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Is Asha Greyjoy, really the smart one in her family ?


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Maybe she's the 'least dumb'? It seems to be a theme of these stories that a ruler names a daughter as heir and then does nothing at all to ensure that his wishes will be carried out. Asha should have been an integral part of the running of the Iron Islands long before Balon's death. Damphair should have been brought onside as well. Did Balon and he never talk?

"That girl of mine, she's going to rule all of this someday"

"She's a woman. It would be unnatural"

"Good, I'm glad we agree"

It just seems like a lot of opportunities to lock her in as the ruler of the Islands were overlooked during the lead up to the books. 

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12 hours ago, Terrorthatflapsinthenight9 said:

Asha is just a little bit richer in it than Theon and much more than her father and traditionalist uncles, but still far from normal.

I don't see how can she be smarter than Theon. She made the very same mistake that he did, lacked the hindsight that he showed early on about the invasion of the north and does not have a sucess under her bell like he has with taking Winterfell with clever trick instead of brute force.

 

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7 hours ago, frenin said:

She doesn't have too much to compete, you could say that Euron is the smart one but he's just crazy.

 

Sad but true. The Greyjoy family seems to have an IQ average of 60...

Still Euron and Theon at least for me, showed to be more clever than her.

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It's the Old Way. That religion makes the common ironborn look dumb to the eyes of westerosi and their relatively more progressive Faith of the Seven. Of the characters mentioned I think that the only dumb one was Vic. Even GRRM pointed it out. Balon and Aeron are both staunch followers of the Old Way; Euron lived travelling around the world so I guess he carries with him a lot of strange religions and influences and I don't think he's crazy since he knows exactly what he is doing; and yeah, to me Asha is kinda naive; Theon, well, he is a complex guy, growing up with northeners while keeping this idealized notion of his homeland that shattered eventually. 

All in all, I think none of them is especially smart. But then again, I have a hard time finding "smart" characters in Westeros. Apart from Baelish, Varys... maybe Rodrik Harlaw... GRRM didn't give us many characters we can call directly and without all doubt "smart".

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8 hours ago, Thandros said:

Her plan as Queen relies on the idea that while the Starks are gone the Northerns aren't just going to accept the Boltons as Wardens and a revolt will begin swiftly against them. Given the dislike of the Boltons (only really the Dustins and Ryswells are their side at all, plus the treacherous Karstark branch, and even with them their are serious doubts about their loyalty) by supporting such a revolt they can one earn favour with the Northerners for helping defeat the worst traitors in the North. Given the relative strength of the Northerners they would definately be the weaker position in such a negotiation. They may consider from a purely practical standpoint consider giving up the mostly valueless lands of the Stoney Shore and Sea Dragon point for support against the Boltons and Iron throne worth it (they may also not consider it worth it but they don't have a lot of options at this point). They also likely hate the Boltons more than the Ironborn at this point so working with the lesser evil is something they may consider even if temporarily.

Well, the northems have just as much reason to hate her, as they have to hate Roose, that alliance is impossible after the previous backstabing, Robb gave them the best terms and showed goodwill by freeing Theon only to be spat on the face.,

The lords would not raise their arms against Roose without a clear leardership, that without a Stark it would not happen, Manderly will only do it if Davos can find Rickon for example, Robett Glover failed to recruit new men in white harbor, Karstark, Ryswell and Dustin are on Roose side with the Freys and IT supporting him outside of the north.

The north also does not need to negotiate to take back the their lands, Ramsey already had tooked Moat Callin by the time of the Kingsmoot, the other areas controlled by the IB were not hard to take, like how easily they tooked Deepwood. Like Tywin said "Come spring, the northmen will have had a bellyful of krakens".

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5 hours ago, Arthur Peres said:

Well, the northems have just as much reason to hate her, as they have to hate Roose, that alliance is impossible after the previous backstabing, Robb gave them the best terms and showed goodwill by freeing Theon only to be spat on the face.,

The lords would not raise their arms against Roose without a clear leardership, that without a Stark it would not happen, Manderly will only do it if Davos can find Rickon for example, Robett Glover failed to recruit new men in white harbor, Karstark, Ryswell and Dustin are on Roose side with the Freys and IT supporting him outside of the north.

The north also does not need to negotiate to take back the their lands, Ramsey already had tooked Moat Callin by the time of the Kingsmoot, the other areas controlled by the IB were not hard to take, like how easily they tooked Deepwood. Like Tywin said "Come spring, the northmen will have had a bellyful of krakens".

For one by the time Ramsey has Moat Cailin Euron is already crowned and they've heard about it in the North so it's at least weeks afterwards. Second the revolt is happening regardless. Robett Glover's failure is a cover for Manderly plans to revolts. Pretend he can't muster men to fight while in reality they're being mustered in numbers for the plan. It's not clear if Davos has succeed in his efforts to retrieve Rickon but It looks very likely that Manderly will move against Bolton regardless. And while yes Dustin and Ryswell are on Bolton's side for now he's lost the Karstarks very quickly since only the branch was on his side and the mainline has no desire to aid the Bolton's and even the Ryswells and Dustins only back Roose and if he dies they'll flip faster than anything against Ramsey.

And sure the Ironborn were definitely treacherous and they probably hate them. At the very least they didn't break guest right and aside from Theon they didn't break any sworn oaths. Not a lot but they might decide to run with it. It's not a perfect plan but none of the plans at the Kingsmoot are much better.

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12 hours ago, Arthur Peres said:

Well, the northems have just as much reason to hate her, as they have to hate Roose, that alliance is impossible after the previous backstabing, Robb gave them the best terms and showed goodwill by freeing Theon only to be spat on the face.,

The enemy of my enemy is my friend. No alliance is impossible in or by itself. Just very very difficult.

The only real hurdle around such alliance would be Theon's head. Which Asha would have to deliver if she wanted the goodwill of the wolves.

 

 

 

13 hours ago, Arthur Peres said:

 

 

 

 

 

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The other major reason why her plan couldn't work other than Balon's backstabbing right after Robb offered him an alliance, Theon's taking of Winterfell and murders of "Bran and Rickon Stark" is the fact that she basically wants to make the northmen accept to cede lands to the Ironborn that they had just invaded, which was never going to happen, no country in real life would accept to ally with another one based on these terms, and that's not counting the fact that the Ironborn couldn't hold those lands in the long run and that the northmen were always going to take them back anyway.

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