Random Thoughts About ASOIAF

[Takiedevushkikakzvezdy]

1 hour ago, Groo said:

I think it was the Orphans of the Greenblood. Garin worked with the orphans to arrange for the boat to be waiting for them on the Greenblood.

I don't think so. Garin was punished for his involvement in the plot and most other Orphans probably don't have the authority to speak to Doran. 

 

3 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

But why would she rat out Arianne? What’s the motive?

Tyene wants revenge for Oberyn. Arianne starting a war with the Lannisters would have an uncertain outcome. If the Lannisters win, Tyene herself might perish. If Dorne wins it will take a long time and the Lannister line continues through Myrcella. Stealth is a quick and foolproof way to take out all the Lannisters.

[The Bard of Banefort]

1 hour ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

I don't think so. Garin was punished for his involvement in the plot and most other Orphans probably don't have the authority to speak to Doran. 

 

Tyene wants revenge for Oberyn. Arianne starting a war with the Lannisters would have an uncertain outcome. If the Lannisters win, Tyene herself might perish. If Dorne wins it will take a long time and the Lannister line continues through Myrcella. Stealth is a quick and foolproof way to take out all the Lannisters.

But couldn’t she have just told Arianne that? Arianne never mentions Tyene objecting to her plot.

[Groo]

2 hours ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

I don't think so. Garin was punished for his involvement in the plot and most other Orphans probably don't have the authority to speak to Doran.

I think Doran is much more in control and connected to what happens in Dorne than people give him credit for. As readers, we keep getting hit over the head by the Sand Snakes' and Arianne's unfavorable impressions of Doran and his rule. But look at what goes on without filtering it through their perspectives. Doran has the Yronwood's neck deep in the Quentyn plot but there's surprisingly little rumor or gossip floating around about it. Doran wants Balon Swann delayed and his bannermen quickly make that happen. Arianne's plot falls apart and Doran has no problem having the sons and daughters of bannermen quickly punished. For long stretches of the story Doran has had large numbers of troops gathered and assembled along the border with no pushback that we're aware of from his bannermen. That kind of effective control of your domain isn't possible unless you're closely tuned in to and informed about what goes on in your lands. I don't think some orphan needed to directly speak to Doran for word to get to him.

[Takiedevushkikakzvezdy]

13 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

But couldn’t she have just told Arianne that? Arianne never mentions Tyene objecting to her plot.

Arianne's and Tyene's objectives don't match. Tyene wants death for all Lannisters as revenge, while Arianne doesn't. She thinks Doran sidelined her, and wants Myrcella on the throne so she can get Dorne with her help.

Plus, deception is Tyene's entire shtick. She pretends to be innocent while being anything but, as we've seen in the Captain of the Guards chapter. We are reminded every 10 seconds that Arianne and Tyene are besties and she is the only one Arianne doesn't even remotely suspect, so...

Edited April 15, 2022 by Takiedevushkikakzvezdy

[James Arryn]

What did Stannis chop off himself for receiving smuggled goods?

[Groo]

On 3/27/2022 at 11:56 PM, The Bard of Banefort said:

Here’s another meta one: we all know there are parts of this fandom that care more about plot twists than themes and who have a theory for why everything written on the page is actually a misdirection for something much more convoluted

I'm always mystified by people who want to twist the story into anything but what they're actually reading. The main series is roughly 5,000 pages long. It has 158 Stark POV chapters, 76 Lannister POV chapters, 31 Daenerys POV chapters, and 21 Greyjoy POV chapters. That's who the story is about. Yet some people will grab a few random sentences and build some elaborate theory about why the story is really about some other incredibly minor characters.

The only thing I find harder to understand is the seeming masochists who intensely dislike most of the characters. If you hate the Starks then why are you reading all of this? It's like reading all the Harry Potter books just so you can write a 3,000 word essay about how much you despise Harry, Ron, and Hermione. 

[The Young Maester]

1 hour ago, Groo said:

The only thing I find harder to understand is the seeming masochists who intensely dislike most of the characters. If you hate the Starks then why are you reading all of this? It's like reading all the Harry Potter books just so you can write a 3,000 word essay about how much you despise Harry, Ron, and Hermione.

I’ve asked myself the same question. But I can never figure it out.

[EggBlue]

1 hour ago, Groo said:

I'm always mystified by people who want to twist the story into anything but what they're actually reading. The main series is roughly 5,000 pages long. It has 158 Stark POV chapters, 76 Lannister POV chapters, 31 Daenerys POV chapters, and 21 Greyjoy POV chapters. That's who the story is about. Yet some people will grab a few random sentences and build some elaborate theory about why the story is really about some other incredibly minor characters.

how have you missed the conflict between Patchface, Moonboy and Old Nan?... you know , the puppet masters of Baratheon , Lannister and Stark courts...

" Unbeknownst to all, it was the jester who ruled them now, an invisible king in motley"

[Groo]

1 hour ago, EggBlue said:

how have you missed the conflict between Patchface, Moonboy and Old Nan?... you know , the puppet masters of Baratheon , Lannister and Stark courts...

I feel like a fool for having missed that.

[BlackLightning]

On 4/14/2022 at 3:44 PM, The Bard of Banefort said:

I think people are underrating the likelihood that Jon comes back as a very cold and unlikable character. Maybe he’ll be “badass” in the sense that he’ll inherit some of Ghost’s wolfishness, but he was just mutinied by his own men, and has failed to save his “sister” from Ramsay. I suspect that he’ll be very harsh and bitter. This would also make sense for if he does kill Dany—by making Jon less human, it subverts the very icky idea that men need to kill their women to save them from themselves. (Of course, I’m not sure how a love story would even work between them in this scenario. Maybe that’s another one of the books’ hurdles).

It'll probably be one-sided or enshrouded in mystery.

Since Dany is almost certainly going to be POV until the very end (and probably die in her own chapter) and Jon won't have any more POVs (particularly not after he is restored to his own body), I think the big part of her arc in "A Dream of Spring" is falling in love and trying to find out if Jon really loves her as much as he says he does (or as much as she hopes he does).

Which, given the likelihood of Jon murdering her, is tragic.

 

[Takiedevushkikakzvezdy]

5 hours ago, James Arryn said:

What did Stannis chop off himself for receiving smuggled goods?

He wrote himself a strongly worded letter, probably.

[EggBlue]

13 minutes ago, BlackLightning said:

It'll probably be one-sided or enshrouded in mystery.

Since Dany is almost certainly going to be POV until the very end (and probably die in her own chapter) and Jon won't have any more POVs (particularly not after he is restored to his own body), I think the big part of her arc in "A Dream of Spring" is falling in love and trying to find out if Jon really loves her as much as he says he does (or as much as she hopes he does).

Which, given the likelihood of Jon murdering her, is tragic.

 

I really don't know what to make of Jon/Dany romance .. yes, it was on the show but neither their romance nor the notorious stabbing were any of the 3 big spoilers . then looking at the characters, they are not really each others' type :

Dany is into dangerous bad boys (something that unfortunately might drawn her towards Euron before realizing he is a psychopath) . in my opinion , even a cold badass Jon will probably be more of a solemn Allaric Stark than Dany's type of man . meanwhile, Jon likes the warrior tough girls. granted, Dragonlord Dany could be counted as a warrior queen and she isn't ladylike enough to sit a court without throwing her sandals away , but still, on the surface she is the girly girl type that Jon hasn't shown any interest in before . even if Jon kills Daenerys at the end , I doubt there will be a relationship between them . besides, I find it possible that these two characters never properly meet at all . especially that in their dreams Jon fights the wights with a burning sword on the Wall and Dany fights the Others on Drogon's back at the Trident. 

[The Bard of Banefort]

More randomness: does anyone else think the name Clegane is a little out of place in this story? It sounds French. Most of the surnames in this series sound English, or very deliberately fantasy (e.g. Targaryen, Greyjoy). I guess you could say the same thing about Martell sounding Spanish, but Dorne is clearly influenced by Spain/the Mediterranean.

[James Arryn]

53 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

More randomness: does anyone else think the name Clegane is a little out of place in this story? It sounds French. Most of the surnames in this series sound English, or very deliberately fantasy (e.g. Targaryen, Greyjoy). I guess you could say the same thing about Martell sounding Spanish, but Dorne is clearly influenced by Spain/the Mediterranean.

I think it sounds VERY Scottish. 

[The Bard of Banefort]

10 minutes ago, James Arryn said:

I think it sounds VERY Scottish. 

Hmm maybe? But it does sound different, doesn’t it?

[Takiedevushkikakzvezdy]

Have we ever gotten an explanation on why the must always be a Stark at Winterfell?

[The Bard of Banefort]

5 minutes ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

Have we ever gotten an explanation on why the must always be a Stark at Winterfell?

Not yet

[James Arryn]

1 hour ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Hmm maybe? But it does sound different, doesn’t it?

To me it’s of the same ~ sound as, going alphabetically; Bethune, Brisbane, Clephane, Clelland, Cochrane, Erskine, Galbraith, Gardyne, Haldane, Kincaid, etc. 

[The Bard of Banefort]

21 minutes ago, James Arryn said:

To me it’s of the same ~ sound as, going alphabetically; Bethune, Brisbane, Clephane, Clelland, Cochrane, Erskine, Galbraith, Gardyne, Haldane, Kincaid, etc. 

I meant different from the other ASOIAF surnames. 

[Jaenara Belarys]

3 hours ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

Have we ever gotten an explanation on why the must always be a Stark at Winterfell?

Some sort of magic, perhaps? Or it's just saying that you have to always have a ruler in the North's seat of power.