Sansa's Marriage Dilemma or Marriageception

[The Bard of Banefort]

1 minute ago, Angel Eyes said:

Jonsa as a ship has been around at least since at least 2008 per Archive of Our Own, but really took off around Season 6 of the show, particularly after Jon was revealed to be Sansa's cousin. Main reasons for this seemed to be better chemistry between Harington and Turner on the one side and the fact that Jon was the only main male character in her age group who is nice to her.

Yeah, I can see that. Plus the show was trying to evoke the Ned-Cat visual parallels pretty hard. The complete lack of chemistry between Jon and Dany didn’t help either. (Most of the Jonerys shippers I’ve seen seem to ship more of the idea of the characters together than the way the actors played them). The weird thing is, show-Jon more or less killed Dany to protect Sansa (that’s how Tyrion convinced him, by saying his sisters would never kneel to Dany) but they didn’t have any kind of romantic relationship, so everyone kind of lost there lol.

41 minutes ago, EggBlue said:

I've got half a hunch that Tysha's fisherman's wife in Bravos  I don't know why that came to me!

After what happened to Tysha, I don’t think she’d really want to be with Tyrion anymore. She probably wants him to know that Tywin was lying and that her love for him was real, but I doubt she longs for him. He’s inextricably linked to pain and trauma for her.

[The Lord of the Crossing]

6 hours ago, Corvo the Crow said:

LF wants to marry Sansa to Ser Harry the Hair and will probably do so with the assumption of Tyrion is dead, but when Tyrion comes back to Westeros, her marriage to Harry would be annulled or whatever as it can't have been done since Tyrion, her husband was alive still... but on the other hand, Tyrion himself has married before and though Tywin goldshitter has all but shat on his wife's honor by having her gang raped and paid and then claimed that she was a prostitute and the marriage was a sham, Jaime reveals this was all a lie, Tyrion himself knows that his marriage was real, so that makes his marriage to Sansa invalid as well. In that case, what would be the status of Sansa's marriage to Hairy the Heir?

 

Oh and one more thing... Where do we fit Jon in all this 

Tywin must have had his marriage to Tysha annulled.  Only a king can do that.  But Tywin's gold can buy that kind of cooperation.  Tywin and Sansa never consummated their marriage so it is not a strong union.  Tyrion has matured just a little bit and I do not believe he will be attracted to the airhead Sansa.  He will be glad to have that marriage annulled.  But it may not come to that.  If Cersei gets her hands on Sansa, her head will come off. 

JonArya is a love complication which originally involved Tyrion.  I believe this will involve Gendry-Arya-Jon.  As has always been the case, the Stark dies when they get involved with the stags.  Arya will die.  A duel between Gendry and Jon would be lots of fun.  I do not expect Jon to lose because it's hard to kill a wight.  The hammer loses to the sword. Ice over the stag. 

[Takiedevushkikakzvezdy]

1 hour ago, The Lord of the Crossing said:

Tywin must have had his marriage to Tysha annulled. 

Yeah, given that Tywin was fine with marrying Tyrion to Sansa it either annulled or maybe even not recognized at all, given how young Tyrion was at the time.

[Harry the Hair]

LF asked for her hand in marriage when the Willas Tyrell betrothal plot was exposed. I wonder what his plan would’ve been if his request was granted; though I think he pulled a classic ask for something crazy first and then negotiate down towards what you really want. But it would’ve been interesting to see how his plans would have changed. Personally I think he really does want to keep her all to himself. LF once challenged Brandon Stark for Cat’s hand so there is a bit of a romantic in him in the sense that he might do something irrational for love.
 

Agreed that the whole marry Hairy the Hare affair will never happen, especially if he dies of a jousting “accident” or if he actually manages to win some wings then he has to stay single for 3 years (or until Sweetrobin croaks but I think he’ll live until 100 just to spite his haters). 

[Corvo the Crow]

10 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

If Tysha still lives in the Westerlands (and given that she’s a commoner, she probably does) there’s always a possibility that she and Jaime will cross paths at some point. Lord knows he runs into everyone else.

Braavos.

[Corvo the Crow]

9 hours ago, EggBlue said:

I've got half a hunch that Tysha's fisherman's wife in Bravos  I don't know why that came to me!

Yes Lanna is obviously a Lannister’s and Sailor’s Wife’s “marriage” practices make it obvious it’s Tyrion, not Gerion as some suggest.

 

8 hours ago, Aejohn the Conqueroo said:

LOL. I'm not even sure what the story's about.  is it a Targaryen Restoration? The return of magic to the world? The end of magic? Is it the story of the Stark kids or is it all about the invasion of the others? Something else entirely?

LF’s ancestors are from braavos, even his sigil is the Titan. We have a few things that MAY suggest Valyrian ancestry, such as his eye color being shared with only one character, Aurane Waters, but then a) we don’t know who Aurane’s mother was and b) even if his eyes came from Valyrian ancestors, Petyr can very well get his eyes from his Braavosi ancestor’s as well since plenty of Valyrians were among the slaves.

[chrisdaw]

Forget about Harry, Harry isn't long for this earth, or Westerearth, whatever we are calling it. Harry is as dead as Ned. Here is the point to Harry. LF is getting careless and not paying attention to his pawns, specifically what SR is thinking and who is in his ear. Sort of like how someone was in Joff's ear and no-one was paying attention to that until he called for Ned's head and fucked a bunch of people's plans. Littlefinger also appears to not be paying attention to Lyn's state of mind, this seems a bit weird to be honest, how LF can not know Lynn's current discontent seems... like a plot hole. Or perhaps he knows full well and has decided it's time to put an end to his relationship with Lyn, in a dead men tell secrets sort of way, which will blow up in his face. The text is making it plain Lyn is an extremely talented fighter and that's not going to be for nothing. Robert Arryn's will and Lynn's desires and his skill at arms are going to conspire to end Harry at the tourney. Young lords getting ideas in their heads and accidental tourney killings, what goes around comes around, and there goes LF's plans. Poof. And all this stupid fucking talk about Sansa's next husband will have been for naught.

The point of Tysha I believe is this. Tyrion is eventually going to become king, and key to him doing so will be Sansa as his queen. And at such a time will step forward Tysha, to claim her husband and that she is truly queen, or at least a shitload of gold to stay quiet. Jaime admits to Tyrion Tysha was not a sham and Tyrion has a pivotal character decision on his hands. A king can not be married to a commoner and Sansa will be important to Tyrion being accepted as king. He can either be king, or he can have his "true" love - Tysha, not both. Which is more important? I suggest the impact of a near decade of peasant life on Tysha's beauty is going to play a more important part than it should. . . And Tywin writ small right? Tywin's lesson was for Tyrion, high Lannisters can not be marrying commoners, so should Tyrion reject Tysha, deny her even, he would be proving Tywin's point.

[Angel Eyes]

15 hours ago, chrisdaw said:

 

The point of Tysha I believe is this. Tyrion is eventually going to become king, and key to him doing so will be Sansa as his queen. And at such a time will step forward Tysha, to claim her husband and that she is truly queen, or at least a shitload of gold to stay quiet. Jaime admits to Tyrion Tysha was not a sham and Tyrion has a pivotal character decision on his hands. A king can not be married to a commoner and Sansa will be important to Tyrion being accepted as king. He can either be king, or he can have his "true" love - Tysha, not both. Which is more important? I suggest the impact of a near decade of peasant life on Tysha's beauty is going to play a more important part than it should. . . And Tywin writ small right? Tywin's lesson was for Tyrion, high Lannisters can not be marrying commoners, so should Tyrion reject Tysha, deny her even, he would be proving Tywin's point.

And yet Tywin married his cousin out of desire and allowed his brother to marry someone multiple tiers lower than he was.

[Julia H.]

On 1/22/2022 at 11:47 AM, chrisdaw said:

The point of Tysha I believe is this. Tyrion is eventually going to become king, and key to him doing so will be Sansa as his queen. And at such a time will step forward Tysha, to claim her husband and that she is truly queen, or at least a shitload of gold to stay quiet. Jaime admits to Tyrion Tysha was not a sham and Tyrion has a pivotal character decision on his hands. A king can not be married to a commoner and Sansa will be important to Tyrion being accepted as king. He can either be king, or he can have his "true" love - Tysha, not both. Which is more important? I suggest the impact of a near decade of peasant life on Tysha's beauty is going to play a more important part than it should. . . And Tywin writ small right? Tywin's lesson was for Tyrion, high Lannisters can not be marrying commoners, so should Tyrion reject Tysha, deny her even, he would be proving Tywin's point.

Not a bad future dilemma, especially if we consider Tyrion's present situation. However, I don't think Tysha would dare to step forward and make such a claim on a Lannister unless she has some  very powerful protection. The way I can see something like the above happening is if Tyrion meets Tysha while still in Essos, tells her that he has killed Tywin to avenge her, and convinces Tysha to follow him back to Westeros. Then, as the situation changes, he may have to face a dilemma like the above - marrying his true love, who has already agreed to follow him back to Westeros (giving up whatever life she had in Essos) or marrying for political advantage. It would be interesting, but I don't know what it would take for Tysha to want to have anything to do with Tyrion again. Tywin's death could be a factor, and also if Tysha has a very Lannister-looking son or daughter (or a son or daughter who looks like Tyrion), she may consider the advantages of Tyrion acknowledging him / her as his legitimate child. But it is also possible that she would never want her child to go near a Lannister.

[Bowen 747]

The point of the Tyrion + Sansa marriage was to show us her character.  She turned away a decent man who could have offered her everything (except a handsome husband) she would need.  Sansa is not going to be a queen of anything.  Right now, she is a bastard who cannot reveal her true identity because she is considered a Kingslayer.  The future does not look bright.  She might get it through that head of hears to make a play for a larger prize but she will hopefully suffer for it. 

[Takiedevushkikakzvezdy]

16 minutes ago, Bowen 747 said:

 She turned away a decent man who could have offered her everything (except a handsome husband) she would need. 

One of the reasons is that she didn't want the Lannisters to have a claim to Winterfell.

[EggBlue]

5 minutes ago, Bowen 747 said:

The point of the Tyrion + Sansa marriage was to show us her character.  She turned away a decent man who could have offered her everything (except a handsome husband) she would need.  Sansa is not going to be a queen of anything.  Right now, she is a bastard who cannot reveal her true identity because she is considered a Kingslayer.  The future does not look bright.  She might get it through that head of hears to make a play for a larger prize but she will hopefully suffer for it. 

I agree that the point of their marriage was to show us their characters but you and I have come to very different conclusions! 

 First of all it is totally acceptable that Sansa loathes her marriage and her husband. not only Tyrion is far from the prince charming of her songs in looks but he is also from the family who have killed her father and are in war with her brother. you can explicitly see that she hates the fact that she is becoming a "Lannister" more than Tyrion as a person in her thoughts. then there's their wedding night .. for anyone to actually try and look at the guy they were forced to marry and stay still just to be dutiful and honorable by the standards she grew up with is quite an achievement. it is also worth mentioning that when Tyrion told her she could have Lancel ( a handsome youth closer to her age) , she recalled that it was Tyrion who was kind to her and that Lannister and Tyrell do not differ really. If you ask me, she is much more than a shallow girl. so, forgive her if she doesn't get some sort of Stockholm Syndrome and doesn't fall for Tyrion! On the other hand, Tyrion's confidence issues makes him see Sansa's sadness as a personal matter and fails to recognize the situation she's stuck in which leads to him hate her for that. 

[Bowen 747]

20 minutes ago, EggBlue said:

I agree that the point of their marriage was to show us their characters but you and I have come to very different conclusions! 

 First of all it is totally acceptable that Sansa loathes her marriage and her husband. not only Tyrion is far from the prince charming of her songs in looks but he is also from the family who have killed her father and are in war with her brother. you can explicitly see that she hates the fact that she is becoming a "Lannister" more than Tyrion as a person in her thoughts. then there's their wedding night .. for anyone to actually try and look at the guy they were forced to marry and stay still just to be dutiful and honorable by the standards she grew up with is quite an achievement. it is also worth mentioning that when Tyrion told her she could have Lancel ( a handsome youth closer to her age) , she recalled that it was Tyrion who was kind to her and that Lannister and Tyrell do not differ really. If you ask me, she is much more than a shallow girl. so, forgive her if she doesn't get some sort of Stockholm Syndrome and doesn't fall for Tyrion! On the other hand, Tyrion's confidence issues makes him see Sansa's sadness as a personal matter and fails to recognize the situation she's stuck in which leads to him hate her for that. 

Argillac's daughter married into the bastard Baratheon clan.  So it is not unexpected for the children of the losing house to marry into the winner or the family chosen by that winner. 

[GMantis]

1 hour ago, Bowen 747 said:

The point of the Tyrion + Sansa marriage was to show us her character.  She turned away a decent man who could have offered her everything (except a handsome husband) she would need.  Sansa is not going to be a queen of anything.  Right now, she is a bastard who cannot reveal her true identity because she is considered a Kingslayer.  The future does not look bright.  She might get it through that head of hears to make a play for a larger prize but she will hopefully suffer for it.

No, the purpose was to show us both of these characters. And Tyrion is revealed as someone who would agree on a forced marriage with a twelve year old out of greed.

Also Sansa didn't turn away anything: she was forced into the marriage (and in fact she preferred Tyrion over the more handsome Lancel when that option was suggested). The idea that she deserves to suffer for not being happy about this is absolutely disgusting.

[The Bard of Banefort]

17 minutes ago, Bowen 747 said:

Argillac's daughter married into the bastard Baratheon clan.  So it is not unexpected for the children of the losing house to marry into the winner or the family chosen by that winner. 

Argillac’s daughter wasn’t the Baratheon’s prisoner for years, and it sounds like she and Orys agreed to the marriage together rather than while being held a knifepoint (Cersei told Sansa it would come to that if she resisted). As someone else mentioned, she did prefer Tyrion to the much handsomer Lancel.

Their marriage is a plot device to prevent any of Littlefinger’s marriage schemes for Sansa from coming to fruition. Because it was never consummated, it can be undone once the plot requires it to be.

[Bowen 747]

20 minutes ago, GMantis said:

No, the purpose was to show us both of these characters. And Tyrion is revealed as someone who would agree on a forced marriage with a twelve year old out of greed.

Also Sansa didn't turn away anything: she was forced into the marriage (and in fact she preferred Tyrion over the more handsome Lancel when that option was suggested). The idea that she deserves to suffer for not being happy about this is absolutely disgusting.

It seems you and I have very different opinions of Sansa.  The marriage revealed Sansa for a shallow, impractical person.  The marriage was interrupted by the assassination of Joffrey.  Perhaps time would have warmed her up to Tyrion.  Or not.

[GMantis]

2 minutes ago, Bowen 747 said:

It seems you and I have very different opinions of Sansa.  The marriage revealed Sansa for a shallow, impractical person.  The marriage was interrupted by the assassination of Joffrey.  Perhaps time would have warmed her up to Tyrion.  Or not.

A shallow person would have been fooled by the superficial kindness by Tyrion and failed to notice that a collaborator in the murder of her family was marrying her to steal her claim on WInterfell. And an impractical person would've agreed to have sex with Tyrion to please him and his family, leading to her murder after she had born the necessary child with which to make that claim. Or, considering her age, she would've been simply died in childbirth.

[Apoplexy]

2 hours ago, Bowen 747 said:

The point of the Tyrion + Sansa marriage was to show us her character.  She turned away a decent man who could have offered her everything (except a handsome husband) she would need.  Sansa is not going to be a queen of anything.  Right now, she is a bastard who cannot reveal her true identity because she is considered a Kingslayer.  The future does not look bright.  She might get it through that head of hears to make a play for a larger prize but she will hopefully suffer for it. 

Calling Tyrion a decent man is pushing it. Sansa knows he is known for frequenting brothels. And his family had killed a lot of Sansa's family. Plus there was no guarantee that Tyrion would protect her from Cersei or Tywin. Sansa not wanting to marry Tyrion wasn't only rooted in vanity. And there is nothing wrong with a young girl wanting a handsome husband. As far as I can remember, Sansa wasnt cruel to Tyrion because he isn't good looking. Wanting her to suffer is a little unreasonable to say the least.

[Angel Eyes]

2 hours ago, EggBlue said:

I agree that the point of their marriage was to show us their characters but you and I have come to very different conclusions! 

 First of all it is totally acceptable that Sansa loathes her marriage and her husband. not only Tyrion is far from the prince charming of her songs in looks but he is also from the family who have killed her father and are in war with her brother. you can explicitly see that she hates the fact that she is becoming a "Lannister" more than Tyrion as a person in her thoughts. then there's their wedding night .. for anyone to actually try and look at the guy they were forced to marry and stay still just to be dutiful and honorable by the standards she grew up with is quite an achievement. it is also worth mentioning that when Tyrion told her she could have Lancel ( a handsome youth closer to her age) , she recalled that it was Tyrion who was kind to her and that Lannister and Tyrell do not differ really. If you ask me, she is much more than a shallow girl. so, forgive her if she doesn't get some sort of Stockholm Syndrome and doesn't fall for Tyrion! On the other hand, Tyrion's confidence issues makes him see Sansa's sadness as a personal matter and fails to recognize the situation she's stuck in which leads to him hate her for that. 

Now Sansa remember The Hound kissing her the night he tried to rape her... that's close to Stockholm Syndrome.

[Apoplexy]

11 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said:

Now Sansa remember The Hound kissing her the night he tried to rape her... that's close to Stockholm Syndrome.

To be fair that was an extremely stressful situation. There are very few reactions to that situation that would surprise me. If Sansa is shown to fall for Sandor with very little further development in their relationship, that would definitely be messed up. But I dont think she is in Stockholm syndrome territory yet.