneheart's justice or Brienne, Podrick and Ser Hyle would be hanged. At the end of ADWD, Brienne finds Jaime and tells him she found Sansa Stark, but Jaime must go along with Brienne to rescue Sansa or the Hound will kill her.

Brienne is a kind, loyal and honorable girl. A true knight. It's not like her to do such thing, but she's doing it to save Podrick. But sending Jaime unblinking to his death doesn't seem like something Brienne would do either.

Will Jaime figure out she is lying? Will she tell him? She keeps the lie, Jaime will face Stone and then? What do you speculate about it?

[Curled Finger]

Isn't finding out exactly what transpires between these characters precisely what keeps me waiting for TWOW...We had a conversation some years back regarding Brienne's honor at Pennytree where she lies to Jamie.  Brienne lying to Jamie much less by naming names is concerning for fans of our True knight.  Fairly early on in that conversation a brilliant poster brought up the curiosity of Brienne touching her sword.  Her report was that this action was the tip off for Jamie.  The action means danger or something.  I can live with my Lady Ser trying to convey some truth to Jamie.  We know she would not trade one life for another no matter what she has agreed to within LSH's very narrow parameters of choice.  Whew!

Brienne isn't alone and I have to think that by telling any lie at all her traveling companions were within hearing distance.   I don't think Brienne is capable of a really slick on the spot story.  My guess is this is what they told her to say for all her Jamie defending.  They want to see if he is moved by the statement.  Jamie is being weighed.  I hope Thoros is right there.  

They will head back to LSH, but where?   Last Jamie heard she was taking off into the Neck...wouldn't that be so interesting a place to hold a loyalty contest?  Yet the Riverlands proper have all these dangling threads of story happening from more Frey weddings to new management at multiple castles, broken men and BwB, the Blackfish and a pack of wild wolves led by a vicious direwolf--the Riverlands is where I want to see this go down.  LSH as a revenant of Catelyn Tully has some reckoning right there in the Riverlands.  Gendry needs to finish a conversation with Brienne.  

We have a Pod/Brienne set up with young Hoster Blackwood, sort of.   I can't really see Jamie having a squire by his side, but his situation has changed a great deal, hasn't it?  He is not the man he once was and could realistically use some help.  No, I don't see Hoster saving anyone, but I do see him trying to follow and get help for Jamie.  Let's boogie, Illyn Payne.  A monster such as Payne could be very useful in a hostage situation.  And there is Pod--it wouldn't kill Martin to let us have just 1 interaction, right?   With numbers more even I think Jamie and Brienne (and Hyle and Pod and Illyn..or someone) have a fighting chance against the BwB we saw with LSH.   Not a big company at all and I think Thoros could jump on the Brienne train and find himself again.  She is a marvel of bravery and courage and raw strength after all.  

Then again there may be a trick in all this because you cannot trust this author even a little bit.   This could turn into a thing where forces are joined for a while to complete level puzzles for beating several big bosses in the Riverlands.   Certainly the Freys and Lannisters.  Blackfish will get his queen back make no mistake.   He will likely turn up with a small force of his own and the Hound has to rejoin the story with someone in all this---why not a whole freaking group?  Indeed, why not Nymeria herself?   

Lots of ways for this meeting to come down and play out.  Look at who is in the vicinity and most likely to join Brieinne and/or the BWB.  

[Nathan Stark]

3 hours ago, Odej said:

Lady Stoneheart gave to Brienne a tough choice: she should take Jaime to face Stoneheart's justice or Brienne, Podrick and Ser Hyle would be hanged. At the end of ADWD, Brienne finds Jaime and tells him she found Sansa Stark, but Jaime must go along with Brienne to rescue Sansa or the Hound will kill her.

Brienne is a kind, loyal and honorable girl. A true knight. It's not like her to do such thing, but she's doing it to save Podrick. But sending Jaime unblinking to his death doesn't seem like something Brienne would do either.

Will Jaime figure out she is lying? Will she tell him? She keeps the lie, Jaime will face Stone and then? What do you speculate about it?

I'm kind of on the Preston Jacobs train on this one. George R. R. Martin seems to be setting up existentialist themes with both Jaime And Brienne's character arks. So Jaime can choose to be a better man than he was, and Brienne can choose to be a true knight. Lady Stoneheart seemed to have given Brienne a straightforward choice: sword or noose. Find and kill Jaime, or hang. But Brienne ends up choosing to save Podrick, which is why she screamed "sword!" 

I don't think Brienne will betray Jaime. But she may very well tell him the truth about the events that led her back to him, and he, in keeping with his own quest for honor and meaning, might choose to go to Lady Stoneheart and try his luck. 

[Mister Smikes]

3 hours ago, Odej said:

Lady Stoneheart gave to Brienne a tough choice: she should take Jaime to face Stoneheart's justice or Brienne, Podrick and Ser Hyle would be hanged.

No.  That was not what happened.  Stoneheart never asked Brienne to bring Jaime before her.  Stoneheart never offered mercy to Pod or Hyle or offered any conditions regarding Pod or Hyle.

Unless these are merely theories about what happened off screen after the chapter ended.

[Mister Smikes]

3 hours ago, Odej said:

Will Jaime figure out she is lying? Will she tell him? 

She will take the sword and kill the kingslayer.  Or her shadow will.  Just like in her fever death dreams.

Then her shadow will go after other reputed kingslayers:  Gregor, Stannis .... finally Sansa.

 

[Odej]

30 minutes ago, Mister Smikes said:

Unless these are merely theories about what happened off screen after the chapter ended.

Yes, it is.

[Mister Smikes]

22 minutes ago, Odej said:

Yes, it is.

So she screamed "Sword!"

Which means, in context, "Yes, I swear I will take the sword and kill the kingslayer."

Which mirrors and is foreshadowed by her oath to take King Renly's sword and kill King Renly's slayer.

Which she swore three times.

And which task Catelyn swore she would not keep her from.

And which is thematically emphasized by the name of the sword in question.

"OATHKEEPER"

And after she got cut down she said

Ha ha fooled you I didn't mean it.  I just want to bargain some more.  Now, about the terms ...

To which Stoneheart answered ....

(gee, what would Stoneheart say to that)

HANG HER!

And this time don't cut her down.  Did I tell you you could cut her down?  

 

[Mister Smikes]

4 hours ago, Odej said:

Brienne is a kind, loyal and honorable girl. A true knight. It's not like her to do such thing, but she's doing it to save Podrick. But sending Jaime unblinking to his death doesn't seem like something Brienne would do either.

Doesn't matter.  Human Brienne might not do such a thing.  But fire wights lose their humanity.  They are driven only by their oaths.  Or twisted versions of their oaths.  

[Egged]

Quote

 

Perhaps I did not want to be the only one who knew the dark truth of what had happened there, Catelyn thought. "Brienne, I have taken many wellborn ladies into my service over the years, but never one like you. I am no battle commander."

"No, but you have courage. Not battle courage perhaps but . . . I don't know . . . a kind of woman's courage. And I think, when the time comes, you will not try and hold me back. Promise me that. That you will not hold me back from Stannis."

Catelyn could still hear Stannis saying that Robb's turn too would come in time. It was like a cold breath on the back of her neck. "When the time comes, I will not hold you back."

 

Cat cleverly didn't promise. But Brienne will remember it otherwise.

Jaime kills Lady Stoneheart with Widow's Wail (much later).

Brienne kills Stannis with Oathkeeper.

[Mister Smikes]

10 minutes ago, Egged said:

Cat cleverly didn't promise. But Brienne will remember it otherwise.

I think they both remember it the same way.  A promise requires no particular magic words.

[Egged]

6 minutes ago, Mister Smikes said:

I think they both remember it the same way.  A promise requires no particular magic words.

In any case, LS won't let her go, breaking her own promise to Brienne, so Brienne will break her oath to her.

[Mister Smikes]

5 minutes ago, Egged said:

In any case, LS won't let her go, breaking her own promise to Brienne, so Brienne will break her oath to her.

Stoneheart will keep her oath.  Fire wights are driven by their oaths.

She will raise Brienne with the kiss of fire, thereby keeping her promise not to keep Brienne from her oath.

Then Brienne will take the sword and slay the kingslayer

First Jaime

Then Gregor

Then Stannis

Finally, she will go after Sansa.

[Lord Lannister]

I'm hoping for a power of love moment where Brienne and Jaime kill Stoneheart.

[chrisdaw]

For whatever reason, it's not really important why, they'll stick around incarcerated but alive until Arya arrives (probably using another's face). While Arya is there tensions within the BWB concerning the general over the top evil direction they've taken under the leadership of Lady Stoneheart will boil over and there'll be an internal battle in which Gendry will be heroic, Stoneheart will be destroyed, probably by Arya's own hand, and Jaime and Brienne will be freed.

[frenin]

11 hours ago, Odej said:

But sending Jaime unblinking to his death doesn't seem like something Brienne would do either.

She's given two tough choices. She's going to have to choose one. And Podrick is a child.

 

 

11 hours ago, Odej said:

What do you speculate about it?

If Jaime ever gets to face unCat, he's a dead man.

Any other explanation is just too stupid and convenient to consider.

Martin is not shy when it comes to protecting the characters he wants to live but Jaime meeting LH and walking away is Season 8 levels of bullshit.

[Curled Finger]

Brienne is instructed to bring Jamie Lannister--we are not told for what purpose.   Jamie didn't kill Sansa or Arya or Robb though Bolton sure threw a wrench in all of that with his parting quote to Cat.   While killing Jamie certainly could be a reason for LSH's desire for his presence they had conversations and she trusted him to arrange for her daughters to be freed.  There is an awful lot LSH does not know here.  Brienne was definitely not a fan until Jamie peeled back the layers of his personality to show her why he became The Kingslayer.   Nothing says he cannot do the same thing with Thoros or Harwin or any of the BWB remaining with LSH.  We know she wants the Freys and Boltons to pay.  The quote says nothing of why she wants Jamie Lannister.   She may again consider he could be leverage. 

Jamie can't die until he gets to do a bit of traveling and talking with Hyle Hunt.    I cannot wait to read those exchanges.   

[Lord Lannister]

2 hours ago, frenin said:

If Jaime ever gets to face unCat, he's a dead man.

Any other explanation is just too stupid and convenient to consider.

Martin is not shy when it comes to protecting the characters he wants to live but Jaime meeting LH and walking away is Season 8 levels of bullshit.

Why? Other than her BWB goons enforcing her crazy vengeance filled vendetta for... reasons... what threat level does she bring to the table? 

With the disappearance of certain BWB members since Beric's death or whatever you want to call it, it's not outlandish to say there's dissent in the ranks since it's strayed from it's original purpose. All it would take is her men deciding that doing things like hanging innocent kids like Pod is wrong.

[chrisdaw]

One of the points to Jaime here is that he's going to get tortured to shit, but come time to sort the BWBs out - that is have them give up arms and enter back into the king's peace, Jaime is going to forgive and forget (very probably his specific torturers), because he's going to prioritise the realm over himself.

[frenin]

12 minutes ago, Lord Lannister said:

Why? Other than her BWB goons enforcing her crazy vengeance filled vendetta for... reasons... what threat level does she bring to the table? 

Her crazy goons enforcing her vengeance filled vendetta for reasons. They are plenty against a knight and a cripple. And they have Pod to ensure Brienne's good behavior.

 

 

13 minutes ago, Lord Lannister said:

All it would take is her men deciding that doing things like hanging innocent kids like Pod is wrong.

And why would they be doing it then? Those who didn't agree with the new route of the BWB left like little Ned Dayne, those who have stuck around are the ones that agree with unCat, hell they were the ones who iured Brienne and triPod into the trap in the first place.

So, as I said. Too stupid to consider.

[Lord Lannister]

18 minutes ago, frenin said:

So, as I said. Too stupid to consider.

Just because you can't imagine it, doesn't mean it can't be regardless of your opinion.