I think Euron is full off shit, and that is gonna disappoint some people.

[Phylum of Alexandria]

1 minute ago, Daeron the Daring said:

They are adult people, krakens should be something they know about due to their profession.

So, just wondering, if you happened to see gigantic white limbs rise from the ocean waters and pull down a ship, what do you think you'd assume it was?

 

[Phylum of Alexandria]

34 minutes ago, BlackLightning said:

Nagga's Cradle on Old Wyk where the kingsmoot was help looks like a barren weirwood forest.

Yeah, pretty much every detail we know about the Grey King is related to weirwoods. Nagga's bones, the demon tree Ygg, bringing men the gift of fire by tricking the Storm God to send lightning down, setting a tree ablaze.

Maybe the kraken is yet another weirwood symbol that reflects interaction with this magical species by seafaring people.

[Daeron the Daring]

5 minutes ago, Phylum of Alexandria said:

So, just wondering, if you happened to see gigantic white limbs rise from the ocean waters and pull down a ship, what do you think you'd assume it was?

 

Well, that depends on the other characteristics of those limbs, maybe on the amount of limbs as well. Also on the whole procedure, how it occurs to the eye. But with the information I got (gigantic white limbs), I'd say a white kraken. 

[Phylum of Alexandria]

2 minutes ago, Daeron the Daring said:

Well, that depends on the other characteristics of those limbs, maybe on the amount of limbs as well. Also on the whole procedure, how it occurs to the eye. But with the information I got (gigantic white limbs), I'd say a white kraken. 

My point exactly! Upon witnessing such a scene, the sailors would be perfectly reasonable in assuming a giant kraken. Moreover, they would be extremely reasonable in not assuming a weirwood. But what they call a kraken may in fact be revealed to be the same species as what we call weirwoods, and what we call weirwoods may in fact be what all the kraken lore is all about. Again, I could be wrong about all of this, let's agree to disagree if you like, but there's certainly an argument for it.

[Daeron the Daring]

8 minutes ago, Phylum of Alexandria said:

My point exactly! Upon witnessing such a scene, the sailors would be perfectly reasonable in assuming a giant kraken. Moreover, they would be extremely reasonable in not assuming a weirwood. But what they call a kraken may in fact be revealed to be the same species as what we call weirwoods, and what we call weirwoods may in fact be what all the kraken lore is all about. Again, I could be wrong about all of this, let's agree to disagree if you like, but there's certainly an argument for it.

I mean, I definitely disagree with weirwoods being able to quickly grow hundreds of meters upwards in sea water or something like that, but we can safely assume krakens do exist in any way, since we have portrayals of them. And of course you may mistake roots for limbs of a kraken once, even twice, hell even 10 times. But people had a good 8000 years to figure that out. I also don't see why would weirwoods ever attack an ibbenese whale hunter ship, nor how could they attack it first, but I can definitely see whale hunters mistaking the head part of a kraken for a whale. Or a kraken randomly attacking a ship.

But yea, I don't have much else to say about this.

[Phylum of Alexandria]

2 minutes ago, Daeron the Daring said:

I mean, I definitely disagree with weirwoods being able to quickly grow hundreds of meters upwards in sea water or something like that, but we can safely assume krakens do exist in any way, since we have portrayals of them. And of course you may mistake roots for limbs of a kraken once, even twice, hell even 10 times. But people had a good 8000 years to figure that out. I also don't see why would weirwoods ever attack an ibbenese whale hunter ship, nor how could they attack it first, but I can definitely see whale hunters mistaking the head part of a kraken for a whale. Or a kraken randomly attacking a ship.

But yea, I don't have much else to say about this.

Well, for now let's agree to disagree.

But as to your questions, Crowfood's Daughter presents some interesting speculations that address some of this stuff, including the Ibbenese whaler attack. The video itself is not primarily focused on krakens, but they are covered a fair amount.

 

 

[BlackLightning]

@Phylum of Alexandria I understand the point you are trying to make about the weirwoods.

Isn't there a gigantic tree in Norse mythology that is not only the source of all life but is the foundation for the entire world/universe?

It's not entirely outside the realm of possibility. But it's a massive stretch given -- as @Daeron the Daring points out -- that krakens do exist in this series.

It's entirely possible that this "kraken" creature in the Narrow Sea that Euron might try to summon and control is the same sort of creature that mortally wounded Balerion and caused Aerea's death in the Smoking Sea of Valyria.

[Nathan Stark]

On 1/19/2022 at 2:47 PM, politemom_ said:

As I only have the Swedish translations of the books at hand, I can't give you the direct quote; but there is a moment in AFFC when Euron is boasting about having travelled through Valyria and Rodrik "The Reader" Harlaw simply asks him "Have you?". After that Euron completely loses his cool and tells Harlaw to stick to his books.

Can't wait for everybody's "Euron Apocalypse" theories to go down the drain after realizing what a fraud he is

Condratictory things can both be true simultaneously. Euron can be both full of shit about visiting Valyria and also immensely powerful with magical artifacts. He got the dragonhorn and the valyrian steel suit armor from somewhere. Whether he got them from Valyria, or bought or stole them from Volantis, either way, his having these things shows him to be resourceful, cunning and bold. All the textual evidence we have so far suggests the "Euron Apocalypse" theories are very, very plausible, even likely.

[Kierria]

On 1/19/2022 at 2:47 PM, politemom_ said:

As I only have the Swedish translations of the books at hand, I can't give you the direct quote; but there is a moment in AFFC when Euron is boasting about having travelled through Valyria and Rodrik "The Reader" Harlaw simply asks him "Have you?". After that Euron completely loses his cool and tells Harlaw to stick to his books.

Can't wait for everybody's "Euron Apocalypse" theories to go down the drain after realizing what a fraud he is

Euron is something of a con man.  I don't believe his claim.  But he still owns an armor of Valyrian steel.  Vs does not make a person invincible but it gives a slight advantage when fighting somebody who wears plain old steel.  His armor gives him advantage over an armored knight. 

We will see more Vs armor and weapon when Dany and her Unsullied troops slowly march westwards.  They may even pass the remains of the old freehold and find Vs weapons. 

[Nordom]

I think Euron doing something cataclysm really gels well to his role in the story. He's a character that got introduced late in the series and was on absolutely no one's radars, save for a few of the Ironborn. To now suddenly come in and do something nobody could have anticipated like summon Krakens from the deep to wipe out a whole fleet makes a lot of sense to me.

Basically, I see him as the living wake-up call to all the Game of Throne players who have been so busy and caught up with political intrigue and warring amongst them-selves for scraps of land that they'll be completely blind-sided by the impossible. Magic has been slowly returning into the series and now that Winter is here it's going to go off with a bang in the form of a psychopathic, mad person who's going to completely flip the rules of the game on it's head. 

Preston Jacobs made a pretty good case for the event: 

 

[Castellan]

I think Euron references Loki the trickster God in Norse myth. When Loki's ship made of the fingernails and toenails of the dead breaks its moorings and sets sail as the world floods, its part of the early stages leading to Ragnorak. Loki like Euro think he can defeat the Gods and become the one supreme God.

I also think Euron is basically a nutcase with an interest in the occult but whether he has gained any knowledge in his journey and whether his shiny 'Valyrian' suit or armour is real is another question. I think when the Ironborn entered the story it was the beginning of the weaving of the myth of Ragnorak into the story as we move to cataclysms and a final battle after which many of the leading characters will be dead. Strange wonders will happen but whether Euron has any active role in causing them is up in the air.

I have to say I found the Ironborn incredibly tedious and wondered why I had to read about another culture at this stage - wasn't there enough going on alread??. Now I see it like a big narrative stage creaking into action like a ship setting sail.

[Lady Rhodes]

On 2/15/2022 at 10:13 AM, Daeron the Daring said:

I don't necesarilly disagree with you, except for the fact that we have actual living krakens in the story. 

The story is pretty simple, I read the books after S7, meaning at that point Euron was a pretty established character. I knew he is meant to become a villain as I read the books. Then, reading ASOS, Varys mentions the Small Council the news of dragons and a kraken that attacked an Ibbenese ship, somewhere around Claw Isle, the seat of house Celtigar, which puts the beast somewhere in between the southern Narrow Sea and Blackwater Bay. However, both the dragons and the kraken are dismissed really fast by Tywin, as there had been more important stuff to discuss other than fairytales. But oh boy, we know neither of them are fairytales, and the whole scene is pretty ironic since we know dragons are really a thing the King of Westeros should worry about. So, being mentioned along with dragons, who will definitely become important to Westeros as well, makes me think this little sea creature may belong to someone, and I don't think I have to explain why that person is Euron. Not to mention that he at that point in time had to be on his journey back to the Iron Islands. We of course don't know if he crossed the Stepstones, to make the Narrow Sea a part of his journey, but he didn't necesarilly have to either, and after all, what doe we actually know about Euron's journey? Little more than nothing. 

 

Excellent point. Martin tends to use feints in his writing - revealing clues to a plot point in a thread of another. This mention of a Kraken here fits that very well.

I posted this a long time ago, but I think that there is evidence that Euron is Urrathon Nightwalker in Qarth. We know he has Pyat Pree (or a warlock that refers to Pree) and that warlocks left to follow Dany shortly after she left Qarth. That puts Euron in the vicinity of Qarth. If I am right, and I Am pretty sure I am, Urrathon also has a glass candle. 

[Daeron the Daring]

39 minutes ago, Lady Rhodes said:

Excellent point. Martin tends to use feints in his writing - revealing clues to a plot point in a thread of another. This mention of a Kraken here fits that very well.

I posted this a long time ago, but I think that there is evidence that Euron is Urrathon Nightwalker in Qarth. We know he has Pyat Pree (or a warlock that refers to Pree) and that warlocks left to follow Dany shortly after she left Qarth. That puts Euron in the vicinity of Qarth. If I am right, and I Am pretty sure I am, Urrathon also has a glass candle. 

Yea, I've seen this to be theorised before. I'm not entirely sure about it, but Urrathon is an ironborn name you can find all around the Iron Islands and their history. 

[Lady Rhodes]

26 minutes ago, Daeron the Daring said:

Yea, I've seen this to be theorised before. I'm not entirely sure about it, but Urrathon is an ironborn name you can find all around the Iron Islands and their history. 

Yes, there is also a parable/myth/story on the Iron Islands about Urrathon Goodbrother, whose arc is similar to Euron’s. The Nightwalker aspect, though, is particularly interesting.

[BlackLightning]

On 2/20/2022 at 11:46 AM, Lady Rhodes said:

Excellent point. Martin tends to use feints in his writing - revealing clues to a plot point in a thread of another. This mention of a Kraken here fits that very well.

I posted this a long time ago, but I think that there is evidence that Euron is Urrathon Nightwalker in Qarth. We know he has Pyat Pree (or a warlock that refers to Pree) and that warlocks left to follow Dany shortly after she left Qarth. That puts Euron in the vicinity of Qarth. If I am right, and I Am pretty sure I am, Urrathon also has a glass candle. 

Isn't Euron way too young to be Urrathon Nightwalker. Urrathon Nightwalker seems to have had been there for years...and he has his own manse.

On 2/19/2022 at 8:41 PM, Castellan said:

I think when the Ironborn entered the story it was the beginning of the weaving of the myth of Ragnorak into the story as we move to cataclysms and a final battle after which many of the leading characters will be dead. Strange wonders will happen but whether Euron has any active role in causing them is up in the air.

Right.

I think the books will end with the only surviving POVs being Bran, Arya and Sansa with Bran having the last chapter.

 

[SeanF]

Euron sees himself as some kind of eldritch demigod.

Maybe he does have such powers, or maybe he’s just a rotten man who has learned some spells.

[chrisdaw]

Euron is a mechanism to explain how the Others came to be and operate. Euron is going to create his own little band of "Others", what I mean specifically by this is he will come to create and psychically control an undead legion by means of skin changing, second lifing and his own element (stone where the Others are ice). We are going to follow him on this journey and thus learn how the Others were created.

[Apoplexy]

While reading Euron's chapters my feeling was that he was telling the truth about some things but exaggerating about others. Which leads me to believe that the euron apocalypse thing may not happen. But introducing a 'super villain' at this stage in the story seems extremely plausible. So I'm in two minds. It's a 50-50 possibility for me.

[remiel6]

This series hasn't always dealt, because of the use of different POV characters, the "unreliable narrator" My thing is, is Euron really Euron? The old lady seemed to indicate, I forget which book it was in, that Balon would be killed by a faceless man. We still have a faceless man in the citadel doing god knows what, and the other greyjoy out with the magic thing trying to get one of Dany's dragons. Personally I think all of these things are related. There is also a great unanswered question that has bugged me since the second book. Why was jaqen h'ghar in jail in kings landing? This really starts his whole story, who did he kill? how was he arrested? you have faceless men killing Balon, killing someone in kings landing, at the citadel, all with a known history of taking down Valyria. Not sure where it goes, but I think you are right to question Euron. 

 

As for the other comment above. I think Arya survives, i think Bran survives, Tyrion survives, but beyond that, who really knows. Personally I don't think Sansa survives. I think she has learned to much from little finger, and this sets up a problem. Sansa just like little finger will not be able to lie to Arya and the problem is neither one of them will know that Arya herself is a bit mad. I think Arya kills little finger, and Sansa likely to protect Jon. I do think Bran will know who Arya uses as a face and thus can watch her from a distance. Arya will return in the next book, and lots of death will follow her. Just as predicted by the old lady. 

[Apoplexy]

3 hours ago, remiel6 said:

This series hasn't always dealt, because of the use of different POV characters, the "unreliable narrator" My thing is, is Euron really Euron?

Would it really matter though if Euron wasn't Euron if he is indeed capable of doing everything he claims he can do? I'm not sure why a faceless man would wear Euron's face of all people, but if he can control dragons and stuff, it shouldn't matter.