Watch, Watching, Watch -- Why do movies have to end so soon?

[Ran]

Managed to catch Asghar Farhadi's A Hero, which of course is Iran's submission for Best Foreign Language film (announcements due February 5th). I have a strong feeling it will be among the finalists, and Farhadi may well manage a third win (A Separation, The Salesman). Farhadi is surely one of the greatest directors working today.

A Hero follows Rahim, a man condemned to debtor's prison after a turn of bad luck, who has a potential hope for salvation when an opportunity falls in his lap... and lets just say that no good deed goes unpunished. What unfolds is beautiful and compelling: the background to Rahim's misfortune complicates the picture of his good deed, the way his story is amplified for political ends leads to a backlash, and the slow unravelling as things fall apart. I don't want to give too much away -- it's not a film you can really "spoil", but coming fresh to the tangled, complex histories between some of the characters adds a lot to the film's meaning.

Fine performances all around, especially from Amir Jadidi as Rahim, and Mohsen Tanabandeh as Bahram, his angry creditor who is one of the few people in the film who questions and criticizes Rahim. (He also looks uncannily like Mandy Patinkin's twin, circa his role as Saul on Homeland).

(For history nuts, the opening scenes of the film include a majestic shot of the Persian necropolis at Naqsh-e Rostam, which contains the tomb of Xerxes the Great, among others.)

[HexMachina]

On 1/30/2022 at 3:17 PM, Veltigar said:

I rewatched Van Helsing (2004) yesterday. It had been on my mind for months now, but I was always able to fight the urge. Yesterday I finally caved and damn it, I just do not understand this movie. How can the same film be so awesome and so dumb at the same time?

It's a damn contradictio in terminis or paradox or whatever you want to call it. A shame this didn't do well at the box-office, because I would absolutely turn up for a sequel. I love how it is incredibly campy (the fake Ruritarian accents, Kate Beckinsale's outfit, the Vatican equivalent to Q's workshop in Bond, etc.) and deadly serious at the same time (the dark tone, the epic themes, Van Helsing as the avenging angel send by God and of course the fact that 

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Kate Beckinsale dies at the end of it all.)

I also feel like the CGI and performances have held up remarkably well for a film that is almost 20 years old now. Anyways, you all probably know the film already, but it is still as fun as when I first saw it.

Aside from that I also managed to finish My Fair Lady (1964). I think I started it a fortnight ago, eager to delete another classic from my watchlist, but it is such an utterly repugnant film that I had to switch it off a few times and then let it rest for a lazy Sunday before I could finish it. 

I know I'll probably get flack for this, as it is seen as one of the great classic films, but I was flabbergasted throughout the entire thing. Seldom have I ever seen a film that was this brazen about its noxious ideology. They should just rename this to "MRA: The Movie" or "Red Pill Origins" or something along those lines because that is pretty much what it boils down too (although it also has some hideous things to say about class and linguistics).

Every incel should probably have a poster of the lead male character Henry Higgins on his walls because that guy is living their dream. He behaves like an entitled, arrogant and self-indulgent tool throughout the film and at the end he is rewarded with a beautiful, ideal and submissive woman whom he naturally had to create for himself, as you can't expect the girl to do that herself. I really felt a little bit dirty thinking that this film is not even 50 years old and that at that time it was popular enough to win major awards and break the box office.

It's also curious to see how this is still watched without some pretty big caveats. No one today would even think of recommending e.g. Birth of a Nation (1915) or Triumph des Willens (1935) without some serious introductory commentary on the ideas behind the films. This however gets a free pass, which is a shame, as unlike the others it is also just a pretty poor film without any major contributions to the art of cinema.

It's glacially paced, every set looks fake and the songs are just completely forgettable. Audrey Hepburn is also insufferable in perhaps the entire first quarter of the film, shrieking like a hellish vampire bride from Van Helsing rather than behaving like a real person. The one saving grace for me comes from the costuming department. Hepburn wears some outfits in the latter half of the film that are just outstanding.

Van Helsing is so over the top and campy while still being dark and brooding and I love every minute of it. It is (was?) on Netflix when I renewed my subscription to watch something last year and I immediately put it on.

It was also one of those (this is a bit specific to the UK forum dwellers) Saturday night ITV 2 movies that were always on as I was growing up and it has some nostalgia value for that too.

On 1/30/2022 at 9:16 PM, Veltigar said:

Just finished watching Encanto (2021), Disney's latest. It was alright. Pretty middle of the road stuff, but I enjoyed it regardless. I do feel like they could have done more with it and I was actually more interested in the backstory of Abuela and Pedro than in anything that took place during the film's actual timeline.

For me there were three major problems. The first is the same thing I have with every one of these movies, namely I just don't like this computer animation. Some great films like Soul make it work, but the Tangled's and Encanto's of the world make it painfully clear that the older drawn stuff was so much better. [b]The second was the fact that I thought the music was pretty unmemorable.[/b] It's the first time I watch anything Lin-Manuel Miranda related that didn't have at least one memorable song in it.

The third story had to do with the actual story

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In my opinion, the conflict with grandmother was not drawn clearly enough. I can imagine a version of this film that is much darker, like the TIm Burton Sleepy Hollow version of this tale, but if we have to go for the kumbaya version of the story I think they should have made the grandmother's stifling perfectionism a little more obvious.

 

I see you don't talk about Bruno....

I actually really enjoyed it. Only watched it once but the music has been stuck in my head since and I find myself humming it while I'm sitting doing work.

@Jaxom 1974 also made some good points about the heroine being the most 'ordinary' of the cast which was a pretty refreshing change. But really the whole film just grabbed me in a way I didn't expect.

[WarGalley]

I finished Squid Game. Very entertaining. I wasn't quite sure how they'd pull off a second season without things becoming repetitive, or the show turning into a contest of most cruel game ever, but the last episode worked for me even if I thought it was a tad unbelievable. 

Finished The Expanse. The final episode had great visuals and action but it still didn't feel like a series finale though I suppose it's not supposed to.  Still, great adaptation of the books from start to finish even if I yearn for more. Halfway through the season, I was convinced they had a backroom deal with GRRM or someone on continuing the series somewhere else but since news hasn't broken yet, I guess I'm wrong.

Also watched the first episode of the new season of Ozark. I wish they would change directions with Wendy's character. She acts more immature than her teenage kids.

[Spockydog]

Watched the first episode of Archive 81 on Netflix. This is pretty intriguing. Got a cool, low-key vibe with some Lovecraftian themes. Looking forward to seeing where it goes.

[TheLastWolf]

5 hours ago, Zorral said:

7 hours ago, Jaxom 1974 said:

This one, along with a couple others, like Ben Hur, get regular re-watches from me every three to four years.  There's something about those marathon length classics...

Ya.  The first time watching Cleopatra, beside being struck by  the stage mode delivery of their lines by several of the actors, which, as several of them  were indeed stage actors before acting in the movies was How We Do It -- I was struck by how much more natural/easy actors of my present day appeared to be in the short military tunics showing so much leg, and in sandals than these classic fellow of the theater. 

I think Cleopatra was the first dvd I ever bought.  It was on sale at Tower Video Rental, I think.

I think apart from the three leads, the one playing Octavian just lived the role, apathy and menace

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

The King on Netflix. 

My English history is spotty as hell so I had no idea if this film was supposed to be historical or what period this took place in. Then there was one line in the film and I said out loud:

Spoiler

This is the battle of Agincourt?!?

Because I kinda knew how that Turned out. I also didn't realize this was back in t he days when the king could basically do what he wanted. That features in this as well. 

Timothee Chalamet is a skinny little murder machine in this one. I wasn't expecting that. I have high hopes for Dune Part 2.

Great Film. 

[Fury Resurrected]

10 hours ago, Nictarion said:

The Righteous Gemstones is really killing it this season. I thought the actor that played young Nucky Thompson on the final season of Boardwalk Empire did a great job mimicking Steve Buscemi, but the kid who played young Jesse in this Xmas Gemstones flashback was just uncanny how well he did Danny McBride. Young Judy was a lot of fun, too. 

That kid was phenomenal at Danny McBride and they did a good job de-aging John Goodman too

[Toth]

Every year at around the same time I'm watching a few clips of TRON with my programming beginners classes to then go and program the lightcycle game and everytime I myself end up pulling out TRON: Legacy and TRON: Uprising and immersing myself in the lore, only to get upset how Disney just lets the franchise whither and die. Whyyyyy? Why would they do so? Why end this on such a cliffhanger and even cancel the prequel show. It's a damn shame...

Yesterday I stumbled across an old interview with Bruce Boxleitner from 2015 in which he's basically just ranting about the exact same thing, angrily saying that he's done with the franchise because he's tired of getting called up every 20 years for a continuation, putting his entire heart into it because he loves the setting and sees all the potential in it to become something big and unique and then it gets the axe again. Frustrating to see that even if it gets revived one day, they will probably not getting Tron himself back... which could be worked around, but unfortunately, Alan has such a central role in the real-world storyline that I don't see it working without him. Interestingly Boxleitner also suspected Disney killed Tron because they don't want it to compete with Star Wars...

[john]

For All Mankind season 2 episode 8, generally a very good show with a few moments of clumsy writing but the climax of this episode really takes the biscuit.

Spoiler

The American astronauts wear a card fixed to their wrist with basic phrases in Russian but the Russian cosmonauts (who used to be trained in speaking English but apparently abandoned that class as the program developed) keep their card in a large box that looks like it could contain a gun. What could possibly go wrong?

 

[Veltigar]

13 hours ago, HelenaExMachina said:

Van Helsing is so over the top and campy while still being dark and brooding and I love every minute of it. It is (was?) on Netflix when I renewed my subscription to watch something last year and I immediately put it on.

It was also one of those (this is a bit specific to the UK forum dwellers) Saturday night ITV 2 movies that were always on as I was growing up and it has some nostalgia value for that too.

I feel like we should open a Van Helsing fanclub. This film needs a reappraisal so that we can get a nonsensical streaming company to come in and pay them a billion dollars to make a long overdue sequel XD

13 hours ago, HelenaExMachina said:

I see you don't talk about Bruno....

Absolutely, it's one Sacha Baron Cohen project I would like to forget 

16 hours ago, Jaxom 1974 said:

Whaaaa...?  Interesting.  I'm gonna go ahead and vehemently disagree with both those first two points.  There is something special about the old school, hand drawn animation; there I agree, however, the stuff they're doing now though?  It's gotten progressively better with each and every movie in the last dozen years or so. 

I'm definitely willing to acknowledge just how subjective my first point is. The "hand-drawn" stuff is superior in so many ways for me, despite the increases in technical quality that these Pixar-style films have experienced over the years. Although I probably need to specify even further. Lilo & Stitch was also "hand-drawn" (not exactly the best name for the style, because computers were already heavily involved) and that's also crap.

I just feel most major American animation studios have sort of lost their ways over the years. Occasionally there is a Soul or a Wreck-It-Ralph but I miss the more classic Disney Renaissance and Golden Era projects.

For the music, I guess my major clarification would be there that I can't really tell you the lyrics of any song apart from the Bruno one. I was working during the film and normally the music draws me in so that I end up taking pauses, but here I basically was able to maintain my focus on the work perfectly.

16 hours ago, Jaxom 1974 said:

In all though, I was struck on how the heroine was, essentially, the most ordinary person among the special family.  And despite that, despite not having a magical gift bestowed upon her, she proved to be the most remarkable one of them all.  She wasn't a princess.  She didn't become a princess.  She was gifted in a such a way that she didn't even know she was gifted.  And how she went about things and solved things...and most importantly how that seems to have resonated with my 10 year old daughter...that's the most amazing aspect of it all.  

Depends on how you frame it I guess. There are only two characters directly interacting with Casita and that's our heroine and her grandmother. The lead character might not have direct superpowers, but given the fact that the candle and the house are the incubator for the magic, I guess she's clearly very special. It's only that the characters around her are too shortsighted to notice. 

And at the end of the day, she's a member of a magical family living in the grandest house in town. She might not be a literal princess, but I guess she's not that different when you think about it.

 

[Jaxom 1974]

18 minutes ago, Veltigar said:

 

I'm definitely willing to acknowledge just how subjective my first point is. The "hand-drawn" stuff is superior in so many ways for me, despite the increases in technical quality that these Pixar-style films have experienced over the years. Although I probably need to specify even further. Lilo & Stitch was also "hand-drawn" (not exactly the best name for the style, because computers were already heavily involved) and that's also crap.

I just feel most major American animation studios have sort of lost their ways over the years. Occasionally there is a Soul or a Wreck-It-Ralph but I miss the more classic Disney Renaissance and Golden Era projects.

For the music, I guess my major clarification would be there that I can't really tell you the lyrics of any song apart from the Bruno one. I was working during the film and normally the music draws me in so that I end up taking pauses, but here I basically was able to maintain my focus on the work perfectly.

Depends on how you frame it I guess. There are only two characters directly interacting with Casita and that's our heroine and her grandmother. The lead character might not have direct superpowers, but given the fact that the candle and the house are the incubator for the magic, I guess she's clearly very special. It's only that the characters around her are too shortsighted to notice. 

And at the end of the day, she's a member of a magical family living in the grandest house in town. She might not be a literal princess, but I guess she's not that different when you think about it.

 

Oh dear...and Lilo & Stitch is still one of my top three Disney movies, if not number 1...

And one of those YouTubers who analyze and dissect anything and everything incessantly that my kids watch posited a theory that Mirabel didn't receive a direct magical gift as she was designated to take over for Abuela Alma later on down the line...it's a nice theory, might even be true...but it doesn't detract from the message that even those who are seemingly ordinary on the surface can still be capable of extraordinary things...

[Veltigar]

17 minutes ago, Jaxom 1974 said:

Oh dear...and Lilo & Stitch is still one of my top three Disney movies, if not number 1...

And one of those YouTubers who analyze and dissect anything and everything incessantly that my kids watch posited a theory that Mirabel didn't receive a direct magical gift as she was designated to take over for Abuela Alma later on down the line...it's a nice theory, might even be true...but it doesn't detract from the message that even those who are seemingly ordinary on the surface can still be capable of extraordinary things...

I mean it's exactly the bolded. Got to keep that inherited power safe from the hoi-polloi after all.

The point I would further add is that she's also clearly not ordinary on the surface. Not in comparison to the powerless rubes living in the village (after all she is a member of the magic dynasty living in the magic house), but also not in comparison to her own family as she has the greatest connection to the magical house (which is why she's the only one directly interacting with it, apart from grandma).

The fact that no one of the other characters notices her singular connection to the house as her power is a glaring plot hole, not a proof of the fact that she's a champion of the people.

[Jaxom 1974]

Why do you hate life, Veltigar...? 

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

10 hours ago, Toth said:

Every year at around the same time I'm watching a few clips of TRON with my programming beginners classes to then go and program the lightcycle game and everytime I myself end up pulling out TRON: Legacy and TRON: Uprising and immersing myself in the lore, only to get upset how Disney just lets the franchise whither and die. Whyyyyy? Why would they do so? Why end this on such a cliffhanger and even cancel the prequel show. It's a damn shame...

50% according to the vegetable consensus. Modest box office ($400m vs. a production budget of $170m). Limited merchandising opportunities compared to the stuff Disney is currently pouring their efforts into.

I'm not a huge Tron geek but I did buy a ticket back in 2010 and I really enjoyed the film. I hope it gets resurrected in some form. Although I think we might be entering a period where Hollywoods affinity for existing IP's is having diminishing returns. 

Tangentially, this is the reason we haven't seen a Kelvin timeline Star Trek film in a while. Though it never generated much online discussion, the first two films were only modestly profitable and the third film probably lost money at the box office. There are rumors of a new film in development, which I can only assume has something to do with interest generated by the current crop of television shows. Whether or not it's a Kelvin timeline movie or a reboot is an open question. 

[Mindwalker]

The Responder. Another British police drama, but much better than Trigger Point. Actually, in a whole different league. Martin Freeman is fantastic as a troubled (and somewhat bent) copper. Pretty dark so far. I have a hard time with the accent though.

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

Love and Monsters:

I must be the only person in the universe who has mixed feelings about this film. On balance I'd have to say my position on it is slightly negative. Maybe I'm not in the demographic. If I had to guess; the film was made for 13 year olds. 

+'s: Some compelling characters, some really good VFX and cinematography and a few genuinely scary monsters. Nothing pulls at my heart strings like putting a dog in mortal danger.

-'s: a really curious tone considering the film opens with "95% of the population was wiped out in a year". Not nearly as funny or satirical as something like Zombieland (a far better film). Also some curiously random decision making from several characters. The central premise of the film just sort of evaporated like a popcorn fart and for like, no reason. Totally random Chekhov's gun that comes out of nowhere. Needed more Rooker.

[Toth]

11 hours ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

50% according to the vegetable consensus. Modest box office ($400m vs. a production budget of $170m). Limited merchandising opportunities compared to the stuff Disney is currently pouring their efforts into.

Sure, it was critically panned when it came out (even though it pioneered the de-aging process now used for Star Wars), but limited merchandising opportunities? In a franchise that is this visually striking and has so many iconic toys?

I'm the last to deny that Legacy didn't have problems. The first movie was at times extremely slow, but then again it was mostly about journeying through the Grid and taking in the visuals. Legacy was the opposite, rushing from plot point to plot point while hurling exposition at you, barely taking time to step back and breath live into the characters. Sam was especially infuriating in how flat he was and how his skill-set was all over the place. Then again, in a lot of ways Tron has been quite like Star Wars: Great setting, great visuals, great ideas, AMAZING soundtrack, not really the best execution.

It's also notable that Clu's rise is one of the most literal Nazi analogues that I can think of that is this far removed from reality, focusing not on the visual Hugo Boss surface level, but instead on the genocide to gain a goal of ethnic purity. I guess the argument can be made that truly engaging with this narrative makes it maybe a bit too grim for a Disney property. And yet think of the messages you can tell with this, especially Clu's playing on the programs' existing prejudices towards the ISOs, to help implement his regime. Uprising went out of his way to show that many programs were not reformatted, but were following him quite willingly, eating up his propaganda about ISO's being dangerous wastes of resources.

On a related note: I also saw the rumors struck up by Jared Leto that he said he has been in talks about starring in a Tron reboot (that pointedly wouldn't be the cancelled Tron: Ascension continuation to Legacy)... that is in 'cryogenic freeze' and could be made any moment now, but isn't. I feel like Boxleitner's concerns about getting called up and left hanging have proven quite prophetic in regards to Leto's story.

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

17 minutes ago, Toth said:

Sure, it was critically panned when it came out (even though it pioneered the de-aging process now used for Star Wars), but limited merchandising opportunities? In a franchise that is this visually striking and has so many iconic toys?

Well, it isn't Star Wars and it isn't the MCU. Ultimately the question is, why would you spend $200-$300 million in production and marketing on this when you could spend it on one of those things? Tron has aways been a bit of a red headed stepchild I'm afraid. Plus the Matrix films came along in the late '90's and riffed on many of those same themes, which probably didn't help.

And yeah, the soundtrack was amazing. It's too bad Daft Punk didn't do more film scores. 

If memory serves, Bruce Boxleitner may have even passed on other lucrative work at one time or another because of the development hell related to Tron. I don't blame him for having sour grapes. 

[Veltigar]

21 hours ago, Jaxom 1974 said:

Why do you hate life, Veltigar...? 

Hate the game, not the player Jaxom 

[Jaxom 1974]

5 hours ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

Well, it isn't Star Wars and it isn't the MCU. Ultimately the question is, why would you spend $200-$300 million in production and marketing on this when you could spend it on one of those things? Tron has aways been a bit of a red headed stepchild I'm afraid. Plus the Matrix films came along in the late '90's and riffed on many of those same themes, which probably didn't help.

And yeah, the soundtrack was amazing. It's too bad Daft Punk didn't do more film scores. 

If memory serves, Bruce Boxleitner may have even passed on other lucrative work at one time or another because of the development hell related to Tron. I don't blame him for having sour grapes. 

Tron has always had potential, but no one has ever known what to do with it.  

At this point, it's best angle is going to likely be animation.