Canadian Politics: more than a truck load of covidiots, eh?

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

4 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

Because she’s the kind of lazy poster she is, constantly dropping links because she loves the headlines but doesn’t quote because she doesn’t read or watch what she posts.

I’d be delighted if @LynnS actually substantively engaged on this issue.  Fundamentally “cancel culture” is people choosing to put their money where they want to put their money.  It is about boycotts.  Boycotts are groups of individuals choosing to act.  I cannot see any systematic way of controlling boycotts unless you are comfortable with the State directing individuals to purchase product X or support individual Y.  I’m certainly not comfortable with the State ever doing things like that.

[LynnS]

2 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

Because she’s the kind of lazy poster she is, constantly dropping links because she loves the headlines but doesn’t quote because she doesn’t read or watch what she posts.

No that's wrong.  If you at the full thread on the Arson hoax (which you promoted); you can see what happened and how this is a hoax.  But a rather frightening one.  You can see why Loly and Watson were so alarmed and making statements about the truckers that seemed over the top and didn't make any sense.  Because these two nutjobs who actually live in the building are still at large but presumeably have cut and run; they are still a potential threat. 

This also explains why the Ottawa Police came in and removed gas supply from the staging area at the protest.   It also explains why the truckers have been so vigilant about people coming into that area.

As far as the complaint about my "trolling";  Posting a live feed link so people can see for themselves what is going on is not trolling.  If you don't want to witness, then don't.  And yes I did make fun of the trolling thing by posting 2 rather funny posts.  You should lighten up now and then.

The last one with Hauser was produced 2 years ago when we were are still feeling the shock of the pandemic.  Having to mask when there were none available.  When there was no vaccine.  When we were seeing the horrible news coming out of LTC homes.  I was reminded of what happened and how far we have come.

As to how this will be resolved; I think it's entirely possible that Biden will solve this problem by dropping covid passport requirements for US truckers and Trudeau will have to follow suit.

As to not wanting to talk to people here;  it's clear this is mostly partisan politics and you don't like someone contradicting the narrative you promote.    

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

4 minutes ago, LynnS said:

As to not wanting to talk to people here;  it's clear this is mostly partisan politics and you don't like someone contradicting the narrative you promote.    

That’s because you are doing the discussion board equivalent of screaming you opinions without any effort at actual engaging in discussion.  You have you hackles up with almost every post you make.  You are not opening the door for actual discussion.

Do you see no validity at all in criticism of the organizers of this movement?  Of the damage this movement is doing to the Canadian economy?  

Stop shouting and… discuss.

[SerHaHa]

Quote

Do you see no validity at all in criticism of the organizers of this movement?  Of the damage this movement is doing to the Canadian economy?  

To play devil's advocate, the amount of "damage" these trucktards are doing to the economy is infinitesimally small compared to what the lockdowns and other similar policies have done, and are doing.

Also, cancel culture isn't "just" about voting with the wallet - many, many people who have fallen victim to  "cancellation" have been attacked by organized campaigns, tens of thousands of phone calls to their employers, sponsors, etc etc.  That's not some touchy feely passive thing, which seems to be how you're framing cancel culture Scott, it's a direct attack against a person's freedom of speech - even if that speech is ridiculous - by assaulting their ability to have an income, and thus survive.

[Ghjhero]

38 minutes ago, SerHaHa said:

To play devil's advocate, the amount of "damage" these trucktards are doing to the economy is infinitesimally small compared to what the lockdowns and other similar policies have done, and are doing.

Also, cancel culture isn't "just" about voting with the wallet - many, many people who have fallen victim to  "cancellation" have been attacked by organized campaigns, tens of thousands of phone calls to their employers, sponsors, etc etc.  That's not some touchy feely passive thing, which seems to be how you're framing cancel culture Scott, it's a direct attack against a person's freedom of speech - even if that speech is ridiculous - by assaulting their ability to have an income, and thus survive.

Spot on. Neil Young isn’t merely leaving Spotify because he doesn’t want to be on the same platform as Joe Rogan, he demanded Spotify remove Rogan or he would leave. That’s not a boycott, that’s an attempt to permanently ostracize and remove someone from society. 

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

2 minutes ago, Ghjhero said:

Spot on. Neil Young isn’t merely leaving Spotify because he doesn’t want to be on the same platform as Joe Rogan, he demanded Spotify remove Rogan or he would leave. That’s not a boycott, that’s an attempt to permanently ostracize and remove someone from society. 

Giving the rationale for choosing to leave spotify is problematic?

[Zorral]

With apologies, Frankie Laine!  And to Clint Eastwood!

Rollin' rollin' rollin'
Rollin' rollin' rollin'
Roin' rollin' rollin'
Rollin' rollin' rollin'
Keep rollin' rollin' rollin'

Trollin, trollin' trollin'
Keep trollin' trollin, trollin'
Though the streams are swollen
Keep them trollers rollin'
Keep them trollers rollin'
Keep them trollers rollin'

Don't try to understand them
Just rope, throw and brand 'em
Soon they'll be kneeling high and wide
Movin' movin' movin'
Movin' movin' movin'
Movin' movin' movin'
Keep movin' movin' movin'
Though they're disapprovin'
Keep them trollers trollin'
Keep them trollers trollin' 
Keep them trollers trollin'

Soon I'll need Russia at my side!

Move 'em out head 'em up get 'em up
Move 'em out head 'em up get 'em up

Trollin, trollin' trolling'
Trollin, trollin' trolling
Trollin, trollin' trolling

[Week]

23 minutes ago, Ghjhero said:

Spot on. Neil Young isn’t merely leaving Spotify because he doesn’t want to be on the same platform as Joe Rogan, he demanded Spotify remove Rogan or he would leave. That’s not a boycott, that’s an attempt to permanently ostracize and remove someone from society. 

Suppose Spotify chose to end it's contract with Joe Rogan -- you believe this would represent permanent ostracization and removal of him from society? Would he be jailed? How does that prevent him from taking a job somewhere else? (FYI, Freeze peach platform Rumble publicly offered him $100 million which he turned down)

[A Horse Named Stranger]

1 hour ago, Zorral said:

With apologies, Frankie Laine!  And to Clint Eastwood!

Rollin' rollin' rollin'
Rollin' rollin' rollin'
Roin' rollin' rollin'
Rollin' rollin' rollin'
Keep rollin' rollin' rollin'

Trollin, trollin' trollin'
Keep trollin' trollin, trollin'
Though the streams are swollen
Keep them trollers rollin'
Keep them trollers rollin'
Keep them trollers rollin'

Don't try to understand them
Just rope, throw and brand 'em
Soon they'll be kneeling high and wide
Movin' movin' movin'
Movin' movin' movin'
Movin' movin' movin'
Keep movin' movin' movin'
Though they're disapprovin'
Keep them trollers trollin'
Keep them trollers trollin' 
Keep them trollers trollin'

Soon I'll need Russia at my side!

Move 'em out head 'em up get 'em up
Move 'em out head 'em up get 'em up

Trollin, trollin' trolling'
Trollin, trollin' trolling
Trollin, trollin' trolling

Blues Brothers is a master piece I haven't watched in a while.

[Lord of Oop North]

5 hours ago, SerHaHa said:

To play devil's advocate, the amount of "damage" these trucktards are doing to the economy is infinitesimally small compared to what the lockdowns and other similar policies have done, and are doing.

To play the opposite devil's advocate, it could be argued that the original shutdowns served a purpose (protect the health care system), whereas this blockade of the border crossing does not. You speak about lockdowns, but 99% of the industries affected by a border blockade are not locked down in anyway at all. Unless your industry is restaurant, tourism, or events, then everyone else has been able to operate as normal for a long time now.

As for economic damage, that may change quickly. All the major auto makers are cutting shifts and ramping down production.

 https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/windsor-protests-hit-ford-motors-supply-chain-forcing-it-to-idle-engine-plant

Quote

As the blockade throttling traffic at the Ambassador Bridge enters its fourth day, Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer on Thursday urged Canadian authorities at all levels to take action and get the bridge back open to traffic.

“My message is simple: reopen traffic on the bridge,” she said. “In Michigan, our economy continues to grow because of our hardworking people and innovative small businesses. Now, that momentum is at risk. Commercial traffic is at a standstill at the Ambassador Bridge (at Windsor) and heavily backed up at the Blue Water Bridge (in Sarnia).

Quote

Whitmer’s pressure comes after General Motors Co  cut two shifts in Lansing, where the automaker builds the mid-sized Chevrolet Traverse and Buick Enclave.

In all, at least six auto plants near the U.S.-Canada border have slashed output as the impact from a protest blocking truck traffic into Detroit begins rippling through both nations’ economies, Bloomberg News reports.

Toyota Motor Corp. said it will idle three plants in Ontario due to parts shortages caused by the bridge blockade. Factories in Woodstock and Cambridge, Ontario, make key models like the Lexus RX and RAV4 SUV, and will be down through Saturday.

Quote

Ford said it shut its Windsor engine plant on Wednesday, but reopened the following day at reduced capacity. Its SUV assembly plant in Oakville is also operating at reduced capacity, the company said.

Both countries are learning that the economic damage can pile up fast: Every day, about C$450 million ($355 million) in goods cross the Ambassador Bridge connecting Detroit and Windsor.

 

[Varysblackfyre321]

5 hours ago, Ghjhero said:

That’s not a boycott,

Yes it is. The purpose of any boycott is to get an entity to act or stop acting in a certain way.

Boycotts aren’t good or bad instrinictely.

There’s been calls to boycott a product towards s company involved was friendly with gay people and the boycotters involved wanted that to stop. 
 

6 hours ago, SerHaHa said:

it's a direct attack against a person's freedom of speech

What you just described is also people exercising their freedom of freedom in order to elicit a social punishment for those they dislike. And I think trying to legally restrict people from doing such would be a curtailing of their freedom of speech and society as whole.

If everyone is supposed to be quiet because their words may get people  to disassociate with someone—no matter if the grievance is something that involves that someone doing something they did—then that practically gives license for powerful entities to be better able to destroy anyone who speaks ill of them due to politics.

Boycotts can be fine. Or bad. Depends on the overall goal is.

People with  particularly degenerate beliefs should be ostracized until they can reform:

I imagine no one here  would be privy to say a person  who advocates for child-porn to be legal is entitled employment to anywhere despite their political rhetoric. 
 

8 hours ago, LynnS said:

Posting a live feed link so people can see for themselves what is going on is not trolling. 

So to be clear will you ever acknowledge Pat king is racist even though he has a Jewish friend?

[A Horse Named Stranger]

5 hours ago, Ghjhero said:

Spot on. Neil Young isn’t merely leaving Spotify because he doesn’t want to be on the same platform as Joe Rogan, he demanded Spotify remove Rogan or he would leave. That’s not a boycott, that’s an attempt to permanently ostracize and remove someone from society. 

It is a boycott. I refuse to engage into a financial action with you unless you change the behaviour I dislike.

I am not buying products from South Africa or companies doing business with South Africa unless they end Apartheit.

I refuse to do business with company xy as long as they buy ads and thus help finance Laura Ingraham.

I refuse to put my music on spotify as long they push the misinformation hour with Rogan. 

Full credit Neil, and the other members of Stills, Nash, Crosby and Young, who apparently agreed with him. 

I mean, feel free to criticize artist xyz for pulling out of spotify over Rogan, while they have no issue performing for autocrats in Baku or the Middle-East. But Young was basically taking a very principle stance here, I expected no less of him, and I am glad he did it.

[DMC]

5 hours ago, Ghjhero said:

Spot on. Neil Young isn’t merely leaving Spotify because he doesn’t want to be on the same platform as Joe Rogan, he demanded Spotify remove Rogan or he would leave. That’s not a boycott, that’s an attempt to permanently ostracize and remove someone from society. 

While I thought @SerHaHa made some good points on what distinguishes "cancel culture," Joe Rogan being "victimized" is just about the worst possible example you could use.  Him being "targeted" by "cancel culture" will only further endear him - and thus enable him to make even more money off of - his consumer base.  Although, since it involves Neil Young, I suppose points for keeping it Canadian relevant.

[Varysblackfyre321]

9 hours ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

We have an obligation to buy from people we don’t like?  We have an obligation to listen to or watch people we don’t like?  Artists have an obligation to offer their work on platforms that support others they don’t care for?

Really?

If they’re conservative yes. A lot of the grievance with cancel culture comes from a disgust towards progressive trying to enforce a social mores on society on society.

not to say no one who’s ever been “canceled” by progressives is a bad person whose had what coming to them. Ex. Lindsey Ellis.

[TrueMetis]

They're freaking deputizing themselves. Hey cops, I know your fash adjacent and many are sympathetic to this shit. But now they're trying to claim lawful use of force, so maybe now that they're encroaching on your turf you'll do something?

(Note this is why the cops being sympathetic to these kind of folks is so goddamn stupid, these people don't actually like cops they just find them useful as long as the do what they want)

https://twitter.com/theserfstv/status/1491845130256408600

[Lord of Oop North]

40 minutes ago, TrueMetis said:

https://twitter.com/theserfstv/status/1491845130256408600

 

The selfie ending is just the chef's kiss. I imagine that is what sailors looked like when being press ganged.

InfoWars sticker on the megaphone, is legit and certainly establishes his reasonable judgement to appoint "Peace officers".

Also, does he really need a megaphone inside a tent? 

 

 

 

[Lord of Oop North]

And for those who think CBC is just propaganda arm of the Government (because they don't watch it), the panel of CBC At Issue today was quite scathing of Trudeau and the PMO. A good discussion. 

Really there is a lot of blame to go around. This is a failure on all parts of our government.

The PMO and the Liberal caucus response has been terrible. I truly understand why, since the protesters demanded the Government resign, but now they've fucked themselves.

The Conservative Party for egging on the blockades in order to capitalize on it politically, with that shameless Smug Wipe Poilivere being the worst offender here.

Ford government is seemingly content to let Ontario suffer because it makes Trudeau look bad. 

The City of Ottawa for a total lack of response.

In true Canadian fashion, all of these groups have continually passed the buck, and fucked up in major ways in their response, and their combined fuckups have made this into a huge shitshow.

 

 

 

 

 

[TrueMetis]

1 hour ago, Lord of Oop North said:

And for those who think CBC is just propaganda arm of the Government (because they don't watch it), the panel of CBC At Issue today was quite scathing of Trudeau and the PMO. A good discussion. 

Really there is a lot of blame to go around. This is a failure on all parts of our government.

The PMO and the Liberal caucus response has been terrible. I truly understand why, since the protesters demanded the Government resign, but now they've fucked themselves.

The Conservative Party for egging on the blockades in order to capitalize on it politically, with that shameless Smug Wipe Poilivere being the worst offender here.

Ford government is seemingly content to let Ontario suffer because it makes Trudeau look bad. 

The City of Ottawa for a total lack of response.

In true Canadian fashion, all of these groups have continually passed the buck, and fucked up in major ways in their response, and their combined fuckups have made this into a huge shitshow.

Not to be a Liberal apologist but there seems to be relatively little the Liberals could do. Pretty much everything happening has been in provincial or municipal jurisdiction (IE the blocked bridge has them blocking the road up to it, rather than the bridge itself which CBSA controls) so aside from trying to get the provinces to engage with them (which they've rather publically refused) there's not much to be done unless the occupiers step into federal territory. (Or the provinces request federal aid)

[Lord of Oop North]

7 hours ago, TrueMetis said:

Not to be a Liberal apologist but there seems to be relatively little the Liberals could do. Pretty much everything happening has been in provincial or municipal jurisdiction (IE the blocked bridge has them blocking the road up to it, rather than the bridge itself which CBSA controls) so aside from trying to get the provinces to engage with them (which they've rather publically refused) there's not much to be done unless the occupiers step into federal territory. (Or the provinces request federal aid)

Yes, that's true. The one with the real power to end the blockades is Ford. Ford is happy to let this continue as long as it costs Trudeau more than it does him, and is clearly using this to build up political ammunition ahead of this year's election.

Obviously Trudeau has limited control. But don't forget that a great deal of the PMO's power in the minds of the country is symbolic in nature. People believe he has more power than he actually does. That's why the protest leaders demanded that Trudeau order the Provinces to rescind all health restrictions, when he has no authority to do that whatsoever.

That being said, this is now a war of hearts and minds, and he is starting to lose. Question Period this week was a disaster for him.

There was a suggestion last week that a Federal mediator be appointed to meet with the protesters. That might be a good idea. Maybe it is not 'right', but it is an easy PR win. The mediator could listen to them, under no obligation, provided they meet certain conditions:

1. The Convoy elect new leaders and they denounce the MOU that was issued, demanding the resignation of the government, which was issued by those original leaders.

2. All border and road blockades cease immediately.

3. All harassment (I.e. the honking) of citizens cease immediately.

This would immediately put the ball in their court. It shows that the government is always willing to listen to citizens, but it also puts the 3 issues on the table that are pissing off a majority of the population. It would put public pressure on the convoy organizers to act, and on the Conservative Party that is supporting them.

[Fragile Bird]

Yesterday afternoon an Ontario court gave the province an injunction stopping the payment of any funds out of the GoFundMe $10M.

Another American company already set up a fund in the US and has announced Canadian courts can’t touch them. It already has $8M in it. And they say they’ll pay in Bitcoin, so fuck you Canada.