Epic fantasy the last 5-6 years, nothing great?

[Derfel Cadarn]

On 8/26/2022 at 7:05 PM, Rhom said:

I think the era of the door stopper fantasy has essentially passed though.  (If that’s what you’re referencing.) 

Other than Sanderson, I don’t really see anyone else writing the 1000 page epics that were once the norm.

Due to costs, publishers are wary of such sized books unless sure of getting their money back.

Splitting it into two books means less ink and paper, and more books sold.

 

[Werthead]

Paper and production costs are currently through the roof, which is why Tad Williams had to split his latest book and why there seems to be growing confidence that The Winds of Winter will be split even if it's around the same size as ADWD and ASoS, let alone being 20% longer as GRRM seems to be projecting.

Edited August 30, 2022 by Werthead

[Gigei]

I was reading The Shadow of What Was Lost then stopped because there was a long travel arc. I no longer have enough patience to read that.  The story so far wasn't wowing me anyway.

[One-Winged Balrog]

On 8/30/2022 at 11:39 PM, Werthead said:

Paper and production costs are currently through the roof, which is why Tad Williams had to split his latest book and why there seems to be growing confidence that The Winds of Winter will be split even if it's around the same size as ADWD and ASoS, let alone being 20% longer as GRRM seems to be projecting.

Isn't it weird that this is still a concern in the Internet age?

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

11 minutes ago, One-Winged Balrog said:

Isn't it weird that this is still a concern in the Internet age?

Not if you prefer Books to e-Readers… which many people (me included) do.

[Larry of the Lake]

6 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Not if you prefer Books to e-Readers… which many people (me included) do.

didn't mean to quote you Scot but can't delete this on the phone for some reason... but riffing on what wert said:

What's the cost benefit of splitting it if paper/production costs are high?  Two smaller books are cheaper than one large one?  Or is it just about the publisher recouping production costs asap/ not having a bigger initial overhead?

Edited September 2, 2022 by Larry of the Lake

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Just now, Larry of the Lake said:

didn't mean to quote you Scot but can't delete this on the phone for some reason... but riffing on what wert said:

What's the cost benefit of splitting it if paper/production costs are high?  Two smaller books are cheaper than one large one? 

 a good question.  I suspect successfully binding very large books gets more expensive.

[Werthead]

1 hour ago, One-Winged Balrog said:

Isn't it weird that this is still a concern in the Internet age?

Considering that paper books still make up ~80% of the market (and ebook share has dropped in the last few years, although losing out more to audio than paper), it's eminently sensible.

1 hour ago, Larry of the Lake said:

didn't mean to quote you Scot but can't delete this on the phone for some reason... but riffing on what wert said:

What's the cost benefit of splitting it if paper/production costs are high?  Two smaller books are cheaper than one large one?  Or is it just about the publisher recouping production costs asap/ not having a bigger initial overhead?

Recouping. A very large hardcover you might get away with charging £5/$5 extra for, but for two hardcovers at normal price you're basically charging 100% extra to cover the costs.

Also, if they split the book releases across two financial years, they give themselves a glowing quarter or a good year for two years in a row.

[One-Winged Balrog]

20 minutes ago, Werthead said:

2 hours ago, One-Winged Balrog said:

 

Considering that paper books still make up ~80% of the market (and ebook share has dropped in the last few years, although losing out more to audio than paper), it's eminently sensible.

Well, that's what I meant - isn't it weird that ebooks haven't won over yet? People sure are old-fashioned when it comes to reading.

[dog-days]

*shrugs* I still prefer paper books, and I'm not that ancient. My brain mostly files digital text as "disposable - do not attempt to retain for later reference" so anything that I need to learn I prefer on paper. Quite a bit of research has been done on online vs print reading styles. 

Plus, I need to read digital text a lot for my job and work on a laptop all day, and many regular readers probably do the same. A paper book can signify fun, leisure and time-off from the grind. 

[Werthead]

1 hour ago, One-Winged Balrog said:

Well, that's what I meant - isn't it weird that ebooks haven't won over yet? People sure are old-fashioned when it comes to reading.

I spend all day on a computer for work and a lot of other time on the computer for other things, so I sure as hell am not spending my reading time on a screen as well.

The last ebook I read and the only ebook I've ever read was an e-ARC of A Dance with Dragons, because that was the only option available to read the book at the time. That was (obviously) over a decade ago now.

Edited September 2, 2022 by Werthead

[One-Winged Balrog]

55 minutes ago, dog-days said:

*shrugs* I still prefer paper books, and I'm not that ancient. My brain mostly files digital text as "disposable - do not attempt to retain for later reference" so anything that I need to learn I prefer on paper. Quite a bit of research has been done on online vs print reading styles. 

Plus, I need to read digital text a lot for my job and work on a laptop all day, and many regular readers probably do the same. A paper book can signify fun, leisure and time-off from the grind. 

6 minutes ago, Werthead said:

I spend all day on a computer for work and a lot of other time on the computer for other things, so I sure as hell am not spending my reading time on a screen as well.

The last ebook I read and the only ebook I've ever read was an e-ARC of A Dance with Dragons, because that was the only option available to read the book at the time. That was (obviously) over a decade ago now.

I agree that reading on a computer screen is generally less comfortable, but what about a ebook reader? I still have a 2nd generation Kindle, and honestly for me it's better than a paper book most of the times, because it is lighter (especially when reading a brick like ASOIAF). 95% of paper books I've bought in the last decade or so were large format comic books, as an adequate large color ebook reader doesn't exist yet.

[Ser Not Appearing]

1 hour ago, One-Winged Balrog said:

Well, that's what I meant - isn't it weird that ebooks haven't won over yet? People sure are old-fashioned when it comes to reading.

I stopped buying ebooks when I realized they were all, always and forever, full price. It angers me and I don't like supporting it, plus I can get cheaper buying used paperback.

I imagine many others like me. Partly because that's what ego does but mostly because it's truly cheaper to go paperback unless you're buying brand new releases.

Edited September 2, 2022 by Ser Not Appearing

[Rhom]

16 minutes ago, Werthead said:

I spend all day on a computer for work and a lot of other time on the computer for other things, so I sure as hell am not spending my reading time on a screen as well.

The last ebook I read and the only ebook I've ever read was an e-ARC of A Dance with Dragons, because that was the only option available to read the book at the time. That was (obviously) over a decade ago now.

I have a Kindle that came with big blue rubber bumpers we bought for my son when he was very little.  I have now removed the rubber bumpers and wiped it clean... I use it when an author has a short story they only release in eformat.  Read a Mark Lawrence story that way and I think maybe a Sanderson.

I would never read a full novel on it.

[Rhom]

On 9/1/2022 at 6:52 AM, Gigei said:

I was reading The Shadow of What Was Lost then stopped because there was a long travel arc. I no longer have enough patience to read that.  The story so far wasn't wowing me anyway.

Fair enough.  That adequately describes much of the first book.  The second and third get away from it and into the bigger metaphysical questions.  But when reading time is limited, I understand not wanting to spend time on a travelogue.

[Ninefingers]

10 minutes ago, Ser Not Appearing said:

I stopped buying ebooks when I realized they were all, always and forever, full price. It angers me and I don't like supporting it, plus I can get cheaper buying used paperback.

I imagine many others like me. Partly because that's what ego does but mostly because it's truly cheaper to go paperback unless you're buying brand new releases.

That's me too. $10.99 for an e-book is obnoxious, and I refuse to participate. 

[One-Winged Balrog]

1 hour ago, Ser Not Appearing said:

I stopped buying ebooks when I realized they were all, always and forever, full price. It angers me and I don't like supporting it, plus I can get cheaper buying used paperback.

I imagine many others like me. Partly because that's what ego does but mostly because it's truly cheaper to go paperback unless you're buying brand new releases.

Well, buying ebooks (and new paper books) directly benefits the author financially. Buying used books does not. if you go out of the way to buy used books in order to save money, you might as well just pirate ebooks instead. Ethically it seems the same to me.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

35 minutes ago, One-Winged Balrog said:

Well, buying ebooks (and new paper books) directly benefits the author financially. Buying used books does not. if you go out of the way to buy used books in order to save money, you might as well just pirate ebooks instead. Ethically it seems the same to me.

It isn’t.  A used book is one copy purchased and sold to another.  A pirated ebook is a new copy sold or offered to another.  The right to control creation of new copies is the entire point of “copyright”.

That said if we want to argue about copyright… again… shouldn’t it be in another thread?

Edited September 2, 2022 by Ser Scot A Ellison

[Ser Not Appearing]

38 minutes ago, One-Winged Balrog said:

Well, buying ebooks (and new paper books) directly benefits the author financially. Buying used books does not. if you go out of the way to buy used books in order to save money, you might as well just pirate ebooks instead. Ethically it seems the same to me.

While benefiting an author is a positive thing, you seem confused on the ethics of legal and illegal activity.

Regardless, I see no need to argue as I don't need validation for my choices and seek not to challenge yours.

[Ormond]

6 hours ago, One-Winged Balrog said:

Well, that's what I meant - isn't it weird that ebooks haven't won over yet? People sure are old-fashioned when it comes to reading.

Perhaps it's not a concern for most people's fiction reading, but psychological research shows that people understand and remember better works read in paper than on a screen. 

P.S. Sorry didn't see this had been mentioned and a link given in the next post. I will just say that as an academic psychologist I can affirm the link's information.

Edited September 2, 2022 by Ormond