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Random Thoughts About ASOIAF


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32 minutes ago, Ran said:

There are those who would say that any book that's comfortable to read is probably not worth reading.

I mean, we’d still have all the murder and rape and incest and torture and pyromania, right? So it’s not like ASOIAF would be lacking for disturbing content.

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6 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Maybe someone close to GRRM should mention it to him *ahem* ::eyes a certain mod:: 

Possibly it would be a more efficient method to simply treat it as headcanon......without the stress of waiting even more for a reply. I'm sure GRRM is busy, and I'm not keen on being as stressed as Admiral Piett. 

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Posted (edited)

I don't remember if HBO's still working on Dunk and Egg project but imagine it does... then HBO will have three Targ projects with three Targ heros... and how depressing is that?!... Daenerys snaps into madness and is killed by her nephew, Rhaenyra gets depressed and is torched by her brother and Egg burns down himself and almost his entire family... 

Edited by EggBlue
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4 hours ago, EggBlue said:

I don't remember if HBO's still working on Dunk and Egg project but imagine it does... then HBO will have three Targ projects with three Targ heros... and how depressing is that?!... Daenerys snaps into madness and is killed by her nephew, Rhaenyra gets depressed and is torched by her brother and Egg burns down himself and almost his entire family... 

Yeah, I don’t think they’re going to be able to do another Targaryen show after HOTD, at least not for a while. Fatigue is going to set in, especially when all the main characters look the same. If the main series is ever finished, I assume HBO will do a reboot of GOT, but that means the books would have to be finished first. . . 

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are we sure none of them have last name? I mean if no one has a last name among smallfolk why would commoner bastards (like ser Rolly) without noble blood should have bastard last names? 

ps. Janos Slint has a last name too and unlike Clegane or Seaworth , it doesn't seem like a proper name he had chosen later in life...

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2 minutes ago, EggBlue said:

are we sure none of them have last name? I mean if no one has a last name among smallfolk why would commoner bastards (like ser Rolly) without noble blood should have bastard last names? 

ps. Janos Slint has a last name too and unlike Clegane or Seaworth , it doesn't seem like a proper name he had chosen later in life...

Maybe @Ran could provide some insight? Do certain smallfolk have last names?

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7 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Maybe @Ran could provide some insight? Do certain smallfolk have last names?

While ordinary peasants don't have last names, I would expect those with a business, other property, and professionals to have family names, like Tobho Mott.  Easier to keep track of stuff that way.  Where the names would come from, I have no idea. 

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Okay I've been thinking about his for awhile: How Ygritte and Jon's relationships started is objectively hilarious from her point of view. 

Her cultural practice is bride stealing. This is their marriage ceremony. Jon thinks they're enemies and is taking her hostage, but he is essentially participating in this bride stealing rite. So from her perspective, Jon basically proposes marriage, gets away with it (which we're told isn't always the case), and then... refuses to sleep with her for the longest time? And has an existential crises the whole time? Our cultural equivalent would be if someone met you at the alter, swore his marriage vows, and lived with you as a spouse all while fervently protesting they weren't going to marry you because of their honor, but still buying the ring, moving in with you, etc. I know we learn she was exasperated but she also must have been so confused. Like, you have this husband. And he's an awesome fighter, which is great (because you'd just slit his throat if he wasn't worthy),  young, hot, eventually amazing in bed, and a powerful warg. Cool, especially in a society where you're a spear wife and kissed by fire and probably everyone wants you. Yeah he's broody and a CROW, and a warg who doesn't seem to know what that is - which are all a problem - but he's literally living in her cultures version of a marriage while protesting he's not. She must have been SO CONFUSED. 

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15 minutes ago, LadyStoneHearte said:

Okay I've been thinking about his for awhile: How Ygritte and Jon's relationships started is objectively hilarious from her point of view. 

Her cultural practice is bride stealing. This is their marriage ceremony. Jon thinks they're enemies and is taking her hostage, but he is essentially participating in this bride stealing rite. So from her perspective, Jon basically proposes marriage, gets away with it (which we're told isn't always the case), and then... refuses to sleep with her for the longest time? And has an existential crises the whole time? Our cultural equivalent would be if someone met you at the alter, swore his marriage vows, and lived with you as a spouse all while fervently protesting they weren't going to marry you because of their honor, but still buying the ring, moving in with you, etc. I know we learn she was exasperated but she also must have been so confused. Like, you have this husband. And he's an awesome fighter, which is great (because you'd just slit his throat if he wasn't worthy),  young, hot, eventually amazing in bed, and a powerful warg. Cool, especially in a society where you're a spear wife and kissed by fire and probably everyone wants you. Yeah he's broody and a CROW, and a warg who doesn't seem to know what that is - which are all a problem - but he's literally living in her cultures version of a marriage while protesting he's not. She must have been SO CONFUSED. 

You’d probably come up with some pithy catch-phrase expressing his ignorance as a coping device.

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19 hours ago, LadyStoneHearte said:

Okay I've been thinking about his for awhile: How Ygritte and Jon's relationships started is objectively hilarious from her point of view. 

Her cultural practice is bride stealing. This is their marriage ceremony. Jon thinks they're enemies and is taking her hostage, but he is essentially participating in this bride stealing rite. So from her perspective, Jon basically proposes marriage, gets away with it (which we're told isn't always the case), and then... refuses to sleep with her for the longest time? And has an existential crises the whole time? Our cultural equivalent would be if someone met you at the alter, swore his marriage vows, and lived with you as a spouse all while fervently protesting they weren't going to marry you because of their honor, but still buying the ring, moving in with you, etc. I know we learn she was exasperated but she also must have been so confused. Like, you have this husband. And he's an awesome fighter, which is great (because you'd just slit his throat if he wasn't worthy),  young, hot, eventually amazing in bed, and a powerful warg. Cool, especially in a society where you're a spear wife and kissed by fire and probably everyone wants you. Yeah he's broody and a CROW, and a warg who doesn't seem to know what that is - which are all a problem - but he's literally living in her cultures version of a marriage while protesting he's not. She must have been SO CONFUSED. 

honestly , I had never thought about CONFUSED Ygritte and neglectful Jon! but that does seem about right from her perspective! lol 

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On 5/24/2022 at 5:17 PM, EggBlue said:

honestly , I had never thought about CONFUSED Ygritte and neglectful Jon! but that does seem about right from her perspective! lol 

 

On 5/23/2022 at 9:19 PM, LadyStoneHearte said:

Okay I've been thinking about his for awhile: How Ygritte and Jon's relationships started is objectively hilarious from her point of view. 

Her cultural practice is bride stealing. This is their marriage ceremony. Jon thinks they're enemies and is taking her hostage, but he is essentially participating in this bride stealing rite. So from her perspective, Jon basically proposes marriage, gets away with it (which we're told isn't always the case), and then... refuses to sleep with her for the longest time? And has an existential crises the whole time? Our cultural equivalent would be if someone met you at the alter, swore his marriage vows, and lived with you as a spouse all while fervently protesting they weren't going to marry you because of their honor, but still buying the ring, moving in with you, etc. I know we learn she was exasperated but she also must have been so confused. Like, you have this husband. And he's an awesome fighter, which is great (because you'd just slit his throat if he wasn't worthy),  young, hot, eventually amazing in bed, and a powerful warg. Cool, especially in a society where you're a spear wife and kissed by fire and probably everyone wants you. Yeah he's broody and a CROW, and a warg who doesn't seem to know what that is - which are all a problem - but he's literally living in her cultures version of a marriage while protesting he's not. She must have been SO CONFUSED. 

Exactly.

At some point, she must have tried to content herself with the conclusion that he was an out-and-out idiot...which explains the constant "you know nothing, Jon Snow"

Even so...she then dies in his arms. So, her dying thoughts must have been "WTF, I'm so confused."

 

On a more serious note, I think that the show did a much better job illustrating Ygritte's conflicted and confused point-of-view than the book.

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1 hour ago, BlackLightning said:

On a more serious note, I think that the show did a much better job illustrating Ygritte's conflicted and confused point-of-view than the book.

yes, they did. but what the show lacked was what Jon did not like/understand in wildling culture and his inner conflict when it came to him and Ygritte , what he thought about wildlings and NW , etc. which was shown pretty well in the chapter that after completely warming up to Ygritte and the others ,they talk and he goes further in his identity crisis when he thinks how different they are , before deciding he is definitely a man of NW in the next chapter I believe (and seeing Sword of the Morning by the way!)   . the way wildlings were depicted in the show , you'd think they were complete victims of NW that's been totally oppressed by Westeros without any moral justification. while in the books although wildlings are an oppressed nation , after forgetting whatever happened some thousands yrs ago, NW had good reason to consider themselves noble and gallant for protecting the realm against them . they were a militant , quarrelsome , women stealing lot in the books , whereas they were a democratic nation with gender equality (although you'd see canbial Thenn of all houses among them!) . 

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Posted (edited)
On 5/22/2022 at 3:53 PM, The Bard of Banefort said:

Maybe @Ran could provide some insight? Do certain smallfolk have last names?

It all depends on how far people travel.  Surnames became common among the lower classes after 1350, in England, after the population became more mobile.  The Black Death caused lords to bid for labour, so people left their manors.

Instead of just being John, you might be called Jon de Baldock, if that’s where you came from, to distinguish you from other Jon’s.  Or Jon Smith, if that was your occupation.  Or Jon Jonson, if that was your father’s name. 

Edited by SeanF
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We know that Shireen will be burned at the stake, but we don’t know who will do it, or why.  The assumption is that Stannis will order it, but he is hundreds of miles away.

I’d like to flag the possibility that Jon Snow will order it, on Melisandre’s urging, when the Others breach the Wall.  Jon was willing to torment Gilly with flame, and promised to burn her child, unless she agreed the baby swap.  He also comments internally that he would kill child hostages if he had to.  A resurrected Jon would be be more ruthless, willing to do whatever is necessary to defeat the Others.

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How come that the whole of Westeros speaks only one language? Like, shouldn't a continent of that size have more variants? Yes, the Andals brought their language with them when the conquered the South but that was millenia ago and did not extent to the North and the Iron Islands and certainly not to the Lands beyond the Wall. So why does everyone speak Common? I mean, Germany and France don't have the same language either and all that seperates those countries is a river, instead of the 1500+ miles between Dorne and the North. 

It would make a lot more sense if there were three or four (maybe more) different languages strone across the continent, with some overlap in the border regions. Particularly since some of the kingdoms are fairly isolated. Dorne is cut of from the Stromlands and the Reach by the Red Mountains. The Vale has the Mountains of the Moon and the North has the Neck. Even if all the kingdoms had at one point spoken just one language, it should have evolved into different variants over the several millenia we know Westeros has been inhabited. 

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