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Random Thoughts About ASOIAF


The Bard of Banefort
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15 minutes ago, LadyStoneHearte said:

Okay I've been thinking about his for awhile: How Ygritte and Jon's relationships started is objectively hilarious from her point of view. 

Her cultural practice is bride stealing. This is their marriage ceremony. Jon thinks they're enemies and is taking her hostage, but he is essentially participating in this bride stealing rite. So from her perspective, Jon basically proposes marriage, gets away with it (which we're told isn't always the case), and then... refuses to sleep with her for the longest time? And has an existential crises the whole time? Our cultural equivalent would be if someone met you at the alter, swore his marriage vows, and lived with you as a spouse all while fervently protesting they weren't going to marry you because of their honor, but still buying the ring, moving in with you, etc. I know we learn she was exasperated but she also must have been so confused. Like, you have this husband. And he's an awesome fighter, which is great (because you'd just slit his throat if he wasn't worthy),  young, hot, eventually amazing in bed, and a powerful warg. Cool, especially in a society where you're a spear wife and kissed by fire and probably everyone wants you. Yeah he's broody and a CROW, and a warg who doesn't seem to know what that is - which are all a problem - but he's literally living in her cultures version of a marriage while protesting he's not. She must have been SO CONFUSED. 

You’d probably come up with some pithy catch-phrase expressing his ignorance as a coping device.

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19 hours ago, LadyStoneHearte said:

Okay I've been thinking about his for awhile: How Ygritte and Jon's relationships started is objectively hilarious from her point of view. 

Her cultural practice is bride stealing. This is their marriage ceremony. Jon thinks they're enemies and is taking her hostage, but he is essentially participating in this bride stealing rite. So from her perspective, Jon basically proposes marriage, gets away with it (which we're told isn't always the case), and then... refuses to sleep with her for the longest time? And has an existential crises the whole time? Our cultural equivalent would be if someone met you at the alter, swore his marriage vows, and lived with you as a spouse all while fervently protesting they weren't going to marry you because of their honor, but still buying the ring, moving in with you, etc. I know we learn she was exasperated but she also must have been so confused. Like, you have this husband. And he's an awesome fighter, which is great (because you'd just slit his throat if he wasn't worthy),  young, hot, eventually amazing in bed, and a powerful warg. Cool, especially in a society where you're a spear wife and kissed by fire and probably everyone wants you. Yeah he's broody and a CROW, and a warg who doesn't seem to know what that is - which are all a problem - but he's literally living in her cultures version of a marriage while protesting he's not. She must have been SO CONFUSED. 

honestly , I had never thought about CONFUSED Ygritte and neglectful Jon! but that does seem about right from her perspective! lol 

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On 5/24/2022 at 5:17 PM, EggBlue said:

honestly , I had never thought about CONFUSED Ygritte and neglectful Jon! but that does seem about right from her perspective! lol 

 

On 5/23/2022 at 9:19 PM, LadyStoneHearte said:

Okay I've been thinking about his for awhile: How Ygritte and Jon's relationships started is objectively hilarious from her point of view. 

Her cultural practice is bride stealing. This is their marriage ceremony. Jon thinks they're enemies and is taking her hostage, but he is essentially participating in this bride stealing rite. So from her perspective, Jon basically proposes marriage, gets away with it (which we're told isn't always the case), and then... refuses to sleep with her for the longest time? And has an existential crises the whole time? Our cultural equivalent would be if someone met you at the alter, swore his marriage vows, and lived with you as a spouse all while fervently protesting they weren't going to marry you because of their honor, but still buying the ring, moving in with you, etc. I know we learn she was exasperated but she also must have been so confused. Like, you have this husband. And he's an awesome fighter, which is great (because you'd just slit his throat if he wasn't worthy),  young, hot, eventually amazing in bed, and a powerful warg. Cool, especially in a society where you're a spear wife and kissed by fire and probably everyone wants you. Yeah he's broody and a CROW, and a warg who doesn't seem to know what that is - which are all a problem - but he's literally living in her cultures version of a marriage while protesting he's not. She must have been SO CONFUSED. 

Exactly.

At some point, she must have tried to content herself with the conclusion that he was an out-and-out idiot...which explains the constant "you know nothing, Jon Snow"

Even so...she then dies in his arms. So, her dying thoughts must have been "WTF, I'm so confused."

 

On a more serious note, I think that the show did a much better job illustrating Ygritte's conflicted and confused point-of-view than the book.

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1 hour ago, BlackLightning said:

On a more serious note, I think that the show did a much better job illustrating Ygritte's conflicted and confused point-of-view than the book.

yes, they did. but what the show lacked was what Jon did not like/understand in wildling culture and his inner conflict when it came to him and Ygritte , what he thought about wildlings and NW , etc. which was shown pretty well in the chapter that after completely warming up to Ygritte and the others ,they talk and he goes further in his identity crisis when he thinks how different they are , before deciding he is definitely a man of NW in the next chapter I believe (and seeing Sword of the Morning by the way!)   . the way wildlings were depicted in the show , you'd think they were complete victims of NW that's been totally oppressed by Westeros without any moral justification. while in the books although wildlings are an oppressed nation , after forgetting whatever happened some thousands yrs ago, NW had good reason to consider themselves noble and gallant for protecting the realm against them . they were a militant , quarrelsome , women stealing lot in the books , whereas they were a democratic nation with gender equality (although you'd see canbial Thenn of all houses among them!) . 

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On 5/22/2022 at 3:53 PM, The Bard of Banefort said:

Maybe @Ran could provide some insight? Do certain smallfolk have last names?

It all depends on how far people travel.  Surnames became common among the lower classes after 1350, in England, after the population became more mobile.  The Black Death caused lords to bid for labour, so people left their manors.

Instead of just being John, you might be called Jon de Baldock, if that’s where you came from, to distinguish you from other Jon’s.  Or Jon Smith, if that was your occupation.  Or Jon Jonson, if that was your father’s name. 

Edited by SeanF
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We know that Shireen will be burned at the stake, but we don’t know who will do it, or why.  The assumption is that Stannis will order it, but he is hundreds of miles away.

I’d like to flag the possibility that Jon Snow will order it, on Melisandre’s urging, when the Others breach the Wall.  Jon was willing to torment Gilly with flame, and promised to burn her child, unless she agreed the baby swap.  He also comments internally that he would kill child hostages if he had to.  A resurrected Jon would be be more ruthless, willing to do whatever is necessary to defeat the Others.

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How come that the whole of Westeros speaks only one language? Like, shouldn't a continent of that size have more variants? Yes, the Andals brought their language with them when the conquered the South but that was millenia ago and did not extent to the North and the Iron Islands and certainly not to the Lands beyond the Wall. So why does everyone speak Common? I mean, Germany and France don't have the same language either and all that seperates those countries is a river, instead of the 1500+ miles between Dorne and the North. 

It would make a lot more sense if there were three or four (maybe more) different languages strone across the continent, with some overlap in the border regions. Particularly since some of the kingdoms are fairly isolated. Dorne is cut of from the Stromlands and the Reach by the Red Mountains. The Vale has the Mountains of the Moon and the North has the Neck. Even if all the kingdoms had at one point spoken just one language, it should have evolved into different variants over the several millenia we know Westeros has been inhabited. 

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12 hours ago, Hugorfonics said:

Reek Reek, it rhymes with (insert English word here)

Ok, now I'm type curious. In translated versions of ADWD what words does Theon rhyme with?

Had to look it up briefly, but in the German version, he is called Stinker. His rhyme is: Stinker, mein Name ist Stinker, das kommt von stinken, und das reimt sich auf winken. (Stinker, my name is Stinker, it comes from stinking and that rhymes with waving.)

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On 6/10/2022 at 10:00 AM, Lady Misery said:

Had to look it up briefly, but in the German version, he is called Stinker. His rhyme is: Stinker, mein Name ist Stinker, das kommt von stinken, und das reimt sich auf winken. (Stinker, my name is Stinker, it comes from stinking and that rhymes with waving.)

There have to be several words it rhymes with, though.

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