How Maegor (son of Aerion) could factor into Robert's Rebellion

[The Bard of Banefort]

One of the big mysteries of ASOIAF is what became of Aerion Brightflame's infant son, Maegor, who should have been next in-line for the throne, but was passed over in favor of Aegon V. We know nothing about him, save that he likely died in Summerhall with the rest of his family.

In 237 AC, Egg and his wife, Betha, made betrothals between four of their five children with members of houses Baratheon, Tyrell, Tully, and Redwyne. All of these betrothals were broken when his children defied him, straining the Targaryens' relationship with the other houses and forcing Egg to send his youngest daughter, Rhaelle, off to Storm's End to marry a Baratheon. 

Another mystery in ASOIAF is why exactly the Reach remained loyal to Aerys during Robert's Rebellion, even as the rest of the realm (save Dorne) turned against him.  Dorne was bound to the Targaryens through marriage, but as far as we know, the Reach was not, despite Egg's best efforts. Unless. . . 

Rhaelle was still very young in 237, implying that Egg and Betha thought she was too young to be betrothed just yet. Maegor was likely younger than Rhaelle, and would have only been about five at this time. As both the king and Maegor's uncle--and with Aerion having died when Maegor was just a baby--it would have been within Egg's power to arrange a marriage for his nephew. It's safe to say that none of the Tyrells or Redwynes married into the Targaryen family, but what about the other Reach houses? Mace Tyrell's wife is a Hightower, a house that intermarried with the Targaryens at least twice beforehand. Egg could have tried to mend some of the damage caused by his children by betrothing his last eligible relative that we know of--his nephew, Maegor--to one of the noble Reach families. Even if Maegor was dead by the time of Robert's Rebellion, his children and grandchildren would likely still be alive.

TL;DR - Aerion's son, Maegor, may have wed a noblewoman from the Reach, creating an alliance that lasted until Robert's Rebellion.

[EggBlue]

interesting. we know Hightowers of Alicent's time didn't have valerian features . Yet, Alerie Hightower has silver hair and Lynesse is a little like Dany! ... could it be that Egg had arranged a match with daughter of the wealthiest lord in Westeros for his nephew? maybe Maegor had to change his name to Hightower so there won't be a too powerful Targaryen cadet branch and that Hightower name survives.. maybe the reason Malora Hightower has become the Mad Maid in people's view is that she has lots of dragon dreams, like Danys the Dreamer.

[The Bard of Banefort]

1 minute ago, EggBlue said:

interesting. we know Hightowers of Alicent's time didn't have valerian features . Yet, Alerie Hightower has silver hair and Lynesse is a little like Dany! ... could it be that Egg had arranged a match with daughter of the wealthiest lord in Westeros for his nephew? maybe Maegor had to change his name to Hightower so there won't be a too powerful Targaryen cadet branch and that Hightower name survives.. maybe the reason Malora Hightower has become the Mad Maid in people's view is that she has lots of dragon dreams, like Danys the Dreamer.

Ooh good point about Lynesse. I had remembered Alerie but forgot about her. It could also be that Maegor had a daughter who married a Hightower (maybe even a cousin marriage). I think this could also explain why the Reach was left out of the Southron Ambitions scheme.

[Lord Varys]

I'd be pretty surprised if Maegor ever played a crucial role in anything. Technically, speaking, he should have been part of Betha's big marriage alliances ... or should at least have stepped in for the boys when they broke their betrothals. If he had lived and was a part of the royal family, he could have married either the Baratheon girl, Celia Tully, or even Olenna Redwyne (the latter would be the most likeliest candidate, since Maegor should have been closest in age to Aegon's son Daeron).

The Hightowers might already have Targaryen ancestors thanks the Garmund-Rhaena match - one of their daughters might have married the eldest son of Lyonel and Sam -, not to mention that they might have chosen Valyrian brides from abroad occasionally - noblewomen from Lys or Tyrosh or Volantis - considering their status as powerful merchant lords.

But Egg's sisters are still unaccounted for, also Elaena's Penrose daughters, not to mention Baela and Alyn's descendants and whatever spares Maron and Daenerys had. They are ways how to resolve this.

I actually doubt that the Reach supporting the Targaryens could have been influenced by a recent Targaryen marriage since both Luthor and Olenna had been humiliated by Aegon V and his children. And they married each other, so whatever grudges they may have had couldn't have been neutralized by one of their bannermen being married to a Targaryen prince - especially not one who would have had a better claim to the Iron Throne than Aegon V and his descendants.

1 hour ago, EggBlue said:

interesting. we know Hightowers of Alicent's time didn't have valerian features.

We actually don't know that. We have no idea how Otto and Alicent looked like, we have no canonical description of them, Alicent's siblings, Otto's brother, who his wife was, etc.

Chances are not that bad that Alicent must have had lighter hair considering all her children inherited Valyrian looks.

[Nathan Stark]

20 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

I'd be pretty surprised if Maegor ever played a crucial role in anything. Technically, speaking, he should have been part of Betha's big marriage alliances ... or should at least have stepped in for the boys when they broke their betrothals. If he had lived and was a part of the royal family, he could have married either the Baratheon girl, Celia Tully, or even Olenna Redwyne (the latter would be the most likeliest candidate, since Maegor should have been closest in age to Aegon's son Daeron).

The Hightowers might already have Targaryen ancestors thanks the Garmund-Rhaena match - one of their daughters might have married the eldest son of Lyonel and Sam -, not to mention that they might have chosen Valyrian brides from abroad occasionally - noblewomen from Lys or Tyrosh or Volantis - considering their status as powerful merchant lords.

But Egg's sisters are still unaccounted for, also Elaena's Penrose daughters, not to mention Baela and Alyn's descendants and whatever spares Maron and Daenerys had. They are ways how to resolve this.

I actually doubt that the Reach supporting the Targaryens could have been influenced by a recent Targaryen marriage since both Luthor and Olenna had been humiliated by Aegon V and his children. And they married each other, so whatever grudges they may have had couldn't have been neutralized by one of their bannermen being married to a Targaryen prince - especially not one who would have had a better claim to the Iron Throne than Aegon V and his descendants.

We actually don't know that. We have no idea how Otto and Alicent looked like, we have no canonical description of them, Alicent's siblings, Otto's brother, who his wife was, etc.

Chances are not that bad that Alicent must have had lighter hair considering all her children inherited Valyrian looks.

King Jehearys did mistake Alicent for his wayward daughter Saera a time or two, so despite his probable cognitive decline, it's unlikely that would have happened if she didn't have some passing Targ resemblance.

[The Bard of Banefort]

It occurred to me that Maegor’s mother must have also died by the time of the Great Council since she was the daughter of Maekar’s older brother, and therefore would have had her claim put forth, much like Vaella did. Poor kid.

2 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

I'd be pretty surprised if Maegor ever played a crucial role in anything. Technically, speaking, he should have been part of Betha's big marriage alliances ... or should at least have stepped in for the boys when they broke their betrothals. If he had lived and was a part of the royal family, he could have married either the Baratheon girl, Celia Tully, or even Olenna Redwyne (the latter would be the most likeliest candidate, since Maegor should have been closest in age to Aegon's son Daeron).

The Hightowers might already have Targaryen ancestors thanks the Garmund-Rhaena match - one of their daughters might have married the eldest son of Lyonel and Sam -, not to mention that they might have chosen Valyrian brides from abroad occasionally - noblewomen from Lys or Tyrosh or Volantis - considering their status as powerful merchant lords.

But Egg's sisters are still unaccounted for, also Elaena's Penrose daughters, not to mention Baela and Alyn's descendants and whatever spares Maron and Daenerys had. They are ways how to resolve this.

I actually doubt that the Reach supporting the Targaryens could have been influenced by a recent Targaryen marriage since both Luthor and Olenna had been humiliated by Aegon V and his children. And they married each other, so whatever grudges they may have had couldn't have been neutralized by one of their bannermen being married to a Targaryen prince - especially not one who would have had a better claim to the Iron Throne than Aegon V and his descendants.

We actually don't know that. We have no idea how Otto and Alicent looked like, we have no canonical description of them, Alicent's siblings, Otto's brother, who his wife was, etc.

Chances are not that bad that Alicent must have had lighter hair considering all her children inherited Valyrian looks.

Well, I wouldn’t say they humiliated Olenna, since she took the credit in ASOS for ending the engagement, and didn’t seem shy about saying so ;-)

I’m guessing Maegor will have some role to play in the DnE stories, otherwise why even include him? Not to mention that we’re deliberately never told what became of him.

[The Bard of Banefort]

It occurred to me that Maegor’s mother must have also died by the time of the Great Council since she was the daughter of Maekar’s older brother, and therefore would have had her claim put forth, much like Vaella did. Poor kid.

3 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

I'd be pretty surprised if Maegor ever played a crucial role in anything. Technically, speaking, he should have been part of Betha's big marriage alliances ... or should at least have stepped in for the boys when they broke their betrothals. If he had lived and was a part of the royal family, he could have married either the Baratheon girl, Celia Tully, or even Olenna Redwyne (the latter would be the most likeliest candidate, since Maegor should have been closest in age to Aegon's son Daeron).

The Hightowers might already have Targaryen ancestors thanks the Garmund-Rhaena match - one of their daughters might have married the eldest son of Lyonel and Sam -, not to mention that they might have chosen Valyrian brides from abroad occasionally - noblewomen from Lys or Tyrosh or Volantis - considering their status as powerful merchant lords.

But Egg's sisters are still unaccounted for, also Elaena's Penrose daughters, not to mention Baela and Alyn's descendants and whatever spares Maron and Daenerys had. They are ways how to resolve this.

I actually doubt that the Reach supporting the Targaryens could have been influenced by a recent Targaryen marriage since both Luthor and Olenna had been humiliated by Aegon V and his children. And they married each other, so whatever grudges they may have had couldn't have been neutralized by one of their bannermen being married to a Targaryen prince - especially not one who would have had a better claim to the Iron Throne than Aegon V and his descendants.

We actually don't know that. We have no idea how Otto and Alicent looked like, we have no canonical description of them, Alicent's siblings, Otto's brother, who his wife was, etc.

Chances are not that bad that Alicent must have had lighter hair considering all her children inherited Valyrian looks.

Well, I wouldn’t say they humiliated Olenna, since she took the credit in ASOS for ending the engagement, and didn’t seem shy about saying so ;-)

I’m guessing Maegor will have some role to play in the DnE stories, otherwise why even include him? Not to mention that we’re deliberately never told what became of him.

[Lord Varys]

3 hours ago, Nathan Stark said:

King Jehearys did mistake Alicent for his wayward daughter Saera a time or two, so despite his probable cognitive decline, it's unlikely that would have happened if she didn't have some passing Targ resemblance.

That is a good point ... although I think Jaehaerys started to see Saera because he actually felt guilty that he never reached out to her and now it was too late. But, sure, it could be a hint that Alicent was at least fair-haired or resembled Saera in another way.

33 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

It occurred to me that Maegor’s mother must have also died by the time of the Great Council since she was the daughter of Maekar’s older brother, and therefore would have had her claim put forth, much like Vaella did. Poor kid.

That is certainly possible ... although it might be that they just dealt with Maekar's descendants. Like the Velaryons put forth Laenor's claim, Daenora could have just put forth her son's claim rather than her own. She was already passed over in 221 AC, apparently.

33 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Well, I wouldn’t say they humiliated Olenna, since she took the credit in ASOS for ending the engagement, and didn’t seem shy about saying so ;-)

That's what Olenna said decades later ... and she isn't necessarily an honest girl ;-). We can safely say that Olenna didn't make Daeron gay ... nor did she force him into a relationship with his 'husband'. It might be that Olenna and/or her family were the ones dissolving the betrothal, but Daeron would have been the one making it clear that he would never go through with the marriage.

33 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

I’m guessing Maegor will have some role to play in the DnE stories, otherwise why even include him? Not to mention that we’re deliberately never told what became of him.

The infant prince was mentioned in passing as early as ACoK - just as Daeron's lackwit daughter was. But that doesn't mean that either of them have a role to play. We also have Rhaegel and the twins mentioned in D&E ... but that doesn't necessarily mean that either of them will ever play an (important) role in a future D&E story. They could ... but they don't have to.

I'd prefer it if he played some role, but considering what George did to Aerea and Rhaella (and Vaegon and Saera and her children) chances are that he might die either early or end up in obscurity.

[frenin]

8 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Even if Maegor was dead by the time of Robert's Rebellion, his children and grandchildren would likely still be alive.

I'd say it's pretty unlikely. People that have Targaryen blood are talked about a good lot. If the Tyrells had a valid claim to the crown at hand, they wouldn't need to dance around Cersei and her bastards.

Besides Egg was spineless when it came to his family (except his poor last daughter he sent as hostage), it wouldn't be surprising that Maegor defied him too.

[Lord Varys]

19 hours ago, frenin said:

I'd say it's pretty unlikely. People that have Targaryen blood are talked about a good lot. If the Tyrells had a valid claim to the crown at hand, they wouldn't need to dance around Cersei and her bastards.

Besides Egg was spineless when it came to his family (except his poor last daughter he sent as hostage), it wouldn't be surprising that Maegor defied him too.

It's unlikely that any such descendants are crucial people of high birth we have met so far ... but even that's not completely impossible.

After all, we also have no clue who Tommen/Myrcella's immediate heirs are at that point. But there must be some Targaryen or Baratheon cousins out there who could put forth a claim if the Iron Throne were empty - or a childless Myrcella sat there and nobody knew who could succeed her if she caught a chill and died.

Insofar as little Maegor is concerned: Considering who and what he was - a scion from the elder Targaryen branch twice over with a much better claim to the Iron Throne than Aegon V or Jaehaerys II - we can expect that Egg kept a very close eye on him and that he would have punished him quite harshly if he had misbehaved.

We hear a lot about various rebellions taking place during Egg's reign, so one imagines that Maegor may have led one of those (or served at least as a figurehead) if he didn't die in infancy.

[Megorova]

On 1/20/2022 at 1:58 AM, The Bard of Banefort said:

One of the big mysteries of ASOIAF is what became of Aerion Brightflame's infant son, Maegor,

The most likely possibility (considering that he was never again mentioned anywhere, like in a bethrodal with one of the other Targs, etc.) is that he had died, like many other Targaryen infants before and after him.

[Takiedevushkikakzvezdy]

Didn't Elio say a while back that people "aren't thinking enough" about Aerion Brightflame? Whatever that means.

[Megorova]

18 hours ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

Didn't Elio say a while back that people "aren't thinking enough" about Aerion Brightflame? Whatever that means.

According to what GRRM in SSM said about Aerion - during his exile in Lys Aerion fathered there several bastards.

So, in my opinion, could be that the mother of Illyrio Mopatis was one of those bastards. And maybe Illyrio's father was a descendant of that Saera Targaryen's son, who looked like Jaehaerys I - "One of her bastard sons was said to be the very image of Jaehaerys in his youth.^[4]" <- this one.

If my guesses are correct, then Aerion's child indeed was an important character, though it was one of his bastards, and not Maegor. And the role of that other child is that she (or he) was a parent of the other important character - Illyrio, though not an important character all on his/her own. Or something like that.

[Lord Varys]

On 1/22/2022 at 8:25 PM, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

Didn't Elio say a while back that people "aren't thinking enough" about Aerion Brightflame? Whatever that means.

That was in context of the question where exactly Aerion stood during the Third Blackfyre Rebellion. Folks do assume the guy is team Targaryen just because of his name ... but we have literally no reason to assume the man is welcome at court in the wake of Aerys I's rise to the throne. Maekar/Baelor exiled him in 209 AC - but Baelor and Daeron II died, and a prince took the throne who didn't want to be king. A prince who also has troubles with Maekar. That Aerion's exile must last for the bulk of the reign of Aerys I is thus not exactly unlikely. It could also explain why he married as late as he apparently did marry.

Chances aren't bad that it might turn out that Aerion was in cahoots with Haegon Blackfyre at the time, and later pretended it was all an elaborate trap because his betrayal of Haegon was crucial in ensuring a Targaryen victory.

[The Bard of Banefort]

If Maegor led a revolt against uncle Aegon, I think it would have come up in the conversations in the main series about Aerion and the Blackfyres. Stannis mentions Rhaenyra trying to overthrow Aegon II, “though she was a king’s daughter,” but never mentions anything about Maegor, who technically had a better claim than Egg, both by being Aerion’s legitimate son and Rhaegal’s grandson. It doesn’t sound like he caused the crown much trouble, poor kid.

[Lord Varys]

59 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

If Maegor led a revolt against uncle Aegon, I think it would have come up in the conversations in the main series about Aerion and the Blackfyres. Stannis mentions Rhaenyra trying to overthrow Aegon II, “though she was a king’s daughter,” but never mentions anything about Maegor, who technically had a better claim than Egg, both by being Aerion’s legitimate son and Rhaegal’s grandson. It doesn’t sound like he caused the crown much trouble, poor kid.

It could have come up ... and perhaps it even should have come up. But things are conditional on George knowing about his story at the point of writing.

Just think about FaB - Aerea and Elissa and Rhaena's entire story should have been high points in TWoIaF, too - but they weren't because George had yet to write those stories.

Technically, we could and should have heard a lot about Egg's reign and actions as early as AGoT - it was a rather recent reign, many people still remembered it, but so far we have very little information about those rebellions, etc. despite the fact that the likes of Jon Arryn, Rickard Stark, Hoster Tully, etc. might have directly or indirectly involved.

If you want an in-universe reason why Stannis may have bothered with Rhaenyra and Daemon Blackfyre in a rant about traitors but not Prince Maegor then the fact that the Baratheons stood with Aegon II against Rhaenyra and Daeron II against Daemon could explain this. Not to mention that Lyonel Baratheon and his family wouldn't have been that close to Aegon V in the wake of the entire Duncan fiasco. It might even be that Lyonel and Ormund after him opposed some of Egg's reforms despite the Rhaelle betrothal/marriage.

[Takiedevushkikakzvezdy]

2 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

That was in context of the question where exactly Aerion stood during the Third Blackfyre Rebellion. Folks do assume the guy is team Targaryen just because of his name ... but we have literally no reason to assume the man is welcome at court in the wake of Aerys I's rise to the throne. Maekar/Baelor exiled him in 209 AC - but Baelor and Daeron II died, and a prince took the throne who didn't want to be king. A prince who also has troubles with Maekar. That Aerion's exile must last for the bulk of the reign of Aerys I is thus not exactly unlikely. It could also explain why he married as late as he apparently did marry.

Chances aren't bad that it might turn out that Aerion was in cahoots with Haegon Blackfyre at the time, and later pretended it was all an elaborate trap because his betrayal of Haegon was crucial in ensuring a Targaryen victory.

Oh, I see. But in ADWD, Moqorro mentioned "dragons bright and dark", which could mean that the Brightflames (?) and the Blackfyres are involved in the main story somehow. fAegon could obviously be a Blackfyre, but it's a bit tricky to make a Brightflame connection here. 

[Lord Varys]

9 minutes ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

Oh, I see. But in ADWD, Moqorro mentioned "dragons bright and dark", which could mean that the Brightflames (?) and the Blackfyres are involved in the main story somehow. fAegon could obviously be a Blackfyre, but it's a bit tricky to make a Brightflame connection here. 

You don't have to interpret that dragon talk figuratively. Some of the dragons Moqorro mentions might be people, others could be references to Dany's actual dragons - and two of them do qualify as 'bright and dark dragons' - Viserion is a bright dragon, Drogon are dark dragon.

Insofar as the metaphorical talk about 'dragons as people' is concerned we should limit those to actual members of the family, i.e. Targaryens/Blackfyres, perhaps the sons of women from those families, and then also, perhaps, acknowledged bastards.

The idea that grandchildren through the female line or the children and grandchildren of bastards should also qualify as dragons would be a stretch - especially in a throw-away line by a Volantene like Moqorro. Then Robert and Stannis and Renly would also qualify as dragons, possibly even the Martells and the Plumms - and that's clearly not intended by the text.

I maintain, for instance, that Aegon doesn't really qualify as a dragon if he were an obscure Blackfyre descendant through the female line. That prophecy talk may refer to him as the mummer's dragon or depict him as such would then have to do everything with his claim to be Rhaegar's son and nothing with his actual identity.

[Takiedevushkikakzvezdy]

1 hour ago, Lord Varys said:

I maintain, for instance, that Aegon doesn't really qualify as a dragon if he were an obscure Blackfyre descendant through the female line.

I'll have to disagree here. The story about the black dragon head that became red with rust is a solid hint that a Blackfyre is masquerading as a Targaryen. Also, if we take the "dragons as people" interpretation of Moqorro's speech, he is the only one who could possibly qualify as a false dragon, IMHO.

[Lord Varys]

16 hours ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

I'll have to disagree here. The story about the black dragon head that became red with rust is a solid hint that a Blackfyre is masquerading as a Targaryen. Also, if we take the "dragons as people" interpretation of Moqorro's speech, he is the only one who could possibly qualify as a false dragon, IMHO.

Figuratively, this might still be the case, although unless Illyrio and Yandel both lied the Blackfyres are extinct in the male line, so there no longer are any Blackfyres, period. You can just as well take the rusted dragon as a symbol for the Golden Company to be so fucked up that the black dragon they usually support turned into a red dragon due to their desperation to get back home.

But I'm definitely not going to go with something being rusted as a symbol for a sneaky disguise. It is a clear sign of decline.

I don't think Moqorro's speech can refer only to 'dragons as people' because Moqorro himself would have seen only dragons in his flames. They could all symbolize people, only some could be people, or none of them could be people.