Heresy 242 The Other Starks

[LynnS]

4 hours ago, alienarea said:

I'm very happy you are ok. Sounds intense.

We had a tornado over here, too, luckily not in my area. But not that far away. Scary.

It was something alright.  The initial problem is not knowing the extent of the damage or how widespread it is, since all communications are knocked out.  Luckily I had stocked up on bottled water, had a full tank of gas, some cash and my prescriptions had just been refilled. I had batteries for candles and flashlight. Generators popped up along the street and I could get a hot cup of coffee and recharging my phone.  I put my medications that require refridgeration in my neighbor's fridge.  I could still get ahot  meal at one restaurant in town.  

It was damn cold at night though going down to 6 degrees celsius.  Plenty of pillows and blankets for roughing it.  The power came on last night but I still don't have water today.  With not much else to do... I was FORCED to read.  LOL!

  

[EggBlue]

40 minutes ago, LynnS said:

It was something alright.  The initial problem is not knowing the extent of the damage or how widespread it is, since all communications are knocked out.  Luckily I had stocked up on bottled water, had a full tank of gas, some cash and my prescriptions had just been refilled. I had batteries for candles and flashlight. Generators popped up along the street and I could get a hot cup of coffee and recharging my phone.  I put my medications that require refridgeration in my neighbor's fridge.  I could still get ahot  meal at one restaurant in town.  

It was damn cold at night though going down to 6 degrees celsius.  Plenty of pillows and blankets for roughing it.  The power came on last night but I still don't have water today.  With not much else to do... I was FORCED to read.  LOL!

  

you are describing an apocalyptic situation LynnS , glad you're ok:) by the way, is Earth rejecting us like it would a disease ? there was also a dreadful dust storm on this side of the planet this week that rendered the sky yellow and left people breathless..

[LynnS]

35 minutes ago, EggBlue said:

you are describing an apocalyptic situation LynnS , glad you're ok:) by the way, is Earth rejecting us like it would a disease ? there was also a dreadful dust storm on this side of the planet this week that rendered the sky yellow and left people breathless..

Say what?  A yellow sky?  That's end of days stuff right there.  

I'm back from my latest hunter-gatherer expedition.  The store shelves are pretty empty.  But I did score some creme, bread and a pizza for supper.  OMG! I can boil water, make coffee and toast.  I still have some canned soup,  fruit, veg and tons of pickles.

[EggBlue]

20 minutes ago, LynnS said:

Say what?  A yellow sky?  That's end of days stuff right there.  

I suppose so  

here are some photos . check it out:https://www.theatlantic.com/photo/2022/05/photos-sandstorms-sweep-across-parts-middle-east/629953/

20 minutes ago, LynnS said:

I'm back from my latest hunter-gatherer expedition.  The store shelves are pretty empty.  But I did score some creme, bread and a pizza for supper.  OMG! I can boil water, make coffee and toast.  I still have some canned soup,  fruit, veg and tons of pickles.

you are a lucky woman

[LynnS]

7 minutes ago, EggBlue said:

here are some photos . check it out:https://www.theatlantic.com/photo/2022/05/photos-sandstorms-sweep-across-parts-middle-east/629953/

 

OMG! That is wierd!  Yellow, sky, blood moon, tornados!  When does the comet arrive!

I was lucky not to have property damage or worse.  My neighbor's roof is fine.  The tree just snapped off and was cushioned by the branches.

The worst thing was going to the river for water.  There was a port-a-loo at the boat dock and I was both relieved and disgusted.   At least I don't have to go down to the river and pound my laundry with stones.   

[alienarea]

With all the things going on IRL GRRM should maybe rewrite TWoW into a fairytale with fluffy unicorns and Sansa in love.

Maybe that's why it takes so long  

[LynnS]

Recent interviews:

George RR Martin Say Game Of Thrones Red Wedding Is Better Than Star Wars (comicbook.com)

I thought Vikings was far more graphic and gruesome that Game of Thrones.  It was the unexpected nature of Ned's death that was so shocking.

George R.R. Martin opens up about fan reaction to 'Game of Thrones' ending (nme.com)

I'd like to get back to discussing what we love and enjoy.  "They are dropping atomic bombs on each other."

 

 

[Frey family reunion]

5 hours ago, LynnS said:

Recent interviews:

George RR Martin Say Game Of Thrones Red Wedding Is Better Than Star Wars (comicbook.com)

I thought Vikings was far more graphic and gruesome that Game of Thrones.  It was the unexpected nature of Ned's death that was so shocking.

George R.R. Martin opens up about fan reaction to 'Game of Thrones' ending (nme.com)

I'd like to get back to discussing what we love and enjoy.  "They are dropping atomic bombs on each other."

 

 

I think social media does breed negativity, but to try and cast fan's criticisms on social media of shows like AGOT as toxic is pretty disingenous.  

The last several seasons of AGOT were poorly written.  And GRRM is greatly at fault for not keeping ahead of the show's timetable.  

I got invested in AGOT because I wanted to see George's story brought to life on the screen.  I didn't sign up for D & D's poorly written fan fiction that the show became.  

[LynnS]

1 hour ago, Frey family reunion said:

I think social media does breed negativity, but to try and cast fan's criticisms on social media of shows like AGOT as toxic is pretty disingenous. 

I'm thinking about what I saw on certain forums.  Twitter was tame compared to that sorry business.  Fan criticism of D&D's adventure is not without merit.  But I'm also aware that my niece who never read the books; absolutely loved the show for all it's warts.  So I'm glad she enjoyed it and it was our weekly thing together. 

[Back in Black-Snow]

25 minutes ago, LynnS said:

I'm thinking about what I saw on certain forums.  Twitter was tame compared to that sorry business.  Fan criticism of D&D's adventure is not without merit.  But I'm also aware that my niece who never read the books; absolutely loved the show for all it's warts.  So I'm glad she enjoyed it and it was our weekly thing together. 

My dad absolutely loved the show. He wanted to live to see the end of the show. Sadly he passed away from cancer a few months before the final season aired. But as he had never read the books, I am sure he would have loved it. He loved for me to fill in the gaps since I had read the books, but sometimes it was just too different than what was on screen and it confused him at times.

[LynnS]

1 minute ago, Back in Black-Snow said:

My dad absolutely loved the show. He wanted to live to see the end of the show. Sadly he passed away from cancer a few months before the finalseason aired. But as he had never read the books, I am sure he would have loved it. He lived for me to fill in the gaps since I had read the books, but sometimes it was just too different than that was on screen and it confused him at times.

I'm sorry about your Dad.  He had you to fill in the ending and what a nice memory.   My Dad and I also shared an interest in sci-fi together and I have fond memories of movie night with him.  I did on occassion tell my niece about departures from the book but I didn't set up any expectation.  Only that reading the book would be another experience. I got to see her reaction to Ned's execution and the red wedding which was hilarious.

[LynnS]

Here's a good one.  You can see from the look on Robert's face and from his voice; just how much he loves talking about ASOIAF.  That's infectious.

 

[LynnS]

I enjoy listening to Aziz as well.  There is a lot of content as History of Westeros, especially if you want a refresher.  There is always something new to think about, ideas for discussion.  I've never thought that much about Septon Barth.

Aziz, Sean and Ashaya still produce new content on Valar Rereadis:

 

[Melifeather]

Latest Not A Blog: https://georgerrmartin.com/notablog/

Quote

WINDS, you say?   Yes, still working.   Finally finished a clutch of Cersei chapters that were giving me fits.   Now I am wrestling with Jaime and Brienne.   The work proceeds, though not as fast as many of you would like.

Interesting choice of words don’t you think?

[EggBlue]

5 hours ago, Melifeather said:

Latest Not A Blog: https://georgerrmartin.com/notablog/

Interesting choice of words don’t you think?

yes , interesting but I wouldn't read to much into it...

another interesting bit:

Quote

 I wish he had written more.   He had been working on a novel called BLACK TRAIN COMING even longer than I have been working on THE WINDS OF WINTER.  It would be great if one of his writer friends finishes it for him. 

 

[LynnS]

Here's one wekeep coming back to:

I'm still on the fence about how long Coldhands has been roaming around.  He was killed long ago according to Leaf.  But what does that mean to the COTF?  His state of preservation seems to indicate that long ago may be contemporary with Bloodravens disappearance, making CH one of BR's loyal Raven's Teeth, along on the ranging..  He claims to be a friend to the last greenseer.  Is that Bran or BR?

Where has he been all this time and how does he know about the Black Gate?  The old tongue?  Why does Bran compare him to a Green Man? 

We know that ice preserves and Mance was uncovering graves beneath a glacier in the Frostfangs.  Ygrain worries about the ghosts that were released.

Quote

A Storm of Swords - Jon IV

"Not for fear!" She kicked savagely at the ice beneath her with a heel, chopping out a chunk. "I'm crying because we never found the Horn of Winter. We opened half a hundred graves and let all those shades loose in the world, and never found the Horn of Joramun to bring this cold thing down!"

Mance claims to have found the grave of Joramun buried in the ice: 

Quote

A Dance with Dragons - Jon III

Lady Melisandre watched him rise. "FREE FOLK! Here stands your king of lies. And here is the horn he promised would bring down the Wall." Two queen's men brought forth the Horn of Joramun, black and banded with old gold, eight feet long from end to end. Runes were carved into the golden bands, the writing of the First Men. Joramun had died thousands of years ago, but Mance had found his grave beneath a glacier, high up in the Frostfangs. And Joramun blew the Horn of Winter, and woke giants from the earth. Ygritte had told Jon that Mance never found the horn. She lied, or else Mance kept it secret even from his own.

I'm not sure Mance found Joramund's grave specifically, but did he open Colhand's grave and release him into the world?  Leaf seems to imply that CH was killed by wights long ago.

Quote

 

A Dance with Dragons - Bran II

"They'll kill him."

"No. They killed him long ago. Come now. It is warmer down deep, and no one will hurt you there. He is waiting for you."

 

If CH is one of Bloodraven's rangers; this implies that the wights and White Walkers were making an appearance during BR's time as LC of the Watch.  Perhaps this was the reason that he himself went on a ranging.

Or is CH far older, killed by wights long, long ago?  How well does ice preserve?

Quite well in fact.

What are the Frostfangs?  Well, a mountain range far to the Northwest.  If the dead were buried, rather than burned are we looking at cave burials?   The location of such a place might well be known to the Wildlings.

So, I'm not quite ready to say that Coldhands was one of the Raven's Teeth.  His state of preservation can be explained in other ways. 

[Melifeather]

5 hours ago, EggBlue said:

yes , interesting but I wouldn't read to much into it...

another interesting bit:

 

I do not want anyone else to finish writing for GRRM. 

[Melifeather]

2 hours ago, LynnS said:

He was killed long ago according to Leaf.  But what does that mean to the COTF?

Words can have different meanings when the context is examined in a different light. When Leaf said Coldhands was killed long ago, it was in response to his safety, not his identity. 

Quote

 

A Dance with Dragons - Bran II

"He cannot come."

"They'll kill him."

"No. They killed him long ago. Come now. It is warmer down deep, and no one will hurt you there. He is waiting for you."

 

Taken in context, I don't believe Leaf is saying Coldhands has been dead for an extended period of time, but rather he cannot be killed, because you cannot kill what is already dead.

[LynnS]

27 minutes ago, Melifeather said:

Words can have different meanings when the context is examined in a different light. When Leaf said Coldhands was killed long ago, it was in response to his safety, not his identity. 

Taken in context, I don't believe Leaf is saying Coldhands has been dead for an extended period of time, but rather he cannot be killed, because you cannot kill what is already dead.

Yes, we learned a couple of things: that he was killed long ago and he can't pass the ward.  We may never know his identity but I'm hoping he makes another appearance in a Jon POV and we learn more.

I would still like to place his undeath into a specific time frame.  I wonder how he was killed.  He wears a scarf over his mouth and his voice rattles.  Was his throat cut?  That sounds like a sacrifice.  We know the Night King was sacrificing to the Others.  Was he sacrificing men of the Watch; those he couldn't bind to his will?.

 

[Melifeather]

13 minutes ago, LynnS said:

Yes, we learned a couple of things: that he was killed long ago and he can't pass the ward.  We may never know his identity but I'm hoping he makes another appearance in a Jon POV and we learn more.

I would still like to place his undeath into a specific time frame.  I wonder how he was killed.  He wears a scarf over his mouth and his voice rattles.  Was his throat cut?  That sounds like a sacrifice.  We know the Night King was sacrificing to the Others.  Was he sacrificing men of the Watch; those he couldn't bind to his will?.

 

My opinion on "who" Coldhands is changed when my understanding of the context changed. I DO think Coldhands is Benjen. Doesn't his scarf not only cover his neck, but partially cover the bottom of his face?