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US Politics: all the progressive's fault


KalVsWade
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Yeah, @Maithanet, I think that's the most rational thing Russia could do. Go in, wipe out ukraine military, decapitate leadership and then just leave. A chaotic Ukraine serves basically all the purposes for Russia. 

What I don't know is how rational putin would be here. Does putin desire empire so much that he would want to try and hold Ukraine? I don't know. But I think it's a real possibility. 

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3 minutes ago, Kalibuster said:

A chaotic Ukraine serves basically all the purposes for Russia.

Which is really unfortunate for the world, particularly the people of Ukraine. 

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What I don't know is how rational putin would be here. Does putin desire empire so much that he would want to try and hold Ukraine? I don't know. But I think it's a real possibility. 

I'm gonna move this to the Ukraine thread, as we're at 22 here anyway, and this isn't really US politics. 

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11 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

Maybe, but I think that a staunchly anti-Russia strongman is probably more likely. 

Russia is in the position where they don't want a stable, prosperous Ukraine, because that would be a country that might meet the conditions to join NATO, and it makes Russia look bad in comparison.  So Russia has an incentive to make sure that Ukraine suffers as a result of this crisis.  They could realistically invade, crush Ukrainian infrastructure and then just...leave.  Yes, that would have casualties in the short term, but Putin doesn't much care about that so long as Russia doesn't get bogged down. 

For Russia, that would leave Ukraine impoverished, with a likely steady stream of people westward trying to emigrate to Romania, Poland etc.  Ukraine would have no hope of joining NATO or the EU for decades, because they'd have so little to offer. 

This plan definitely shows a lack of patience and has real downsides.  The US and EU would respond with sanctions, and those would hurt.  Russia would have to hug closer to China, which will grow increasingly uncomfortable as China is clearly the senior partner in that arrangement.  Russia's reputation (such as it is) on the world stage would be diminished.  Ukrainian terrorist attacks in Russia would probably become a regular occurance.  But it is achievable and would fufill Putin's stated goal of ensuring Ukraine does not join NATO anytime soon. 

I see why Putin would invade for short term gain over Ukraine, but the ramifications of another escalated Cold War seem too great to risk for Russia.

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12 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

Which is really unfortunate for the world, particularly the people of Ukraine. 

I'm gonna move this to the Ukraine thread, as we're at 22 here anyway, and this isn't really US politics. 

Yea never meant for this to be about Ukraine...just surreal US bi-partisan politics..

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