Canadian Politics: more than a truck load of covidiots, eh?

[HoodedCrow]

You youngins:) In the early days of the internet, DH was an acronym for Dear Husband. But also designated hitter. So, I was just pointing out that the people that he has been turning up are not blood relatives…that I know of. And there are some very cool ones. There is a President, one person who died in the American Civil War and er… some people from the Salem witch days. The weirdest one died crossing the Rhine in full armor. The best one was an Australian who was a real life Indiana Jones. The ice shelf named after him has broken away:( We are interconnected, even related. 

I want the rule of law to hold, and my fiends and family not to be threatened. The protesters say that they were going to move on and they didn’t. Now the Gofundme is being sued for the millions in expenses and that is so much better than my harebrained ideas. 
 

 

 

 

[TrueMetis]

14 minutes ago, Frey family reunion said:

This I disagree with strongly.  People may try to manipulate the grievances that people have to their own ends, but that doesn't change the fundamental nature of the grievance itself.  

How do you know what the grievance is without looking at those who organized the protest. You know, the organizers, those that decide what they say the grievance is?

Put another way, what the fuck do you think their grievance is and how do you know that?

[Zorral]

"Canada Protests Live Updates: Truck Blockade at U.S.-Canada Border Threatens Busiest Link Between the Countries"

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/02/08/world/canada-trucker-protest

The article focuses on the automotive industry, but we've been seeing effects in the local Trader Joe's food chain here, where we share a border with Canada.  For example, the best sliced  bread for toasting is a sour dough loaf, and we've not had it on the shelves for a while.  Well, I'm blaming it on this particular mess, but maybe there are other reasons, such as weather-interrupted highway routes, etc.
 

[LynnS]

 

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

20 minutes ago, LynnS said:

 

Too bad for you his party won the recent election… isn’t it?

[Lord of Oop North]

26 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Too bad for you his party won the recent election… isn’t it?

All the Provinces are/were already on a path to remove restrictions, most making statements to that effect 3 weeks ago, about "living with the virus", etc.

These people will take credit for that, but it was going to happen anyway.

I don't know what will happen with the Federal vaccine requirement. The vaccine requirement for truckers is a bit moot, because the USA has the same requirement, so truckers can't cross into the USA anyway.

On the Provincial side, once vaccine passport programs are dismantled, very few provinces have vaccination requirements for workers. Most of those requirements were implemented on municipal/private/institutional levels, independent of the provincial governments.

And so far, those "vaccine mandates" are standing legal challenge:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/vaccine-mandates-1.6342193

Quote

Legal challenges of employer vaccine mandates and health measures are being tossed out as arbitrators in Canada largely side with the need to maintain safe workplaces during a pandemic, legal experts say.

Most of the cases with rulings so far involve employee grievances in unionized workplaces, which have an expedited decision-making process compared with the courts, they say.

A scan of decisions issued in recent weeks shows arbitrators are largely erring on the side of caution and minimizing health risks to employees and the public, experts say.

It has always been legal to have vaccine requirements for employees in Canada.

For example, it has been a requirement of my wife's employer forever (over 30 years, for sure) to have up to date immunization records.

[LynnS]

 

[Fragile Bird]

29 minutes ago, LynnS said:

 

Man, why do you post this shit?

[DMC]

5 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

Man, why do you post this shit?

I just like how I played it for 15 seconds and dude wasn't even sure what the date was.

[Varysblackfyre321]

4 hours ago, Frey family reunion said:

I'll leave the true ulterior motives up to those interested in these type of conspiracies.  

But, the organizers have quite bluntly stated the protest isn’t just about getting rid of any vaccine mandates.

4 hours ago, Frey family reunion said:

My issue is the intellectual hypocrisy that many have when engaging in dialogue and debate.  Instead of acively engaging in the debate concerning the protests, the dialogue turns into ad hominem attacks. 

Should we not engage with the statement of those who organized the protest, and been held  up as its spokesmen?

4 hours ago, Frey family reunion said:

So we spend all of our energy in villifying the arguer as opposed to debating the argument.  

But the argument is truly awful as well and people have discussed why.

Its just noted alongside that the arguments give evidence that the arguers are degenerates.

Its okay to evaluate people based on what they do or say or believe.

4 hours ago, Frey family reunion said:

So whatever the underlying motive of those that are organizing the protests, I have no idea

A dismantling of democracy in Canada at least.

4 hours ago, Frey family reunion said:

So whatever the underlying motive of those that are organizing the protests, I have no idea.  I'm going to go under the assumption that the majority of people are actually protesting the idea of vaccine mandates for those crossing the Canadian border and are not actually seeking to turn Canada into a white only ethno state.

For many of them it’s safe to assume based on the rhetoric of the organizers getting so backlash.

We can’t just evaluate a protest on its least unreasonable/abhorrent sounding demands.

4 hours ago, Frey family reunion said:

I personally find that debate more interesting than an attempt to shut down the debate by painting the person who's viewpoint I disagree with as racist, or as a sympathizer with racists.  

Why not have a full debate where all stated positions are evaluated; including the repugnant ones by the organizers who state the aim of their protest is to lead to an end of liberal democracy in Canada and to fight back against things like “Anglo-Saxon” replacement?

4 hours ago, Frey family reunion said:

As for the issue with the stated goals of the protest

Please acknowledge other stated goals other than a drop of the vaccine mandates;

If you agree, or disagree with them, you should say so.

4 hours ago, Frey family reunion said:

However, I don't attach any immorality to people who disagree with my assessment.  I think the issue of personal individual freedom balanced against our responsibility to our society is a debate worth having.  I dont' immediately cast aspirations on those who disagree with where I stand.

I don’t really see anything wrong instrivtly with society’s having standards and showing a degree of hostility towards who deliberately fail to meet them.
 

 

4 hours ago, Frey family reunion said:

Just like I haven't spent any time trying to ascertain whether the people who organized this trucker protests are secretly Klan members. 

Not klan members just neo-Nazis, white-nationalist, and other far-right nut jobs.

3 hours ago, Frey family reunion said:

People may try to manipulate the grievances that people have to their own ends, but that doesn't change the fundamental nature of the grievance itself.  

Yeah again one of the organizers’ fundamental grievances is democracy itself.

 

[Zorral]

7 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

Man, why do you post this shit?

It's a trolling.

[Fragile Bird]

11 minutes ago, DMC said:

I just like how I played it for 15 seconds and dude wasn't even sure what the date was.

It is honestly difficult to imagine it isn’t a comedy skit, a very long Bob and Doug Mackenzie one.

[Varysblackfyre321]

4 hours ago, Frey family reunion said:

Both protests grow far beyond the limitations of those that originally organized it and encompassed a large number of people who have a specific grievance.  I think it's the grievance that should be debated.

I think it’s imperative for people to not take the least controversial stated grievance for a particular protest demonstration as the end all be all of the discussion and think all other grievances can be safely ignored. 

 

[A Horse Named Stranger]

MacKenzie, Canadian Mounty

See DMC, thanks to Birdy our Canadian tv show (not starring Roddy Piper) is taking shape here.

[LynnS]

"We're going to arrest anybody who brings gas..."

 

[LynnS]

 

Faces of Protest - by Heather Heying - Natural Selections (substack.com)

How do you know when you are doing what is right?

I was asked this by a man who was in Ottawa during the past week. This man has been observing, talking to people, documenting what he sees, and he is doing some soul-searching. He has seen real people, thousands of them, showing up to protect their freedoms and the freedoms of their fellow citizens. He has seen them being good to one another, friend and stranger alike.

But how to reconcile what he has seen with what we are told that others are seeing in the same place, at the same time? The Freedom Convoy, as presented by most of the media, is characterized by violence and racism, selfishness and hatred. Can both visions of reality be true?

In considering an answer, I thought first of epistemology: How is it that we make claims of truth? On what basis do we know what we think that we know?

There is much to say on the topic, but the shortest answer I can muster is:

1. Make observations of the world.

2. Posit all of the possible explanations for those observations (hypotheses) that you can.

3. Seek falsifying evidence for your hypotheses: try hard to prove your hypotheses wrong.

4. Repeat.

[LynnS]

During the pandemic lockdowns, the email jobs caste loved to talk about essential workers, and luxuriated in public displays of gratitude for them. But this caste of genteel urbanites never realised that this choice of nomenclature was in fact much more meaningful — and ominous – than they understood. Some people, it seems, simply are critical to the functioning of the economy, pandemic or no pandemic. Once those people — and truck drivers are perhaps the most critical of them all — start to demand to be listened to, they have ways to make those demands felt.

How the Left betrayed the Truckers - UnHerd

[LynnS]

8 hours ago, Fragile Bird said:

Man, why do you post this shit?

Because I've lived and worked in Ottawa and the Ottawa region all my life and because the shit you talk isn't what is going on.  I post it so people can see what is going on for themselves if they don't have the attention span of a flea.  I post it so people don't have to rely on your shit talk.

[A wilding]

8 hours ago, Fragile Bird said:

Man, why do you post this shit?

To some extent it may just be about getting lots of links to far right nonsense on a popular website like this one. It may improve their rankings, and some people may follow them and fall down the rabbit hole.

[LynnS]

8 hours ago, DMC said:

I just like how I played it for 15 seconds and dude wasn't even sure what the date was.

It's because he lives in Montreal, so he doesn't know Ottawa streets that well.