Relations between the Stark kids, following the reunion

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight9]

What do you think that the reunions and interactions between the surviving children of Ned Stark will be, once Winterfell is taken and the North are taken back from the Boltons and that the pack reassemble itself with the kids going back home one after one during The Winds of Winter and possibly A Dream of Spring ?

What do you think should be the relations between Jon, Sansa, Arya, Bran and Rickon (if he lives) once they are reunited with each other ?

Who will be closer with who ? What family dynamics and teamwork to defend and rule the North will there ? What kind of tensions and reconcilations may happen ?

[EggBlue]

I think Sansa and Arya will be exceptionally closer than before...much closer. these two sisters used to envy each other much more than dislike each other. from Arya's very first chapter , we see how she is annoyed by the fact that Sansa gets everything .. from the better looks to the better prince to walk with  to everybody approving her behavior . and later in Sansa's chapter where she goes to Cersei , she is particularly excited to be rebellious to get what she wants (which was sadly Joffrey ) and to be like Arya. these two sisters have come a long way , though.. Arya's been living with girls like Sansa and has been playing Sansa as Mercy ;whilst , Sansa's been acting more freely due to a lower status , much like Arya would have ran in the yard without giving a second thought to her hair. I'm looking forward to their reunion ... I think they'll have a better understanding of each other and get along far better..

[Corvo the Crow]

1 hour ago, Terrorthatflapsinthenight9 said:

What do you think that the reunions and interactions between the surviving children of Ned Stark will be, once Winterfell is taken and the North are taken back from the Boltons and that the pack reassemble itself with the kids going back home one after one during The Winds of Winter and possibly A Dream of Spring ?

What do you think should be the relations between Jon, Sansa, Arya, Bran and Rickon (if he lives) once they are reunited with each other ?

Who will be closer with who ? What family dynamics and teamwork to defend and rule the North will there ? What kind of tensions and reconcilations may happen ?

If he lives? Why if he lives for Rickon and not anybody else? Most people consider Jon dead due to his cliffhanger, though sincewe've seen many characters survive worse (an axe to the head with Tyrion for example), I'll skip this one but Arya is probably in a way more dangerouse line of plot and Bran is beyond the wall and has already faced with the walker threat so they are the more appropriate candidates for "if lives".

Jon and Sansa will be more close, at least Sansa will care more for Jon, she has started to do so as early as the first book

Quote

"There was a black brother," Sansa said, "begging men for the Wall, only he was kind of old and smelly." She hadn't liked that at all. She had always imagined the Night's Watch to be men like Uncle Benjen. In the songs, they were called the black knights of the Wall. But this man had been crookbacked and hideous, and he looked as though he might have lice. If this was what the Night's Watch was truly like, she felt sorry for her bastard half brother, Jon. "Father asked if there were any knights in the hall who would do honor to their houses by taking the black, but no one came forward, so he gave this Yoren his pick of the king's dungeons and sent him on his way. And later these two brothers came before him, freeriders from the Dornish Marches, and pledged their swords to the service of the king. Father accepted their oaths …"

But I think it will probably go as far as JonSa, since we have some things that suggest this as well and Sansa has taken Arya's place in some of the things in the original draft: Sansa was supposed to marry Joffrey and have children and Arya to escape KL(along with Cat) and go to Jon and Benjen with Tyrion chasing after her, Jon, Arya and Tyrion had supposed to form a love triangle but instead, we have Sansa marrying Tyrion and escaping KL in the general direction of the Wall and may yet escape to the Wall itself since she has learned that Jon is LC.

Rickon is still a wee babe , 5 years old, so don't really know what should be expected with him. Arya and Bran I don't see coming back any time soon.

 

 

[Brother Seamus]

I assume there will be some conflict but it will resolve and not be a big part of the plot.

probably mostly focused on Sansa. a bit of Arya-Sansa conflict, with Jon taking Arya's side, and a bit of Sansa versus Rickon, due to her jealousy over his (brief) role as lord of winterfell.

Edited February 10, 2022 by Brother Seamus
love

[Brother Seamus]

probably mostly focused on Sansa. a bit of Arya-Sansa conflict, with Jon taking Arya's side, and bit of Sansa versus Rickon, due to her jealousy over his (brief) role as lord of winterfell.

[Corvo the Crow]

11 minutes ago, Brother Seamus said:

I assume there will be some conflict but it will resolve and not be a big part of the plot.

probably mostly focused on Sansa. a bit of Arya-Sansa conflict, with Jon taking Arya's side, and a bit of Sansa versus Rickon, due to her jealousy over his (brief) role as lord of winterfell.

Why would Sansa be jealous of Rickon's role as lord of Winterfell? Her entire life, she grew up with the idea/knowledge that she'd be married off to some great lord, and most likely a southron one since it was Septa Mordane training her. She never stood to rule WF, never thought of doing so and never wanted to do such a thing. Why would she, after an entire lifetime of not wanting WF, be jealous of Rickon? 

 

I really have strong doubts about whether if some of the stuff getting posted here comes from the books since they sure don't look as if they do.

[EggBlue]

I think all the talk of Stark conflict is a little overrated. the most distant siblings were Arya and Sansa , both of whom -as I've explained in an earlier post- are basically learning to understand each other better. the first ones to reach WF are Jon , Rickon and Sansa . these three will each have supporters for their claims but the truth is Rickon's is the strongest although he is the least fit to rule due to his age. which would leave Sansa and Jon . I think both of them can easily compromise since one has experience to rule and the other is learning to be political savvy . there is a chance that Jon's becoming darker (something that GRRM has said before) comes in the way of their understanding, though .. but at the end , the wolves' stories revolve around survival of the pack rather than lone wolves. 

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight9]

7 hours ago, EggBlue said:

I think all the talk of Stark conflict is a little overrated. the most distant siblings were Arya and Sansa , both of whom -as I've explained in an earlier post- are basically learning to understand each other better. the first ones to reach WF are Jon , Rickon and Sansa . these three will each have supporters for their claims but the truth is Rickon's is the strongest although he is the least fit to rule due to his age. which would leave Sansa and Jon . I think both of them can easily compromise since one has experience to rule and the other is learning to be political savvy . there is a chance that Jon's becoming darker (something that GRRM has said before) comes in the way of their understanding, though .. but at the end , the wolves' stories revolve around survival of the pack rather than lone wolves. 

Well legally Rickon's claim will always beat Jon and Sansa's ones, meaning that no talk or will or law will stop Rickon from becoming the new official lord of Winterfell, at least until Bran comes back, and that all Jon and Sansa can hope is a position of regentship or to be Rickon's arms in military and political matters. 

[Corvo the Crow]

10 hours ago, EggBlue said:

I think all the talk of Stark conflict is a little overrated. the most distant siblings were Arya and Sansa , both of whom -as I've explained in an earlier post- are basically learning to understand each other better. the first ones to reach WF are Jon , Rickon and Sansa . these three will each have supporters for their claims but the truth is Rickon's is the strongest although he is the least fit to rule due to his age. which would leave Sansa and Jon . I think both of them can easily compromise since one has experience to rule and the other is learning to be political savvy . there is a chance that Jon's becoming darker (something that GRRM has said before) comes in the way of their understanding, though .. but at the end , the wolves' stories revolve around survival of the pack rather than lone wolves. 

Overrated would be a wrong choice of words for something that doesn't and won't exist. All these people claiming there will be a Stark conflict are not thinking along the lines of the books and if GRRM decides to set a conflict between the Starks then it will be another thing done poorly for just doing it for the sake of doing. Jon has, time and again brought forward Sansa's claim to WF when Stannis offered him the lordship of the WF and North. There's no way for Jon to be in conflict with Sansa for the rule of WF, it's very out of character and any such thing would be fanfic. If you write such a fanfic and somehow manage to get millions of dollars of support to bring such fanfic to life under the guise of, say, a movie, it would still be fanfic of sorts.

Sansa, for her entire life, grew up with the knowledge and expectation to be married to some powerful lord. Not only was she 4th in line but she was also a girl, so she had no expectations at all to be ruler of WF, had no such want or hope or anything else and even if she were to somehow become the lady of Winterfell, the usual thing that's done in such a circumstance seems to be marrying her to a male relative of the same house. Sheila Whent's husband being also a Whent, for example. There will be no Jon-Sansa conflict over Winterfell and There would be no Sansa-Rİckon conflict either. These stuff are too out of character. The only conflict we may get at all between these three would be Jon and Sansa not in agreement of the decisions during regency.

Quote

 

"Lord Karstark's heir was at Harrenhal as well," Ser Brynden reminded him. "The eldest son, the one the Lannisters took captive on the Green Fork."

"Harrion. His name is Harrion." Robb laughed bitterly. "A king had best know the names of his enemies, don't you think?"

The Blackfish looked at him shrewdly. "You know that for a certainty? That this will make young Karstark your enemy?"

"What else would he be? I am about to kill his father, he's not like to thank me."

"He might. There are sons who hate their fathers, and in a stroke you will make him Lord of Karhold."

Robb shook his head. "Even if Harrion were that sort, he could never openly forgive his father's killer. His own men would turn on him. These are northmen, Uncle. The north remembers."

 

These are Northmen, even if they would feel gratitude for the one ahead of them getting killed, they can't show it. Even if Jon or Sansa were the sort to plot against the one ahead of them in line, they couldn't openly act against Sansa and Rickon and again, this can not be stressed enough since there are a lot of people who don't do their thinking along the line of books, they are not.

Edited February 11, 2022 by Corvo the Crow

[Corvo the Crow]

9 hours ago, EggBlue said:

I think all the talk of Stark conflict is a little overrated. the most distant siblings were Arya and Sansa , both of whom -as I've explained in an earlier post- are basically learning to understand each other better. the first ones to reach WF are Jon , Rickon and Sansa . these three will each have supporters for their claims but the truth is Rickon's is the strongest although he is the least fit to rule due to his age. which would leave Sansa and Jon . I think both of them can easily compromise since one has experience to rule and the other is learning to be political savvy . there is a chance that Jon's becoming darker (something that GRRM has said before) comes in the way of their understanding, though .. but at the end , the wolves' stories revolve around survival of the pack rather than lone wolves. 

Overrated would be a wrong choice of words for something that doesn't and won't exist. All these people claiming there will be a Stark conflict are not thinking along the lines of the books and if GRRM decides to set a conflict between the Starks then it will be another thing done poorly for just doing it for the sake of doing. Jon has, time and again brought forward Sansa's claim to WF when Stannis offered him the lordship of the WF and North. There's no way for Jon to be in conflict with Sansa for the rule of WF, it's very out of character and any such thing would be fanfic. If you write such a fanfic and somehow manage to get millions of dollars of support to bring such fanfic to life under the guise of, say, a movie, it would still be fanfic of sorts.

Sansa, for her entire life, grew up with the knowledge and expectation to be married to some powerful lord. Not only was she 4th in line but she was also a girl, so she had no expectations at all to be ruler of WF, had no such want or hope or anything else and even if she were to somehow become the lady of Winterfell, the usual thing that's done in such a circumstance seems to be marrying her to a male relative of the same house. Sheila Whent's husband being also a Whent, for example. There will be no Jon-Sansa conflict over Winterfell and There would be no Sansa-Rİckon conflict either. These stuff are too out of character. The only conflict we may get at all between these three would be Jon and Sansa not in agreement of the decisions during regency.

Quote

 

"Lord Karstark's heir was at Harrenhal as well," Ser Brynden reminded him. "The eldest son, the one the Lannisters took captive on the Green Fork."

"Harrion. His name is Harrion." Robb laughed bitterly. "A king had best know the names of his enemies, don't you think?"

The Blackfish looked at him shrewdly. "You know that for a certainty? That this will make young Karstark your enemy?"

"What else would he be? I am about to kill his father, he's not like to thank me."

"He might. There are sons who hate their fathers, and in a stroke you will make him Lord of Karhold."

Robb shook his head. "Even if Harrion were that sort, he could never openly forgive his father's killer. His own men would turn on him. These are northmen, Uncle. The north remembers."

 

These are Northmen, even if they would feel gratitude for the one ahead of them getting killed, they can't show it. Even if Jon or Sansa were the sort to plot against the one ahead of them in line, they couldn't openly act against Sansa and Rickon and again, they are not.

[Harry the Hair]

I am of the opinion that all living Stark children will make it back to Winterfell by the end of the series. I always thought that Robb's will would've been the main obstacle to having Sansa inherit Winterfell, but since both of her younger brothers are alive anyways that point seems moot. However, depending on how the will was worded, it might put a chink on her future marriage prospects (assuming she'll find a way to get out of her marriage to Tyrion). I doubt there will be any power squabbles between the siblings, the relief of being reunited will probably mend most (if not all) old wounds.

Everyone seems to have marked Rickon for a dead man for some reason, I'm guessing it's because of the show? I think D&D had no idea what to do with his character and since he was an obstacle to their Sansa QitN fetish they just flushed him in the weirdest and most uneventful way possible. I believe Davos will succeed and we'll get to see Wyman's plan unfurl.

Quote

"Roose Bolton has Lord Eddard's daughter. To thwart him White Harbor must have Ned's son … and the direwolf. The wolf will prove the boy is who we say he is, should the Dreadfort attempt to deny him. That is my price, Lord Davos. Smuggle me back my liege lord, and I will take Stannis Baratheon as my king."

-ADWD Davos IV

I don't see Bran staying in that cave forever either, I think Meera's main purpose in the story is to get him back home safely after he's somewhat mastered whatever supernatural talents he has. 

As far as relationships go, Sansa would probably be a mother figure to Rickon, she has gotten quite good at parenting unruly children. I see her assuming the responsibilities of lady of Winterfell until such a time as one of her brothers is experienced enough to take over, at which point she'll feel comfortable enough to establish her own family/household with whomever she chooses. I agree with everyone else that the two sisters will definitely reconnect and gain a new appreciation for each other.

I got nothing against JonSa shippers, fly your flags proud and free my friends, but I always though that what Jon valued in women were characteristics one attributes to Arya and what he disliked were classic traits we associate with Cat and Sansa.

Quote

Val looked the part and rode as if she had been born on horseback. A warrior princess, he decided, not some willowy creature who sits up in a tower, brushing her hair and waiting for some knight to rescue her.

-ADWD, Jon XI

The amount of times he thinks about Arya vs the amount of times he thinks about Sansa suggests to me that a Jon-Arya romance is more likely to happen; and if there is a love triangle in the making my money is on Jon-Arya-Gendry. That's just my read though, I am not claiming that JonSa is impossible, we have at least 2 books to go so anything can happen.

 

[EggBlue]

in favor of JonSa:) 

1) I believe if Jon's about to enter a relationship with either of his cousin/sisters ,it should be the one he wasn't that close to as a brother. Jon clearly sees Arya as his little sister and while his relationship with Sansa wasn't nonexistence , they were never close as far as we know. therefore , whenever he realizes he's not their brother, romanticizing the one he never particularly thought as his little sister would be easier.

2) for what it's worth , Sansa's first crush (Waymar Royce)  resembled Jon in looks (dark hair, dark grey eyes), personality (yes, Jon was indeed somewhat of an arrogant lordling at the beginning) and choice of profession (NightsWatch) ... meanwhile , although Jon's first love couldn't be further from Sansa but her hair was kissed by fire like Sansa! 

3) Jon's still biased about lady-like women and Sansa used to put too much value in status. But , Jon meets Alys Karstark a strong un-warrior winter lady much like Sansa who is called winter lady , as well. (or was it winter maid?) . and at the same time Sansa pretends to be a bastard... coincidence?!

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight9]

I don't believe in Jon entering a romantic relationship with either of his sisters, he may love and care very strongly for Arya in particular but as his favorite sister, and get much closer to Sansa, but with nothing sexual or romantic. 

 

Edited February 13, 2022 by Terrorthatflapsinthenight9

[Corvo the Crow]

2 hours ago, Terrorthatflapsinthenight9 said:

I don't believe in Jon entering a romantic relationship with either of his sisters, he may love and care very strongly for Arya in particular but as his favorite sister, and get much closer to Sansa, but with nothing sexual or romantic. 

 

But it was supposed to be as such with Tyrion-Arya-Jon Triangle. Now the gap has been scrapped and Sansa married to Tyrion, it will probably JonSa or perhaps a triangle with Tyrion but I doubt Tyrion would want her with Sailor's Wife on the horizon.

[Apoplexy]

GRRM's original plan was to have a Jon-Arya romantic angle. He scrapped the idea (thank god, it was a terrible idea), so I doubt he will switch to a Jon-Sansa romance.

[Corvo the Crow]

10 minutes ago, Apoplexy said:

GRRM's original plan was to have a Jon-Arya romantic angle. He scrapped the idea (thank god, it was a terrible idea), so I doubt he will switch to a Jon-Sansa romance.

You'd think so, but there are clues. For starters, why give Sansa a Waymar crush? Sansa will crave for the forbidden fruit, only to learn that it's not forbidden for her at all, Westerosi being cousin marrying backwards incestual people and all that and as for Jon, Ygritte paved the way for him to have a better appreciation of redheads. 

Edited February 13, 2022 by Corvo the Crow

[Apoplexy]

6 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said:

You'd think so, but there are clues. For starters, why give Sansa a Waymar crush? Sansa will crave for the forbidden fruit, only to learn that it's not forbidden for her at all, Westerosi being cousin marrying backwards incestual people and all that and as for Jon, Ygritte paved the way for him to have a better appreciation of redheads. 

I'm going to have to say I disagree.

[EggBlue]

1 hour ago, Corvo the Crow said:

You'd think so, but there are clues. For starters, why give Sansa a Waymar crush? Sansa will crave for the forbidden fruit, only to learn that it's not forbidden for her at all, Westerosi being cousin marrying backwards incestual people and all that and as for Jon, Ygritte paved the way for him to have a better appreciation of redheads. 

I don't know man... Val & Sandor seem to be there for Jon and Sansa's romance. and a lot of Goerge's initial plans were scrapped as early as the first book. Cat didn't go to WF with Arya, Sansa didn't betray her family, Tyrion never interacted with Arya ,Jaimie didn't kill everyone to sit the throne himself and instead of Dothraki invasion right after Wo5K , the GC attacked... the story is just too different. but I'd say this, clues pointing to JonSa are a lot stronger than Jonerys! yet people still ship the latter passionately:)

[Corvo the Crow]

7 minutes ago, EggBlue said:

I don't know man... Val & Sandor seem to be there for Jon and Sansa's romance. and a lot of Goerge's initial plans were scrapped as early as the first book. Cat didn't go to WF with Arya, Sansa didn't betray her family, Tyrion never interacted with Arya ,Jaimie didn't kill everyone to sit the throne himself and instead of Dothraki invasion right after Wo5K , the GC attacked... the story is just too different. but I'd say this, clues pointing to JonSa are a lot stronger than Jonerys! yet people still ship the latter passionately:)

I think that Sansa's crush on Waymar was written after the changes on plans, because why would she have a crush on Jon look alike Waymar in the first draft? Jaime turning out to be a good fellow always felt weird to me, like a lot of the AFFC stuff, especially most of the Dorne stuff, and after learning about the original draft it made some sense. As for Danaerys, it's too close for comfort, being his aunt and all. A cousin can be ok for Jon who was raised a First Man but going for an aunt is too Targaryen (even though we've seen some half uncle - niece stuff in Stark tree)

Also, Jon can go all Ygon oldfather on us and take multiple wives. If you're going to break your vows, why not break them in (bad) fashion? 

Edited February 13, 2022 by Corvo the Crow

[Springwatch]

1 hour ago, Corvo the Crow said:

You'd think so, but there are clues. For starters, why give Sansa a Waymar crush? Sansa will crave for the forbidden fruit, only to learn that it's not forbidden for her at all, Westerosi being cousin marrying backwards incestual people and all that and as for Jon, Ygritte paved the way for him to have a better appreciation of redheads. 

I like the Waymar parallel, but probably it's just an echo back to Aegon and his sisters. Jonsa would cause sooo much controversy. Although - I've no idea how widespread the taboo against cousin marriage is in the world today. People could be reading this forum who are married to their cousin.