Aussies and NZers: Four seasons in one protest

[Paxter]

On 9/13/2022 at 5:38 PM, The Anti-Targ said:

Without clicking the link. How many Australian boarders know what this headline is referring to?

Wasn't aware of it but I'm hardly surprised by that report.

This week the following allegations (among others) have emerged with respect to Aboriginal players from the Hawthorn footy club:

Quote

One said coaching staff had "demanded that I needed to get rid of my unborn child and my partner".

"I was then manipulated and convinced to remove my SIM card from my phone so there was no further contact between my family and me. They told me I'd be living with one of the other coaches from that night onward," he said.

WTF. 

[karaddin]

Yeah, Brook was reading a bunch of that out. It's abusive predator behaviour at best and could be argued to be outright kidnapping via extreme coercion 

[The Anti-Targ]

It's like the stolen generation repeating itself, in a different guise but basically the same attitude.

[karaddin]

5 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said:

It's like the stolen generation repeating itself, in a different guise but basically the same attitude.

Oh we've got that much more transparently still in forced removals that are going to wind up with another apology in a decade or two. This country is so fucking awful to our First Nations people

[Raja]

Alright, Australia. What are your presentors on exactly?

 

[Paxter]

5 hours ago, Raja said:

Alright, Australia. What are your presentors on exactly?

Haha don’t put those guys on us. Sky After Dark is truly fringe Murdoch media - even for our little backwater country.

One of the previous co-hosts of that show was sacked for describing Chinese people in a disgusting fashion. Who knew that Rupert had any shame!

[karaddin]

8 hours ago, Raja said:

Alright, Australia. What are your presentors on exactly?

The one thing that makes that less bad than it seems is that it's not a mainstream news program, Sky itself isn't even particularly big here - it's on pay TV which a lot of people don't have and that particular segment gets like low 5 figure viewer numbers or something. Very heavily skewed for conservative political staffers etc. The down side is that said staffers then think that it's representative of most of their supporters which it is not. But it's no Fox news.

Rowan Dean was one of the assholes that capitalized on the public broadcaster inviting far right figures onto talk shows for the sake of "balance", but despite that seems to primarily be on this show with a tiny audience.

[Paxter]

Pure filth on display at the recent “Australia Cup” final. Booing the Welcome to Country, nazi salutes and singing of fascist chants. 

I know it’s a small segment of the population, but this is fucking disgusting and embarrassing. FFA - sort your shit out.

[Raja]

On 9/22/2022 at 1:21 PM, Paxter said:

Haha don’t put those guys on us. Sky After Dark is truly fringe Murdoch media - even for our little backwater country.

One of the previous co-hosts of that show was sacked for describing Chinese people in a disgusting fashion. Who knew that Rupert had any shame!

Realized I never got back to you & @karaddin!

Interesting that sky is a fringe thing in Australia, it's probably one of the biggger news channels over here after the BBC. I read this thread all the time cause my sister is in NZ and I'm probably looking to go there in the next couple of decades, but I couldn't resist posting that.

[The Anti-Targ]

1 hour ago, Raja said:

Realized I never got back to you & @karaddin!

Interesting that sky is a fringe thing in Australia, it's probably one of the biggger news channels over here after the BBC. I read this thread all the time cause my sister is in NZ and I'm probably looking to go there in the next couple of decades, but I couldn't resist posting that.

I wouldn't wait too long. Allegedly NZ is meant to be one of the lifeboat countries, if such comes to pass it might be a tad bit difficult to get in 20 years hence.

[karaddin]

5 hours ago, Raja said:

Realized I never got back to you & @karaddin!

Interesting that sky is a fringe thing in Australia, it's probably one of the biggger news channels over here after the BBC. I read this thread all the time cause my sister is in NZ and I'm probably looking to go there in the next couple of decades, but I couldn't resist posting that.

Yeah I only connected the dots to explain how fringe it is here because I know that's not the case there.

I'd echo AT's point on the immigration situation possibly getting worse. I don't think Aus is being seen in quite the same light as NZ, but we do love bullshit political theatre about the borders. Some of the worst shit the Tories trot out there has already been beta tested here. It's not remotely indicative of what people are like in person where I live, but it's the politics.

[Raja]

2 hours ago, karaddin said:

I'd echo AT's point on the immigration situation possibly getting worse. I don't think Aus is being seen in quite the same light as NZ, but we do love bullshit political theatre about the borders.

 

6 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said:

I wouldn't wait too long. Allegedly NZ is meant to be one of the lifeboat countries, if such comes to pass it might be a tad bit difficult to get in 20 years hence.

Yeah, *some* Australian immigration policies make some of the UK ones look positively humane. I'm not sure what the landscape will be like in 10 years, but at the moment getting residency in NZ is quite easy if you're a healthcare professional, especially one that has worked in the UK - the NZ govt introduced a 'straight to residency' visa for doctors this year, which allows you to get an indefinate visa to work & live in NZ as soon as you get a job.

[The Anti-Targ]

Arguably Australia is getting close to its carrying capacity, given a lot of it is unproductive desert. New Zealand, on the other hand, IMO could triple its population if it planned how to do it right. Several years ago a New Zealand economic research group said NZ should make a policy and a plan for 12-15 million population by 2050. It hasn't been picked up by any party as a policy, which means the population growth that has occurred since then has been unplanned and chaotic leading to a fair bit of avoidable infrastructure strain. At the time the research group released its recommendation NZ was sitting at a bit over 4 million population, we now have 5 million.

[Paxter]

Differing view on Australia’s population capacity. With better management of our cities and the environment, we could be a much larger country population wise. Access to water is a challenge in the long term but not completely insurmountable. Other natural resources and space we have in abundance. And the pandemic and associated labour shortages have underscored how badly we need both skilled and less skilled individuals to power our economy and provide services to the ageing and burgeoning boomers generation.

Unfortunately many Australians have their heads stuck too far up their arses for us to restore better immigration policy. Albo’s recent changes on skilled labour are an absolutel drop in the ocean. 

[Paxter]

Oh forgot to say, in a rare win for common sense, Labor is apparently looking at backing away from the Stage 3 tax cuts. It would constitute a broken promise, but meh. Obviously the right thing to do, economically, financially and morally, if not always politically. 

Truss’ failed tax cuts are probably proving an inspiration(!)

[Raja]

Yeah, very skeptical about 'carrying capacity' arguements, especially when you look into the history of research as it pertains to that field.

[The Anti-Targ]

With enough usable energy and sensible use of space, there is practically no limit to carrying capacity, I guess. You can desalinate as much water as you need with energy abundance. You can turn thin air into fertiliser with energy abundance. You can turn fertiliser into food, you can turn waste into useful stuff etc etc, you can turn copper into gold. Without energy abundance there is a hard limit on carrying capacity for individual countries and for the world. 

Australia could have the population of the USA, but probably not with current technology or production systems. New Zealand could have the population of the UK, potentially with current technology and production systems. With future technology New Zealand could potentially have a larger population than the current USA, with a population density roughly the same as Bangladesh* today, but maintaining a quality of life similar to what we have now. With future technology Australia could house more than the current population of the Earth, at current Bangladesh population density.

So NZ 15 million is rather a modest population ambition. Probably Australia 60 million is pretty modest too.

Climate change notwithstanding of course, though that is all about dealing with the energy abundance issue. So crack that and we're sweet.

I think the moral of the story for our political leaders is that no one should fear well managed and planned population growth. It's the unmanaged and unplanned population growth that causes problems. That and racism / xenophobia.

 

*Bangladesh being probably the most densely populated country that is not essentially a city-state, like Monaco, Singapore or Hong Kong

[The Anti-Targ]

Of course seismically speaking we probably don't want that many people here, best to go to Aus with the rest of the planet.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/shaky-isles-why-nzs-seismic-hazard-has-just-increased/T3E7EOHJYAVMSKRVWWOENOP2MY/

https://www.1news.co.nz/2022/09/28/geonet-gives-lake-taupo-volcanic-alert-update-as-unrest-continues/

[Skyrazer]

7 hours ago, Paxter said:

Oh forgot to say, in a rare win for common sense, Labor is apparently looking at backing away from the Stage 3 tax cuts. It would constitute a broken promise, but meh. Obviously the right thing to do, economically, financially and morally, if not always politically. 

Truss’ failed tax cuts are probably proving an inspiration(!)

Yeah Truss' backpedal on the UK's planned tax cuts probably makes it easier for Labor to backpedal on ours.

As reluctant as Labor seem to be with cancelling the ridiculous stage 3 cuts, I reckon they won't end up seeing the light of day. Between now and 2024, they'll either be cancelled or atleast heavily watered down.

[karaddin]

5 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said:

Of course seismically speaking we probably don't want that many people here, best to go to Aus with the rest of the planet.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/shaky-isles-why-nzs-seismic-hazard-has-just-increased/T3E7EOHJYAVMSKRVWWOENOP2MY/

https://www.1news.co.nz/2022/09/28/geonet-gives-lake-taupo-volcanic-alert-update-as-unrest-continues/

I've been wondering how the cyclone situation is going to look as well - will they start hitting NZ? Will NZ function a shield for SE Australia for at least deflecting some of them? There's probably modeling of this but I haven't seen it.