What is going to happen between Brienne, Jaime and Lady Stoneheart?

[Mister Smikes]

Jaime's zombification has been foreshadowed since book 1, through Bran's visions:
"Their eyes glowed red as hot coals in a brazier. Perhaps once they had been lions, but now they were twisted and grotesque. "

and this

There were shadows all around them. One shadow was dark as ash, with the terrible face of a hound. Another was armored like the sun, golden and beautiful. Over them both loomed a giant in armor made of stone, but when he opened his visor, there was nothing inside but darkness and thick black blood.

"Shadow" can be another term for a wight.

"A grimmer shadow leads lus in his place."  (Thoros comparing zombie Cat to zombie Beric).

Bonifer also draws a connection between shadows ("shades") and wights and revenants: 

"I fear no shade, ser. It is written in The Seven-Pointed Star that spirits, wights, and revenants cannot harm a pious man, so long as he is armored in his faith ."

Jaime scoffs at this idea.  Later, Lancel invites him to repent and take refuge in the Seven, but he scoffs because the Seven will not give him a new hand.  So he fails to armor himself.  Shortly thereafter, a shadow appears to him at midnight ....

Looks like  Jaime made his choice, and now Red Rh'llor is going to give him that new hand.

 

 

 

[Apoplexy]

I really don't see zombie jaime happening. If it does, it will definitely ruin the books for me.

To respond to the OP, I think Brienne comes clean with Jaime before they reach LS. Jaime and Brienne likely formulate a plan to deal with the brotherhood. I think there are Lannister troops looking for the Blackfish. Jaime and Brienne will probably bump into one of these groups. Either ways, I think both Jaime and Brienne survive the encounter.

[Mister Smikes]

2 hours ago, Apoplexy said:

I really don't see zombie jaime happening. If it does, it will definitely ruin the books for me.

Someone's going to be unhappy no matter what GRRM does.  Maybe that's why he has so much trouble finishing.

Honestly, I'm fine with GRRM ruining the books for you.  I just don't want him to ruin them for me.

2 hours ago, Apoplexy said:

To respond to the OP, I think Brienne comes clean with Jaime before they reach LS. Jaime and Brienne likely formulate a plan to deal with the brotherhood. 

Then what was the point in lying to him in the first place (while creepily fingering her sword hilt)?  You are just making the story go around in circles, because you don't like where it is fairly obviously headed.  

[Odej]

19 minutes ago, Mister Smikes said:

(while creepily fingering her sword hilt)

Why is that creep?

[Back in Black-Snow]

2 hours ago, Apoplexy said:

I really don't see zombie jaime happening. If it does, it will definitely ruin the books for me.

To respond to the OP, I think Brienne comes clean with Jaime before they reach LS. Jaime and Brienne likely formulate a plan to deal with the brotherhood. I think there are Lannister troops looking for the Blackfish. Jaime and Brienne will probably bump into one of these groups. Either ways, I think both Jaime and Brienne survive the encounter.

I agree. I honestly can't see either Jaime or Brienne, or Jon Snow becoming like Beric or UnCat.

These are THE 3 CENTRAL characters that have to make a choice between their vows and doing what is right (and Sandor Clegane, who took no vows).

 

And this reminds me of the verse in the Bible where Jesus says, "Again, you have heard that the ancients were told, ‘You shall not make false vows, but shall fulfill your vows to the Lord.’ But I say to you, make no oath at all, either by heaven, for it is the throne of God, or by the earth, for it is the footstool of His feet, or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King. Nor shall you make an oath by your head, for you cannot make one hair white or black. But let your statement be, ‘Yes, yes’ or ‘No, no’; anything beyond these is of evil."
Matthew 5:33‭-‬37 NASB

[Apoplexy]

21 minutes ago, Mister Smikes said:

Someone's going to be unhappy no matter what GRRM does.  Maybe that's why he has so much trouble finishing.

Honestly, I'm fine with GRRM ruining the books for you.  I just don't want him to ruin them for me.

I didn't think/expect you to care about books being ruined for me. I don't know you.

26 minutes ago, Mister Smikes said:

Then what was the point in lying to him in the first place (while creepily fingering her sword hilt)?  You are just making the story go around in circles, because you don't like where it is fairly obviously headed.  

Zombies are not obvious to me at all. If you think it's obvious, more power to you.

[Lord Lannister]

9 hours ago, Mister Smikes said:

Why, then, promise such things in the prologue?

That's a disingenuous question. You could simply ask, why stuff nonsense about political intrigue, Westerosi feudalism, characterization and dragons in the other 95% of the novel if it's all about zombies? 

I'd say the most dull parts of the story relate to supernatural elements. 

[Lord Lannister]

47 minutes ago, Mister Smikes said:

Honestly, I'm fine with GRRM ruining the books for you.  I just don't want him to ruin them for me.

I guess it's all about you and your opinions. Maybe a discussion forum, where other people's opinions matter, isn't the place for you. 

[Mister Smikes]

12 minutes ago, Apoplexy said:

Zombies are not obvious to me at all. If you think it's obvious, more power to you.

There are many aspects of the story that I do not like.  But I do not pretend these elements do not exist.  Zombies, like dragons, are pretty obvious.

GRRM had an ice zombie return to life in the prologue.  It was, by normal literary standards, a taste and a foreshadowing of things to come.  Later, in a sort of twist, he revealed that there are fire zombies as well as ice zombies.  I"m not sure how you missed it all.

And when I point out all the clues, and death dreams, and foreshadowings regarding Jaime and Brienne, your only response is "yeah, but I don't like it."  Lack of obviousness is not the issue.  

When you have over 20 pov characters in your story, and you are known as an author who loves to mess with his readers heads, there are room for a few of them to turn into zombies.  Several non-POV characters have turned into zombies.  Then, a POV character, who we knew had died, returned an an obvious zombie.  What's next?  The next obvious thing is to mess with our heads, and have a character who we are not sure has died return as zombie, but the readers and POV charcters are left guessing. 

[Apoplexy]

39 minutes ago, Back in Black-Snow said:

I agree. I honestly can't see either Jaime or Brienne, or Jon Snow becoming like Beric or UnCat.

I think the magical elements are fine as a side element to the main story. It keeps things interesting. But if the magical elements take over the entire story, it will be a completely different tale than how it began.

[Apoplexy]

1 minute ago, Mister Smikes said:

Zombies, like dragons, are pretty obvious.

We'll have to agree to disagree.

[Mister Smikes]

1 hour ago, Lord Lannister said:

That's a disingenuous question. You could simply ask, why stuff nonsense about political intrigue, Westerosi feudalism, characterization and dragons in the other 95% of the novel if it's all about zombies? 

It is disingenuous to pretend I ever said it was "all about zombies".

My question was perfectly sincere, and you made no attempt to answer it.

1 hour ago, Lord Lannister said:

I'd say the most dull parts of the story relate to supernatural elements. 

Why did you ever read past the prologue then?   

[Mister Smikes]

52 minutes ago, Odej said:

Why is that creep?

Because the sword is named oathkeeper, and she took an oath, and we know what that oath is.  And Sandor is a day's ride away.  Except he isn't really because she's lying about Sandor.  

[Mister Smikes]

27 minutes ago, Lord Lannister said:

I guess it's all about you and your opinions. Maybe a discussion forum, where other people's opinions matter, isn't the place for you. 

What is this?  I thought a discussion is what we were having.  I never told anyone else they should go away.  But it sure sounds like you just told me I should.

And ultimately, our opinions don't matter.  GRRM's opinions do.  I'm not trying to write fan fiction.  I'm just trying to guess where the story is headed.  Based on evidence, clues, and foreshadowings.

And when I point out all these clues, people seem to say (in effect): no, we don't like that; go away and leave us alone.  And I guess I'll eventually have to do that, if none of you want to engage with actual textual evidence.

[Odej]

1 hour ago, Mister Smikes said:

The next obvious thing is to mess with our heads, and have a character who we are not sure has died return as zombie, but the readers and POV charcters are left guessing. 

You mean Brienne? Do you believe Stoneheart hanged her and then gave her the kiss, she raised and when Jaime met her in ADWD she already is a zombie?

I can understand this, but not zombie Jaime. Stoneheart wants him dead, if Brienne really kills him why would Stoneheart bright him back as a fire wight?

[LynnS]

10 hours ago, Mister Smikes said:

"Their eyes glowed red as hot coals in a brazier. Perhaps once they had been lions, but now they were twisted and grotesque. "

I've looked at this dream of Bran's again and again and at first I thought this was Jaimie and Cersei but I don't think so.  This is someone who can see Bran possibly through fire visions as Mel does.  And we know this can act as a two way portal since we see the encounter with Mel and BR and Bran.  She sees them through her fire and they see her.

I think something similar is happening in Bran's dream of gargoyles, twisted things that might once have been lions. They are watching him and begin to stalk him.  When he wakes he realizes that he is not safe.

Later he tells Jon at the Skirling Pass that he is not afraid anymore, he can see them but they can't see him.

So I wonder who these two spooks might be.  Could it be Moqorro and Benerro seeing Bran through their fires?

Quote

Moqorro's skin is black as pitch,[3] darker than coal or jet.[4] He is over six feet tall, with a belly like a boulder. A tangle of pure white hair grows from his face like a mane of a lion.[3] 

His twisted gargoyle form may be his true appearance.

[Mister Smikes]

59 minutes ago, Back in Black-Snow said:

I agree. I honestly can't see either Jaime or Brienne, or Jon Snow becoming like Beric or UnCat.

These are THE 3 CENTRAL characters that have to make a choice between their vows and doing what is right (and Sandor Clegane, who took no vows).

The surviving central characters, the big 6, are Arya, Sansa, Tyrion, Danaerys, Jon Snow, and Bran.  And I do not think even they are 100% safe.

Jaime and Brienne are not central characters.  They became POVs for limited and temporary purposes during the middle part of the story.  Now their POVs have ceased, and the reader is left to guess at their current status. 

I tend to agree that Jon Snow will not become a zombie.  But I do think GRRM will mess with our heads, and make us THINK that Jon Snow has become a zombie.   He has many tricks up his sleeve he can use to mislead the reader. 

As for these 3 characters being closely connected to the idea of VOWS, I agree that that is indeed a theme.  But take a peek at what GRRM says in 2011:

"Each time Beric’s revived he loses a little more of himself. He was sent on a mission before his first death. He was sent on a mission to do something, and it’s like, that’s what he’s clinging to. He’s forgetting other things, he’s forgetting who he is, or where he lived. He’s forgotten the woman who he was once supposed to marry. Bits of his humanity are lost every time he comes back from death; he remembers that mission. His flesh is falling away from him, but this one thing, this purpose that he had is part of what’s animating him and bringing him back to death. I think you see echoes of that with some of the other characters who have come back from death."

He uses the word "mission" and not "vows", but that should not prevent us from seeing the connection.  Vows can be connected to a mission.  For instance, a mission to "take the sword and slay the kingslayer".

What "other characters" (besides UnBeric) is GRRM referring to?  Catelyn for one, obviously.  But we have also already seen Brienne, after being hanged, and looking oddly changed, appear to Jaime at midnight fingering her sword "oathkeeper".  So his use of the plural is thereby explained.  At least, I cannot think of any ice zombies who have showed "echoes of that."

And you left out the fact that Catelyn, especially as a zombie, is defined by "keeping her word":

"Robb had broken his word, but Catelyn kept hers. She tugged hard on Aegon's hair and sawed at his neck until the blade grated on bone. Blood ran hot over her fingers. His little bells were ringing, ringing, ringing, and the drum went boom doom boom."

59 minutes ago, Back in Black-Snow said:

And this reminds me of the verse in the Bible where Jesus says, "Again, you have heard that the ancients were told, ‘You shall not make false vows, but shall fulfill your vows to the Lord.’ But I say to you, make no oath at all, either by heaven, for it is the throne of God, or by the earth, for it is the footstool of His feet, or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King. Nor shall you make an oath by your head, for you cannot make one hair white or black. But let your statement be, ‘Yes, yes’ or ‘No, no’; anything beyond these is of evil."
Matthew 5:33‭-‬37 NASB

This quote from Christian scripture suggests that oaths can be an unholy thing.   It is hard for me to see this as an objection to what I am suggesting.  Lady Stoneheart is certainly an Unholy Thing.

[Mister Smikes]

1 hour ago, Odej said:

You mean Brienne? Do you believe Stoneheart hanged her and then gave her the kiss, she raised and when Jaime met her in ADWD she already is a zombie?

I think GRRM intends to mess with us to some extent using at least 3 characters:  Jon Snow, Brienne and Jaime.  

Brienne and Jaime will turn out to actually be zombies.  The Jon Snow case will be a fake out.  GRRM will have us convinced he has become a zombie, only to have him eventually turn up fully alive and fully human.

1 hour ago, Odej said:

I can understand this, but not zombie Jaime. Stoneheart wants him dead, if Brienne really kills him why would Stoneheart bright him back as a wight fire?

Well, first off, I don't assume Stoneheart will necessarily be the one to bring back Jaime.  UnBrienne might be the one to do that.  Kill him, then kiss him.  Her "lips were made for kissing", after all.   This thing about Jaime being brought before Stoneheart is a fan fantasy.  It is a fan fantasy, inspired by the refusal to accept all the indications that Brienne is going to kill Jaime herself.  There is no need for Stoneheart to be present at all.

Also, I don't assume Stoneheart's inhuman mind would necessarily agree with your logic.  As per the GRRM quote I gave above, fire wights are driven by their oaths/missions.  Catelyn forced Jaime to take a "hundred oaths".  Killing him, then kissing him, could be a way of forcing him to fulfill those oath.   She has, per my theory, already used that trick with Brienne.

Thirdly, fire wights and other zombies are, in my view, still dead.  They have not, in any good sense, been brought back to life.  So I see no contradiction in killing, then kissing.  Stoneheart wants him dead, and dead he remains.

[Mister Smikes]

1 hour ago, LynnS said:

I've looked at this dream of Bran's again and again and at first I thought this was Jaimie and Cersei but I don't think so.  This is someone who can see Bran possibly through fire visions as Mel does.  And we know this can act as a two way portal since we see the encounter with Mel and BR and Bran.  She sees them through her fire and they see her.

I think something similar is happening in Bram's dream of gargoyles, twisted things that might once have been lions. They are watching him and begin to stalk him.  When he wajes he realizes that he is not safe.

Later he tells Jon at the Skirling Pass that he is not afraid anymore, he can see them but they can't see him.

So I wonder who these two spooks might be.  Could it be Moqorro and Benerro seeing Bran through their fires?

His twisted gargoyle form may be his true appearance.

Your Moqurro/Benerro idea is interesting.  But I think it is too far removed from the original context.  I think your original Jaime/Cersei idea is far more likely to be correct.  And perhaps, we need not forget Tyrion either.

If you want to avoid the implication that Jaime/Cersei will become twisted monsters in the future, an alternative interpretation might be that they were, at that time, twisted monsters, in terms of the state of their souls.  Which does not necessarily rule out future redemption.

[LynnS]

1 minute ago, Mister Smikes said:

Your Moqurro/Benerro idea is interesting

As long as its interesting.  I'm happy with that.