Heresy 242 The Other Starks

[LynnS]

Blood moon eclipse May 15.

Witness a Total Lunar Eclipse on Sunday, May 15–16 - Sky & Telescope - Sky & Telescope (skyandtelescope.org)

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A Game of Thrones - Eddard X

"No," Ned said with sadness in his voice. "Now it ends." As they came together in a rush of steel and shadow, he could hear Lyanna screaming. "Eddard!" she called. A storm of rose petals blew across a blood-streaked sky, as blue as the eyes of death.

c99ae6bb459cfe272570fba61f409ce8--rouge-sang-moon-painting.jpg (500×750) (pinimg.com)

I do find it curious that the working title for the AGOT prequel The Long Night was Blood Moon.

So perhaps the blood streaked sky refers to a Blood Moon.

 

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A Dance with Dragons - Tyrion VIII

Only the brightest stars were visible, all to the west. A dull red glow lit the sky to the northeast, the color of a blood bruise. Tyrion had never seen a bigger moon. Monstrous, swollen, it looked as if it had swallowed the sun and woken with a fever. Its twin, floating on the sea beyond the ship, shimmered red with every wave. "What hour is this?" he asked Moqorro. "That cannot be sunrise unless the east has moved. Why is the sky red?"

 

[LynnS]

On 5/12/2022 at 2:08 PM, Frey family reunion said:

Much of it is predicated on the idea that GRRM has intentionally woven some aspects of Persephone's tales within Lyanna.  A large number of posters have seen parallels with Lyanna's abduction and Persephone's abduction by Hades.

Hades in this case would be represented by the old gods of the underworld.  Perhaps even Bran or Bloodraven.  I've wondered if they were involved with Lyanna's kidnapping and disappearance.

[alienarea]

The old GRRM dilemma once more: one the one hand he gets praised as the most innovative writer going against all tropes (except R+L=J), on the other he borrows from history and "classic" fantasy and future books can be predicted based on this.

Nope. He's a fantastic writer of short stories who got lost in his opus magnus.

[LynnS]

Have you been watching any of the newer stuff on tv @alienarea?  Anything to recommend?  Will you be watching House of Dragons?

[alienarea]

11 hours ago, LynnS said:

Have you been watching any of the newer stuff on tv @alienarea?  Anything to recommend?  Will you be watching House of Dragons?

Just finished watching Outer Range, which was just weird. Don't plan on watching House of the Dragon, but who knows.

Reading some newer books about Troy.

[LynnS]

I've never heard of this kids sleep-over game before:

Paranormal Games: Red Door, Yellow Door (ihorror.com)

Red Door/Yellow Door or Black Door/White Door is a doors of the mind game.  Some of the rules sound very much like Dany's trip through House of Undying or Jon's dreams of Winterfell; both featuring hallways will doors, rooms that may be occupied etc.  The rules remind me of Pyat Pree's instructions to Dany (move up, never down). you may be trapped, etc.

[GOTSeriesfan]

On 5/4/2022 at 9:36 PM, Melifeather said:

The disturbing thing Ned told Bran was that he allowed Robert to believe that Rhaegar kidnapped Lyanna, gave up the woman he loved, and refused Jon his birthright as heir, in favor of a marriage alliance that secured Robert's throne. The whole conquest was built on lies. What could be more disturbing than that?

Ikr. A war that killed the crown prince everyone loved and hoped would undo the damage done by his lunatic father was built on a lie. Only Aerys' crimes were a valid reason for the war. But Rhaegar's misdeeds being the cause was a lie. And how could the Seven Kingdoms just accept a victory which ended in treachery and the rape and murder of a princess and the brutal killing of children. Youngsters are not responsible for their father's crimes. How could they accept those brutal murders.
It's so obvious why Robert is still called the Usurper, he killed the crown prince, crushing the realm's best hope at the time and willingly accepted the deaths of two children who were butchered for no other reason than being part of the royal family

[LynnS]

This is interesting.  What Aemon knew about prophecy and dragon dreams.  Why he went to the Wall.

 

[Black Crow]

Aux Contraire GOTseriesfan: The Targaryens and their dragons were alien to Westeros and with the dragons themselves killed off it was time to drive out the Targaryens. Aerys may or may not have been bad - who should we really believe [?] but Rhaegar was just another of the breed 

[LynnS]

GRRM uses different gemstones and crystals for magical purposes:

Gemstones match the color of the eyes of the magic user.

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A Game of Thrones - Bran III

Finally he looked north. He saw the Wall shining like blue crystal, and his bastard brother Jon sleeping alone in a cold bed, his skin growing pale and hard as the memory of all warmth fled from him.

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A Game of Thrones - Jon VII

Jon could feel his breakfast churning in his belly, but he pressed his lips together and made himself look at the second body. Othor had been a big ugly man, and he made a big ugly corpse. No axe was in evidence. Jon remembered Othor; he had been the one bellowing the bawdy song as the rangers rode out. His singing days were done. His flesh was blanched white as milk, everywhere but his hands. His hands were black like Jafer's. Blossoms of hard cracked blood decorated the mortal wounds that covered him like a rash, breast and groin and throat. Yet his eyes were still open. They stared up at the sky, blue as sapphires.

If the magic of the Wall can be used as Mel claims; did the Night King access it's magic?

If obsidion can neutralize ice magic; does it have something to do with Coldhands state as a wight.  Was this the kind of protection given to the Watch by the COTF with the annual tribute of 100 pieces of dragonglass.  Besides the obvious weapon it makes; can it interfere with conversion to ice wight? 

[alienarea]

On 5/19/2022 at 3:36 PM, LynnS said:

GRRM uses different gemstones and crystals for magical purposes:

Gemstones match the color of the eyes of the magic user.

If the magic of the Wall can be used as Mel claims; did the Night King access it's magic?

If obsidion can neutralize ice magic; does it have something to do with Coldhands state as a wight.  Was this the kind of protection given to the Watch by the COTF with the annual tribute of 100 pieces of dragonglass.  Besides the obvious weapon it makes; can it interfere with conversion to ice wight? 

You reminded me of some interesting points. 

- The wall was build before the Night King - but did it start growing with the Night King?

- Bran's vision of the sacrifice - maybe it ends before the sacrificed man gets inserted a piece of dragonglass and becomes Coldhands (though I still want the sacrifice to be Bran)

- maybe there is a connection to the dragonglass gift of the CotF and the Night Watch oath? I'm thinking about the men of the watch initially getting implanted with a piece of dragonglass so they cannot become ice wights if they fall battling the white walkers, but as a downside cannot father children anymore?

- if a nightwatch man gets a dragonglass implant, and a white walker hits this nightwatch man, does the white walker dissolve because of the dragonglass?

 

[LynnS]

1 hour ago, alienarea said:

- Bran's vision of the sacrifice - maybe it ends before the sacrificed man gets inserted a piece of dragonglass and becomes Coldhands (though I still want the sacrifice to be Bran)

I think that what D&D did with the Night King was just bunk. They magined him up because they needed a villain.  So Bran's vision of that scene is poppycock as well.  

As far as I know you have to be dead to rise as a wight but the white walkers are something else - souls with a body of living ice - made of ice and snow and cold.  Just as dragons are fire and air made flesh.

But what do we know of the Long Night of the Night King?  When was Coldhands made into a wight?  Was that as recent as Blooddraven's disappearance or does he date from the time of the NK?  Is he one of Bloodraven's cohort - the Raven's Teeth?

How does he know the old tongue and the whereabouts of the Black Gate and the words to open it?  That suggests that he predates Bloodraven.

Does the dragonglass offer protection against ice magic for the bearer?  Besides as a weapon againat WWs?   How?

My other burning question now is if Joramun's horn wakes the kings of winter in the crypts; what happened when he blew the hornthe last time?  Did Joramun and the Stark of Winterfell need the kings of winter to defeat the NK?  Or the WWs?  Is this how the NK was defeated and is this why all records were destroyed?  The horn disabled?

 

[LynnS]

Crowfood's Daughter of the Disputed Lands presents some pretty interesting ideas about the AA/tPWIP Pprophecies; the meaning of the Sphynx is the riddle which gives the answer to the mysterious dragon with three heads. 

Spoiler:  there is more than one character who will be a part of fulfilling the AA/PWIP prophecy.  The dragon has tree heads - so there are THREE.  If the Sphinx is the answer to the riddle - it's made of a bit of this and a bit of that.

Amanda tells us who she thinks two of the heads will be. 

I'll riff off this idea and look at the sphinx that guard the Citadel:

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A Feast for Crows - Samwell V

The gates of the Citadel were flanked by a pair of towering green sphinxes with the bodies of lions, the wings of eagles, and the tails of serpents. One had a man's face, one a woman's. Just beyond stood Scribe's Hearth, where Oldtowners came in search of acolytes to write their wills and read their letters. Half a dozen bored scribes sat in open stalls, waiting for some custom. At other stalls books were being bought and sold. Sam stopped at one that offered maps, and looked over a hand-drawn map of Citadel to ascertain the shortest way to the Seneschal's Court.

 

 Did Martin already give us the answer?  It's just the question we don't understand?

Are the three heads of AA/3-headed Dragon: a lion, an eagle and a dragon (serpent)?

I'm starting to doubt that the 3 heads are specifically about who will ride a dragon.  Especially if Victarion gets his hands on one, or GRRM decides to kill off a dragon.

Aemon says he must be one of the heads and show Dany the way; but he is too old.  Who will show Dany the way?  If Dany is the dragon; who are the lion and eagle? 

 

[LynnS]

One of the most confusing aspects of GRRMs writing concerns the modelling of religion after Zoroastrianism and Catharism.  The religion of red rahloo seems mostly modelled aft zorozstrianism and the cult of Mithras.  It's less clear how GRRMh as reimagined Catharism how it applies to ASOIAF.  There seem to be bits and pieces of Cathar doctrie scattered throughout the Faith of the Seven.  The Andal invasions seem to be crusades against the old gods and te COTF. The Night Watch also embodies certain aspects of Cathar doctrine.  So who were the Cathars?

 

[alienarea]

17 hours ago, LynnS said:

I think that what D&D did with the Night King was just bunk. They magined him up because they needed a villain.  So Bran's vision of that scene is poppycock as well.  

As far as I know you have to be dead to rise as a wight but the white walkers are something else - souls with a body of living ice - made of ice and snow and cold.  Just as dragons are fire and air made flesh.

But what do we know of the Long Night of the Night King?  When was Coldhands made into a wight?  Was that as recent as Blooddraven's disappearance or does he date from the time of the NK?  Is he one of Bloodraven's cohort - the Raven's Teeth?

How does he know the old tongue and the whereabouts of the Black Gate and the words to open it?  That suggests that he predates Bloodraven.

Does the dragonglass offer protection against ice magic for the bearer?  Besides as a weapon againat WWs?   How?

My other burning question now is if Joramun's horn wakes the kings of winter in the crypts; what happened when he blew the hornthe last time?  Did Joramun and the Stark of Winterfell need the kings of winter to defeat the NK?  Or the WWs?  Is this how the NK was defeated and is this why all records were destroyed?  The horn disabled?

 

And maybe the White Walkers we encounter in the current timeline are not the White Walkers of the long night but the Kings of the Winter? The cursed, ancient Starks just wanting to go home?

[LynnS]

1 minute ago, alienarea said:

And maybe the White Walkers we encounter in the current timeline are not the White Walkers of the long night but the Kings of the Winter? The cursed, ancient Starks just wanting to go home?

Joramund blew the horn of winter and the Wall didn't fall down. So it must do something else.  Waking giants in the earth.  Jon wonders if blowing the horn a second time puts them back to sleep.    So are they still roaming around beyonf the Wall or were they put back into thier stone crypts waiting on the day they will be called and bound to someone's will?  Thae whole thing covered up by destroying all records of the NK.

 

[LynnS]

This is an iteresting channel if you are interested in the history of magic.

ESOTERICA - YouTube

[Frey family reunion]

On 5/21/2022 at 8:31 AM, LynnS said:

One of the most confusing aspects of GRRMs writing concerns the modelling of religion after Zoroastrianism and Catharism.  The religion of red rahloo seems mostly modelled aft zorozstrianism and the cult of Mithras.  It's less clear how GRRMh as reimagined Catharism how it applies to ASOIAF.  There seem to be bits and pieces of Cathar doctrie scattered throughout the Faith of the Seven.  The Andal invasions seem to be crusades against the old gods and te COTF. The Night Watch also embodies certain aspects of Cathar doctrine.  So who were the Cathars?

 

From what I recall, the Red Priests were supposed to be some mix of Zoroastrianism and Catharism.  From the Cathars it took the idea of two gods, a good god and a bad god.

[LynnS]

Well, that was strange.  Five days without power and water.  Put me into hunter-gatherer mode.  Hunting for batteries and going down to the boat launch to collect water to flush the loo.  Everything in my fridge and freezer spoiled.  

This storm that went through Ontario was something else.  All of a sudden is was black and I ran around shutting everything off, unplugging appliances.  The wind and rain was fierce and lasted for all of ten minutes. Power went out immediately,  When it was over, I went outside and damn. there's a branch on the ground but nothing serious.  Then I noticed  the top 20 feet of the pine tree on my neighbor's roof.

Two doors down another tree down and one at the end of the street.  Two streets over, three more trees down. That's when you get the inkling that this was a big one.  No phone, no internet,no news, no information.  No gas stations, no debit cards, no stores are open.  

So whenever someone goes by the house, you stick your head out the window and ask "You got any news?" One restaurant had a generator and people volunteered to work just to feed people.

Finally getting back to normal.

[alienarea]

9 hours ago, LynnS said:

Well, that was strange.  Five days without power and water.  Put me into hunter-gatherer mode.  Hunting for batteries and going down to the boat launch to collect water to flush the loo.  Everything in my fridge and freezer spoiled.  

This storm that went through Ontario was something else.  All of a sudden is was black and I ran around shutting everything off, unplugging appliances.  The wind and rain was fierce and lasted for all of ten minutes. Power went out immediately,  When it was over, I went outside and damn. there's a branch on the ground but nothing serious.  Then I noticed  the top 20 feet of the pine tree on my neighbor's roof.

Two doors down another tree down and one at the end of the street.  Two streets over, three more trees down. That's when you get the inkling that this was a big one.  No phone, no internet,no news, no information.  No gas stations, no debit cards, no stores are open.  

So whenever someone goes by the house, you stick your head out the window and ask "You got any news?" One restaurant had a generator and people volunteered to work just to feed people.

Finally getting back to normal.

I'm very happy you are ok. Sounds intense.

We had a tornado over here, too, luckily not in my area. But not that far away. Scary.