What will be the reactions in the Vale to Sansa's true identity reveal ?

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight9]

What will be the reactions of the lords, knights, ladies and other characters in the Vale once Sansa's true identity is revealed, whenever it happens according to Littlefinger's plans or not ? 

In particular, what will be Mya Stone and Myranda Royce's reactions to learning that their friend is none other than Sansa Stark ? What will be Yohn Royce's reaction and following actions or plans ?

What do you think that the consequences of this reveal will be for Littlefinger and the Vale lords and ladies ? How will this influence the nobles' attitude and actions toward Littlefinger ? 

How would a reveal outside of Littlefinger's plans affect Petyr Baelish's position and plans ?

[Apoplexy]

I don't know how the Vale plot is going to play out, but I would hope it makes the Vale lords even less likely to trust LF.

[Curled Finger]

Much has been made in the theory crafting of Sansa's fate since the TWOW Alayne chapter was published.  I would expect that her position will become more precarious after the reveal of her true identity.   Sure, some will rally to defend her, but there are lousy people in all the regions of Westeros.  Someone will at least try to take her to Cersei for a reward, perhaps even to LSH for some reward, but I think she's relatively safe as Sansa Stark right there in the Vale where Littlefinger has most definite plans for her claims.  The problem is the longer she stays put the more danger she will find herself in as this ridiculous tourney approaches.  No one likes Littlefinger.   Not even a little bit.  I can't help but wonder at the suspicion Sansa will fall under in taking protection from Littlefinger.   He's not doing her any real favors.   She doesn't have the cash to buy them all off like her benefactor does.  The Vale may not be as pleased with her as we might think they will be...she is both legally married to the Lannisters and suspected of having a hand in Joffrey's death.   As Alayne she is betrothed to the heir to the Vale, much to the dismay of at least one noble woman.  And how is that going to work with her already married an all?    She better become her own best spin doctor.  

[Wisconsin]

Fear.  They will be afraid of the trouble that comes with Sansa Stark.  Many will want to turn her in to the Lannisters.  She is a known kingslayer. 

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight9]

6 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

Much has been made in the theory crafting of Sansa's fate since the TWOW Alayne chapter was published.  I would expect that her position will become more precarious after the reveal of her true identity.   Sure, some will rally to defend her, but there are lousy people in all the regions of Westeros.  Someone will at least try to take her to Cersei for a reward, perhaps even to LSH for some reward, but I think she's relatively safe as Sansa Stark right there in the Vale where Littlefinger has most definite plans for her claims.  The problem is the longer she stays put the more danger she will find herself in as this ridiculous tourney approaches.  No one likes Littlefinger.   Not even a little bit.  I can't help but wonder at the suspicion Sansa will fall under in taking protection from Littlefinger.   He's not doing her any real favors.   She doesn't have the cash to buy them all off like her benefactor does.  The Vale may not be as pleased with her as we might think they will be...she is both legally married to the Lannisters and suspected of having a hand in Joffrey's death.   As Alayne she is betrothed to the heir to the Vale, much to the dismay of at least one noble woman.  And how is that going to work with her already married an all?    She better become her own best spin doctor.  

I don't expect her to be in real danger from the Vale lords, most of them hate the Lannisters and were sympathetic to the Starks and wanted to join them and the Tullys against the Lannisters, though of course Lysa and Littlefinger prevented them. 

And with the Lannister-Tyrell being weakened and divided, especially once Cersei is the Lannister in charge once again in TWOW, and her and the Tyrells having to worry about Aegon, and given how confident the Vale lords are in their kingdom defenses I don't think that they will have the feeling of being in danger enough for giving Sansa away to be an option in their mind.

[Nevets]

I think Myranda knows who she really is, or at least has a pretty good idea.  And I suspect she's not the only one.  Yohn Royce seemed to think she looked familiar, and Lady Waynewood seemed awfully willing to consider Alayne as a match for Harry, and made mention of having witnessed "horrors".  Alayne was supposedly safe.

She will probably disclose her identity on her own terms, when it is safe and/or necessary to do so.  By then, her relationship with Littlefinger may well have soured, and she may regard him as more of a threat than anyone in Kings Landing.  By the way, Mace and Loras Tyrell think she is guilty, and that Margaery was an intended target.  So even if Cersei is gone ,she isn't necessarily safe, although she may not realize 

I think Littlefinger's position would be iffy, mainly because I think she will be on the outs with him, and the Vale lords both don't like Littlefinger and do like the Starks.  I think she may ask for help for the North, which could be a reason for her disclosure.  As for the tournament, it will be long over by then.

[Lord Lannister]

1) Fuck Littlefinger(more)

2) Marry Sansa

[The Bard of Banefort]

There’s so many ways Sansa’s TWOW plot could go, not the least of which considering what Shadrich’s role will be. My personal theory is that LF plans on betrothing Sansa to Aegon and that the Alayne sample chapter is an example of him “training” her to seduce young men (remember, this guy’s a pimp). Even without the Ashford Tourney Theory, there’s no way someone as ambitious and conniving as LF would ever miss out on the opportunity that an unwed Aegon presents. But even if he does really plan on wedding Sansa to Harry, I think the end goal is probably the same: wait until she bears a son, kill her husband, and then marry her himself. That’s basically what he did with Lysa, and he wants Sansa more than he ever wanted her.*

Alternatively, maybe Shadrich is able to kidnap Sansa and bring her back to KL only to find Aegon on the throne, and she has to use her charms to survive (although that would be a bit redundant). That said, Sansa doesn’t want to be queen or return to King’s Landing. In this case, I think this might be when she finally breaks free of LF, using her wits to get out of there.

Myranda may turn out to be treacherous, but she’s also shrewd and ambitious and seems to genuinely enjoy Sansa’s company. Her family will likely ally with Sansa in order to advance themselves, at the very least.
 

*George has said in the past that LF is torn between wanting Sansa to be his daughter and his wife. He’s also a sociopath who openly boasted of “having the maidenheads” of both Cat and Lysa at court. Seeing Sansa with another man will likely drive him crazy with jealousy, and cause him to do something rash. I doubt George will actually have him rape Sansa, but we might see something close to it. LF did seem to disconnect from reality for a moment when he kissed her in ASOS.

[Nathan Stark]

It'll be feigned shock. Sansa's identity is the worst kept secret in the Vale. Sansa blurting out Jon Snow's name to Myranda basically sealed the deal, as far as that branch of House Royce is concerned. The Waynewoods probably know as well. And there are too many inconsistencies in "Alayne's" backstory to be convincing. As long as Littlefinger has the key to the Vale, Sweetrobin, everybody will have to pretend to be surprised, but they won't be.

[The Bard of Banefort]

I feel like it takes away from Sansa’s growth as a character if it turns out that everyone secretly knows who she really is. She’s still under LF’s thumb, but being able to fool other people would show that she’s not still at the mercy of everyone else’s whims. It makes sense that Myranda and her father have figured it out, but I think it would make for a better story if the reveal is a surprise to most of the other Vale families.

[Brother Seamus]

Let's start with the fact that openly revealing Sansa's identity will be a break with Cersei. He needs to keep her identity, and the fact that he has been helping her and protecting her, secret, until he's ready to rebel against Cersei.

So, a premature revelation would be a problem for littlefinger, depending on the circumstances. Maybe not a big problem, given that Cersei will have a lot on her plate regardless of the timing, but a problem that will force his hand on whatever his scheme is.

Otherwise, I confess I have a hard time understanding the scheme anyway. Superficially, he's planning to wed her to Harry the heir and then kill sweetrobin, so that Harry and Sansa's marriage effects a union of the vale and the north, and maybe the riverlands too depending on the fate of edmure.

but unless he somehow maintains control of sansa - whether he kills harry or not - how does this benefit LF? And why would he be so confident of maintaining control over her once she is revealed as a great lady with power and authority of her own?

Can someone play out the scheme so it makes sense?

 

[Brother Seamus]

Here's a prediction (not original I'm sure): however this exactly plays out, LF's obsession with Sansa will be his undoing.

[Raven Princling]

Honestly, Sansa and the Vale is the plotline I am very (if not THE most) excited for in Winds. It could go in so many ways and so much of it depends on what the rest of the realm is like. Wether Aegon's conquest is doing well, will Tyrell and Lannister alliance survive, what is happening with Euron and so on.

I think some Vale lords who wanted to join Robb initially will take her side. Others might scheme to sell her out to Lannisters (I do think there are very few of them tho). One thing I am sure of is that perhaps some people (like Myranda and her father who have figured out Alayne is not Alayne) will not be as shocked about Sansa's true identiy, but rather the manner it is revealed. My (baseless) theory is that Sansa will do it herself and it will be her first true political move. (perhaps also the first step of Littlefinger's demise).

[The Bard of Banefort]

53 minutes ago, Brother Seamus said:

Let's start with the fact that openly revealing Sansa's identity will be a break with Cersei. He needs to keep her identity, and the fact that he has been helping her and protecting her, secret, until he's ready to rebel against Cersei.

So, a premature revelation would be a problem for littlefinger, depending on the circumstances. Maybe not a big problem, given that Cersei will have a lot on her plate regardless of the timing, but a problem that will force his hand on whatever his scheme is.

Otherwise, I confess I have a hard time understanding the scheme anyway. Superficially, he's planning to wed her to Harry the heir and then kill sweetrobin, so that Harry and Sansa's marriage effects a union of the vale and the north, and maybe the riverlands too depending on the fate of edmure.

but unless he somehow maintains control of sansa - whether he kills harry or not - how does this benefit LF? And why would he be so confident of maintaining control over her once she is revealed as a great lady with power and authority of her own?

Can someone play out the scheme so it makes sense?

 

Well, like I mentioned in my comment, we saw how LF got to where he is now: he brought about Jon Arryn’s death while his heir was still a little boy, then he married Lysa, essentially giving him control of the Vale at least until Sweetrobin comes of age. He could do the same thing with Sansa by arranging Harry’s death and contriving some way to make her believe that she needs him (to handle the other lords, protect her son, etc.) so that she’ll consent to marry him. Now he would have effective control of the Riverlands, Vale, AND North, along with a younger, hotter Tully wife. If he manages to marry Sansa to Aegon, he gets the whole realm (plus a council seat in the meantime, possibly even Hand). 
 

I just hope we start to see Sansa turn against LF in TWOW, and that it isn’t dragged out longer. One of the few things I liked about season 8 was that there was no Littlefinger.

[Universal Sword Donor]

You know that Jeremy Clarkson meme?

"Oh no, well any way"

That's pretty much how I see it playing out.

[Brother Seamus]

22 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Well, like I mentioned in my comment, we saw how LF got to where he is now: he brought about Jon Arryn’s death while his heir was still a little boy, then he married Lysa, essentially giving him control of the Vale at least until Sweetrobin comes of age. He could do the same thing with Sansa by arranging Harry’s death and contriving some way to make her believe that she needs him (to handle the other lords, protect her son, etc.) so that she’ll consent to marry him. Now he would have effective control of the Riverlands, Vale, AND North, along with a younger, hotter Tully wife. If he manages to marry Sansa to Aegon, he gets the whole realm (plus a council seat in the meantime, possibly even Hand). 
 

I just hope we start to see Sansa turn against LF in TWOW, and that it isn’t dragged out longer. One of the few things I liked about season 8 was that there was no Littlefinger.

"contriving some way to make her believe that she needs him" "If he manages to marry Sansa to Aegon, he gets the whole realm"

this is the part I don't see. how can he be sure he maintains control over her?

[Mordred]

Littlefinger is not interested in Sansa beyond her utility to his objective.  He will discard her like a snotty patch of Kleenex when the time is right.  Bad timing can and probably will get them both killed.  But whatever the case may be, she is on the Westeros Most Wanted List.  Wanted as in dead or alive.  There is a bounty on her head and the Lannisters are generous with their coins.

[The Bard of Banefort]

1 hour ago, Brother Seamus said:

"contriving some way to make her believe that she needs him" "If he manages to marry Sansa to Aegon, he gets the whole realm"

this is the part I don't see. how can he be sure he maintains control over her?

I think LF vastly overestimates his own genius and Sansa’s guilelessness. And to be honest, his whole plot has succeeded mainly due to luck. For instance, Tyrion DEFINITELY should have thrown him in the black cells in ACOK. Even the plan to start a war that somehow increases his own power is insanely convoluted. It’s one of the very few plot holes in this series, in my opinion. LF has an unreasonable amount of luck.

[BlackLightning]

On 1/18/2022 at 7:35 PM, The Bard of Banefort said:

LF has an unreasonable amount of luck.

Luck runs out.

I actually do like to think that Sansa may actually go to King's Landing and briefly mix with the new power structure there before returning to the North. One legitimate reason for her going south (or staying in the south for a longer than desirable period of time) is to ask for an annulment. Granted, she/they might able to do this by mail but I think that -- somehow -- they will have no other choice. Or maybe a trip to King's Landing to meet with fAegon will be a power move on Sansa's part.

Another legit reason for her to go south is this whole matter of being a fugitive of the Iron Throne and clearing her name. But I don't know if Sansa should or even would do that. Being accused of killing Joffrey works in her favor. Her countrymen in the North and the Riverlands would view her as a war hero, one who avenged the Red Wedding. Others, who view Joffrey as a bastard usurper born of incest and/or a nightmare, are absolutely shedding no tears over his death. The Dornish would likely see absolutely nothing wrong with her poisoning the king at his own wedding as its tried-and-true tactic of the Dornish.

However, the timeline for this is really wonky. This, of course, would mean that Aegon takes the Iron Throne before the end of the Battle of Ice and before the matter of northern succession is concluded and before the fall of the Wall...maybe before the resurrection of Jon Snow and Cersei Lannister's departure from either the city or the narrative.

So, it'll be well before the very end of the book.

Keep in mind, this is wintertime so travelling back and forth will be difficult.

Even if Sansa never goes back to the North (which makes no sense), her travelling to King's Landing is yet another Meereenese Knot.

[The Bard of Banefort]

1 hour ago, BlackLightning said:

Luck runs out.

I actually do like to think that Sansa may actually go to King's Landing and briefly mix with the new power structure there before returning to the North. One legitimate reason for her going south (or staying in the south for a longer than desirable period of time) is to ask for an annulment. Granted, she/they might able to do this by mail but I think that -- somehow -- they will have no other choice. Or maybe a trip to King's Landing to meet with fAegon will be a power move on Sansa's part.

Another legit reason for her to go south is this whole matter of being a fugitive of the Iron Throne and clearing her name. But I don't know if Sansa should or even would do that. Being accused of killing Joffrey works in her favor. Her countrymen in the North and the Riverlands would view her as a war hero, one who avenged the Red Wedding. Others, who view Joffrey as a bastard usurper born of incest and/or a nightmare, are absolutely shedding no tears over his death. The Dornish would likely see absolutely nothing wrong with her poisoning the king at his own wedding as its tried-and-true tactic of the Dornish.

However, the timeline for this is really wonky. This, of course, would mean that Aegon takes the Iron Throne before the end of the Battle of Ice and before the matter of northern succession is concluded and before the fall of the Wall...maybe before the resurrection of Jon Snow and Cersei Lannister's departure from either the city or the narrative.

So, it'll be well before the very end of the book.

Keep in mind, this is wintertime so travelling back and forth will be difficult.

Even if Sansa never goes back to the North (which makes no sense), her travelling to King's Landing is yet another Meereenese Knot.

It could be another way to stretch out the timeline a bit though. Honestly, a lot more time should have passed by now when you consider how big Westeros is supposed to be.