Heresy 242 The Other Starks

[alienarea]

Or maybe two thirds of the book will be Essos food porn.

[Black Crow]

1 hour ago, alienarea said:

Or maybe two thirds of the book will be Essos food porn.

Possibly, but in view of what's predicted, it'll be graphic descriptions of starvation, boiled boots and cannibalism

[alienarea]

19 hours ago, Black Crow said:

Possibly, but in view of what's predicted, it'll be graphic descriptions of starvation, boiled boots and cannibalism

I'm not enthusiastic about the book either way.

Either both books are finished and he made some side money with a clause that he'll only publish them five (ten?) years after the end of the tv series, or he'll cram as much as possible into TWoW, as finishing ADoS becomes more unlikely by each day.

 

[Black Crow]

If we go back to the recent blog comment: "THE WINDS OF WINTER is going to be a big book. The way it is going, it could be bigger than A STORM OF STORMS [SIC] or A DANCE WITH DRAGONS, the longest books in the series to date. I do usually cut and trim once I finish, but I need to finish first."  It's worth noting of course that both books had to be split into two volumes for paperback.

I remain optimistic

 

[LynnS]

3 hours ago, Black Crow said:

If we go back to the recent blog comment: "THE WINDS OF WINTER is going to be a big book. The way it is going, it could be bigger than A STORM OF STORMS [SIC] or A DANCE WITH DRAGONS, the longest books in the series to date. I do usually cut and trim once I finish, but I need to finish first."  It's worth noting of course that both books had to be split into two volumes for paperback.

I remain optimistic

 

This does sound a lot better to me.  At least he is thinking of cutting and editing now.  So, I'm optimistic too.

[LynnS]

"If I wanted War and Peace, I would have hired Shakespear."

 

[Matthew.]

10 hours ago, alienarea said:

I'm not enthusiastic about the book either way.

Either both books are finished and he made some side money with a clause that he'll only publish them five (ten?) years after the end of the tv series, or he'll cram as much as possible into TWoW, as finishing ADoS becomes more unlikely by each day.

 

I'm feeling fairly pessimistic about it as well.

TWoW being a big book seems more like the rule than the exception; the publishing circumstances for every single book in the series except for ASOS was that GRRM had written more material than could be physically bound in a hard cover, and Anne Groell had to practically drag a portion of the manuscript out of GRRM's hand and convince him to split whatever volume he was working on.

Increasingly, my suspicion is that GRRM's clout in his relationship with his publisher is now so disproportionate that he cannot be convinced to do another split, and is going to try to make his remaining story work in only two volumes--which, IMO, isn't possible. 

If GRRM is left to tinker with TWoW until it meets his satisfaction - rewriting whenever he has a new idea he wants to retroactively introduce, trying to hit all of his intended plot points without taking shortcuts, struggling with Meereenese Knot-esque problems - then I suspect that, not only will we never see ADOS, we might not even see TWoW.

[LynnS]

49 minutes ago, Matthew. said:

I'm feeling fairly pessimistic about it as well.

Will you be watching House of the Dragon?

[Back in Black-Snow]

15 minutes ago, LynnS said:

Will you be watching House of the Dragon?

I will be. With a show like this, based on the material we have, they have to make some changes to make it work for TV. I'm okay with that. What D and D did with Game of Thrones, they did not have to do that. They could have easily gotten 2-3 more seasons out of it. They made HUGE mistakes by not including Lady Stoneheart, fAegon, killing off Barristan, and some other stuff that should have remained faithful to the text.

[Matthew.]

11 hours ago, LynnS said:

Will you be watching House of the Dragon?

At the least, I plan on watching the first two episodes and seeing how I feel about it. I'm kind of lukewarm towards the subject matter, but I'm open to the possibility of a good execution elevating it into something I'll enjoy watching.

[Black Crow]

So far as watching goes, much will obviously depend on how it compares with the book. GRRM is happy right now, but the first series of AGoT was also pretty faithful to the book. Obviously we don't have the same conflict in that A Song of Ice and Fire is still unfinished, while in overall Westerosi terms we know how the Dragon will end

What I think is important, and will become clearer, is that while the Targaryens/Dragons business is important as the end of the day we are dealing with two completely different stories

[alienarea]

Maybe it is as simple as this:

A Song of Ice and Fire is about the end of two great houses with magical abilities.

[LynnS]

I know almost nothing about this story.  I wasn't really swept up by the dragons. But I'm always curious to see what the film industry can do with this kind of materia.  It also looks like they have signed some good actors. I don't want to know a lot about it in advance. 

[Matthew.]

3 hours ago, LynnS said:

I know almost nothing about this story.  I wasn't really swept up by the dragons. But I'm always curious to see what the film industry can do with this kind of materia.  It also looks like they have signed some good actors. I don't want to know a lot about it in advance. 

I also never read the book, nor do I know much of anything about the story, beyond what has been referenced in the main series books. 

I do recall one portion of the book that was brought up in a prior Heresy, a tale that the bards spread, that I would be interested in seeing depicted on screen if it turns out to be true (spoiler tagged in case you don't want to know):
 

Spoiler

Supposedly, one of the dragonriders went to the Isle of Faces to consult with the Green Men during the early stages of the war.

Just in purely visual terms, I'd think the Isle of Faces would be neat looking, but I'm also curious to see how the Green Men are presented.

 

[LynnS]

14 minutes ago, Matthew. said:

I do recall one portion of the book that was brought up in a prior Heresy, a tale that the bards spread, that I would be interested in seeing depicted on screen if it turns out to be true (spoiler tagged in case you don't want to know):

Yes, I recall something about it.  That would be interesting to me as well. As far as spoilers go; there are so many characters and so much subterfuge, I can't understand or follow any of the current conversations.   It's sounds complicated and I'm not sure how all the intruiging will translate to film.  I read Fire and Blood but I don't remember much of it.  I'm not even sure how much of it is territory that is going to be covered in the show.

I don't think it will go off the rails in the way that GoT did though.   There are some good actors, so there could be some great character development.  I'm also interested in visual and sound design and the industry makes leaps and bound every few years.

So we'll see.  I don't want to have a predetermined bias about what it is supposed to be.

[LynnS]

On 3/1/2022 at 4:12 PM, alienarea said:

This sentence is ambiguos in my understanding. Is Brandon Stark Bran, tasting the blood of the captive? Or is Brandon Stark the captive, tasting his own blood?

Is Bran all Brandon Starks, i.e. a loop, the cause for the seasons being out of sync?

This has puzzled me for a while.  Tasting blood in real time for an event that happens in the past is awfully wierd.  I get that seeing past events is just that; but tasting blood in his mouth?  How is that a just a memory?  

[alienarea]

13 hours ago, LynnS said:

This has puzzled me for a while.  Tasting blood in real time for an event that happens in the past is awfully wierd.  I get that seeing past events is just that; but tasting blood in his mouth?  How is that a just a memory?  

In my opinion this is when (current) Bran starts to put things together. It is him tasting the blood, and he'll realise it is his own, and that he's all Brandon Starks.

That will lead to him figuring out what needs to happen. I guess that includes sacrifices for the greater good.

[Black Crow]

14 hours ago, LynnS said:

This has puzzled me for a while.  Tasting blood in real time for an event that happens in the past is awfully wierd.  I get that seeing past events is just that; but tasting blood in his mouth?  How is that a just a memory?  

I think it may be an illustration of the individual becoming part of the hive mind

[LynnS]

1 hour ago, alienarea said:

In my opinion this is when (current) Bran starts to put things together. It is him tasting the blood, and he'll realise it is his own, and that he's all Brandon Starks.

That will lead to him figuring out what needs to happen. I guess that includes sacrifices for the greater good.

I guess I'm thinking about the wiernet as being portals or gateways in time, a bridge between past and future,  Is Bran's consciousness really participating rather than just viewing a recording?

28 minutes ago, Black Crow said:

I think it may be an illustration of the individual becoming part of the hive mind

I think it's also an illustration that the wierwood net is one organism connected through the root system.  Bran is instructed to go down into the roots and he ends up at Winterfell.  Unless the roots are destroyed, tree stumps are still connected to the net as well.

If wierwoods are doors and portals, how are they connected to the Wall, a gigantic magical door hinge? 

[LynnS]

In Martin's earlier works involving consciousness time travelling; he allows for the traveller to occupy another mind.  I can see this being one of Bran's potential powers.  Do the Others also have the ability to travel  using the wiernet as a bridge between future and past?  Was the preternatural/supernatural event something that caused that door to open for them?  Was Bran's vision of the heart of winter, a vision of the future?